The Spanish AI has infinite political power. It may be\have a bug, or two with this

[sonjingohan]

The Spanish AI has infinite political power. I have been trying to do the NoBody Expects achievement!

1.) Been working on this for 3 weeks now, on elite. I was Spain, I was Fascist, and I was in the Axis. IT did not pop... why?

I was attacking with one group in one army, I had the land I got from Germany, and taking it myself, the Germany lands was not touching Paris I attached I helped attach it, then the Germany troops left, and attach somewhere else, and I took Paris, and the game glitched out for a sec. then gave Germany everything I had to Germany, and the achievement did not pop!
I am new, it will take me a long time to learn to play games like this, but when I get raw dogged by a game, I don't want to support it ever again!

2.) So, I got sick and tired, really pissed off, because of the Spanish civil war. The Republicans somehow know where I got points, and how many, they always stop me from getting 3 check marks on all but one state, because they know where, and how many I got, and because I run out of political power.

This is what happens when I get closes to having more than one state in my favor!
A.) The civil war will start early, sometimes, (but not too often) when there are over 60 days left! Mostly 30, or less, when this happens!
B.) They will add more days to the count down, and then it will start as soon as I lose one of the states! (Again, if I own more than one state)
C.) If own One state, and have 1, or 2 check marks in a lot of others it will start as normal!

So, I thought to myself, if keep running out political power, and losing the states I want, I will only use my political power to take control of the states I want! Well, I did that a few times and some crazy stuff happened...

This is how I found out they had infinite political power; they were doing all the events and decisions non-stop the whole time, while I had to wait for my political power to build up, they were just undoing my check marks, and doing events and decisions, I set there and watched the game CHEAT me out of everything, then I would click on one after that wand they would almost instantly start erasing the check mark I just did!
This needs to be fixed, I was having fun with this game, up to the points I found out it was literally cheating me out of the victory I was going to have.
To all those who say games don't cheat, well play this on elite, and Ironman, and we will see you singing a different turn! Also, that is what cheating is, doing something that others, can't do, or is outside the rules of the game!

Thank you for the help! And please put this in the bugs, if you know how, because I don't understand it at all!

 

[Fargel Linellar]

First, do you know that by playing on Elite, you are making the AI receive cheat?
If you hover all difficulty, you will see the details of what it changes. In short in the easiest difficulty, the player get cheat, on the hardest the AI get cheat. On Normal no one get bonus, all play by the same rules.

So if you want the AI to play with the same rule, play on Normal, not Elite. Don't pick a difficulty which entire point is to give bonus to the AIs.

1. Don't understand your question...

2.
You both can see exactly what the other Spain is doing, you can see which garrison they are trying to influence (and they can see which one you are influencing).

A)
Which focus was Republican Spain doing?
There's 2 way the civil war start:
The timer reach 0*
Republican Spain finish the focus "Disband the army"

As Nationalist Spain, your goal is to make the civil war start due to the timer. The earlier you can do it, the more of the Army will be on your side.
Each focus the Republican Spain is doing will help them.
If the other Spain reach "Disband the army", then you are quite deep in problem. They will get 80% of the equipment from the army and will have probably more units than you.

B) Yes, they will add more days to the countdown, this is the point.
Nationalist decisions REMOVE days from the countdown
Republican decisions ADD days to the countdown

C)
At the start all states are fully owned by the republican, you have some focuses that give you all 3 points for some nothern states.
For all others states, you need to influence the garrison with the decisions.


The way the prelude to the civil war work is that most of your early focus give you PP, while republican get their PP at the end of the focus.

As nationalist you have to try to prevent the republican from reaching those focuses.


You should not be spending all your political power on controlling the states. It is much more important to select the decision that remove days from the counter.
The faster the civil war, the less advantages the republican will have.

PS: the cost of influencing garrison is not the same depending on how many you already have. It is more expensive for the 1st one than the other. In short it is easier for Republican to "Defend" some states as it cost you more PP to get the 1st check mark than it cost them to remove it.

 

[sonjingohan]

First, do you know that by playing on Elite, you are making the AI receive cheat?
If you hover all difficulty, you will see the details of what it changes. In short in the easiest difficulty, the player get cheat, on the hardest the AI get cheat. On Normal no one get bonus, all play by the same rules.

So if you want the AI to play with the same rule, play on Normal, not Elite. Don't pick a difficulty which entire point is to give bonus to the AIs.

1. Don't understand your question...

2.
You both can see exactly what the other Spain is doing, you can see which garrison they are trying to influence (and they can see which one you are influencing).

A)
Which focus was Republican Spain doing?
There's 2 way the civil war start:
The timer reach 0*
Republican Spain finish the focus "Disband the army"

As Nationalist Spain, your goal is to make the civil war start due to the timer. The earlier you can do it, the more of the Army will be on your side.
Each focus the Republican Spain is doing will help them.
If the other Spain reach "Disband the army", then you are quite deep in problem. They will get 80% of the equipment from the army and will have probably more units than you.

B) Yes, they will add more days to the countdown, this is the point.
Nationalist decisions REMOVE days from the countdown
Republican decisions ADD days to the countdown

C)
At the start all states are fully owned by the republican, you have some focuses that give you all 3 points for some nothern states.
For all others states, you need to influence the garrison with the decisions.


The way the prelude to the civil war work is that most of your early focus give you PP, while republican get their PP at the end of the focus.

As nationalist you have to try to prevent the republican from reaching those focuses.


You should not be spending all your political power on controlling the states. It is much more important to select the decision that remove days from the counter.
The faster the civil war, the less advantages the republican will have.

PS: the cost of influencing garrison is not the same depending on how many you already have. It is more expensive for the 1st one than the other. In short it is easier for Republican to "Defend" some states as it cost you more PP to get the 1st check mark than it cost them to remove it.

Yes, but it does it on regular and a guy has it on video!
Yes, it mostly hinders the player!
Yes, I know all this, but the AI gets infante Political Power on normal as well. The video here this guy doesn't play on elite (

) Name of video (HOI4 Guide: Nobody Expects) Name of channel (Bubbles Zest)

1.) I did pull it off one time, and it didn't give me the achievement I was going for! (Nobody Expects) And I did what it said, and it did not pop why?

2.) I can only see when they erase my checks, I do not see them working on any other stuff, they just get almost everything!

A.) I don't know, it just says it is working on one.
Yes, I know, and no matter which one I pick, they get everything!
Something, the timer doesn't it just starts, and sometimes, it hits 0 and then it adds time like I said!
Every time I have played it always starts the same, it also gives me Nationalist 25-Republican 65 this is how it always is!
I know nothing about that, they always have me on the ropes, tell late 1938, by then I can't prep enough to kill France.

B.) Ok, thank you for clearing that up, I was wondering why that was happening!

C.) I know, but that is what this post is about! They keep me from getting 2 full states, I only get 2 full states very few times, because of what I said, I run out of Political Power, and they always take away a check from a state where I have 3 checks!

Yes, I know... But the problem is I run out of Political Power, and they don't! I will record a video, so you can see how I have been doing it!
How do I do this? ("Prevent the republican from reaching those focuses")
Then I will start with 3 states!

I know, but I have to keep buying it, in hope of getting the states, otherwise I am screwed. I will do a few playthroughs and record a video, to show what happens. Because it is crazy!
Edit: 12:36 PM Thursday, November 3. In video, I think it is around 1:57 in.

 

[Herennius]

I doubt that the AI gets infinte PP on normal - if they would, there would be no problems with them sometimes not taking decisions because of lacking PP.

 

[Dryhad]

Here's the secret about the Spanish Civil War setup: It's a cheat. There is no AI. It's just a bunch of missions that trigger periodically that claim to be actions that "the other side" is taking. But there is no other side, not until the war actually starts. There is no AI that is choosing which garrisons to contest or what decisions to take or even whether to sway the Guardia de Asalto or Guardia Civil (no AI more sophisticated than a coinflip at least). So BubblesZest thinks that Paradox has mistakenly given this AI infinite PP, but there is no PP and there is no AI. It's just a potemkin village to trick the player into thinking there is an AI player working against them, and as such "Just give them a PP pool" isn't a workable fix. It would require completely rewiring the whole mechanic, I suspect at the cost of game performance (it's a new thing to check, that needs to be checked near constantly) and rewiring would assuredly introduce a whole raft of new bugs because rewiring anything in this game (even things markedly less complicated than the Spanish Civil War) introduces new bugs. I suggest leaving well enough alone.

 

[Arheo]

Here's the secret about the Spanish Civil War setup: It's a cheat. There is no AI. It's just a bunch of missions that trigger periodically that claim to be actions that "the other side" is taking. But there is no other side, not until the war actually starts. There is no AI that is choosing which garrisons to contest or what decisions to take or even whether to sway the Guardia de Asalto or Guardia Civil (no AI more sophisticated than a coinflip at least). So BubblesZest thinks that Paradox has mistakenly given this AI infinite PP, but there is no PP and there is no AI. It's just a potemkin village to trick the player into thinking there is an AI player working against them, and as such "Just give them a PP pool" isn't a workable fix. It would require completely rewiring the whole mechanic, I suspect at the cost of game performance (it's a new thing to check, that needs to be checked near constantly) and rewiring would assuredly introduce a whole raft of new bugs because rewiring anything in this game (even things markedly less complicated than the Spanish Civil War) introduces new bugs. I suggest leaving well enough alone.

Pretty much this. At the end of the day, I don't have a problem with smoke and mirrors as a design philosophy; the goal is still the same. You try and optimize your own focuses to do as well as you can in the time you have. The SCW is supposed to be inevitable.

 

[Harin]

Thanks @sonjingohan for bringing this up. Your thread has been very helpful to get a solid answer. I suspect there are many of us, including myself, who did not know. Also, thanks @Dryhad and Arheo for the detailed explanation and the confirmation.

 

[Maxwell Tornado]

Pretty much this. At the end of the day, I don't have a problem with smoke and mirrors as a design philosophy; the goal is still the same. You try and optimize your own focuses to do as well as you can in the time you have. The SCW is supposed to be inevitable.

What I have a problem with is that this makes it impossible to reach a historical civil war setup. No matter what I do, I can pretty much only manage like 6 garrisons, which is enough for 2 states, when historically, Franco managed 3 (apart from the Northern garrisons). And except on exceedingly lucky days, those 6 garrisons are spread across 3 states, meaning I usually only get 1 states that remains a core after the civil war is done.

And I really don't get that last little quip. What kinda strawman is that? Nobody advocated for a way to circumvent the war.

 

[sonjingohan]

I doubt that the AI gets infinte PP on normal - if they would, there would be no problems with them sometimes not taking decisions because of lacking PP.

Go watch the video. Like I said that guy only plays on normal.

 

[sonjingohan]

Here's the secret about the Spanish Civil War setup: It's a cheat. There is no AI. It's just a bunch of missions that trigger periodically that claim to be actions that "the other side" is taking. But there is no other side, not until the war actually starts. There is no AI that is choosing which garrisons to contest or what decisions to take or even whether to sway the Guardia de Asalto or Guardia Civil (no AI more sophisticated than a coinflip at least). So BubblesZest thinks that Paradox has mistakenly given this AI infinite PP, but there is no PP and there is no AI. It's just a potemkin village to trick the player into thinking there is an AI player working against them, and as such "Just give them a PP pool" isn't a workable fix. It would require completely rewiring the whole mechanic, I suspect at the cost of game performance (it's a new thing to check, that needs to be checked near constantly) and rewiring would assuredly introduce a whole raft of new bugs because rewiring anything in this game (even things markedly less complicated than the Spanish Civil War) introduces new bugs. I suggest leaving well enough alone.

First, stop lying about what I said! I did not say he thinks it has! Where did I say he thinks this here? ("Yes, I know all this, but the AI gets infante Political Power on normal as well. The video here this guy doesn't play on elite") I have not edited anything, sense you posted!

If an AI is not doing anything, then what is causing the points to be put on what, and what is causing whatever to do whatever on different playthroughs? Sense it is not an AI!

It would have to be, because the game on the Spanish front would be broken if you could not complete it on every mode bro.!

I just want it fixed, because it doesn't matter what I try it doesn't work! I did some hard ones already, and only spent a few days on them, and they are way harder than this one!

 

[sonjingohan]

Pretty much this. At the end of the day, I don't have a problem with smoke and mirrors as a design philosophy; the goal is still the same. You try and optimize your own focuses to do as well as you can in the time you have. The SCW is supposed to be inevitable.

So, it is a flat-out cheat, and there is nothing we can do, so the elite playthrough for the Spanish is broken? And can never be done?

 

[sonjingohan]

Thanks @sonjingohan for bringing this up. Your thread has been very helpful to get a solid answer. I suspect there are many of us, including myself, who did not know. Also, thanks @Dryhad and Arheo for the detailed explanation and the confirmation.

No problem, if you can find a way to do this on elite, please let me know, because I have tried everything I could, and the closet I got, Germany got it anyway!

 

[sonjingohan]

What I have a problem with is that this makes it impossible to reach a historical civil war setup. No matter what I do, I can pretty much only manage like 6 garrisons, which is enough for 2 states, when historically, Franco managed 3 (apart from the Northern garrisons). And except on exceedingly lucky days, those 6 garrisons are spread across 3 states, meaning I usually only get 1 states that remains a core after the civil war is done.

And I really don't get that last little quip. What kinda strawman is that? Nobody advocated for a way to circumvent the war.

You are so right I didn't even think of the cores I would lose, sense I have only been playing for 4 to 6 weeks!

 

[Dryhad]

First, stop lying about what I said! I did not say he thinks it has! Where did I say he thinks this here? ("Yes, I know all this, but the AI gets infante Political Power on normal as well. The video here this guy doesn't play on elite") I have not edited anything, sense you posted!

What? I didn't lie or indeed pass any comment at all on what you said. I said BubbleZest thinks this because he says as much in the video, I'm not accusing you of anything, although you might want to take a step back and read my post again with fresh eyes if you're inferring any kind of insult from it.

If an AI is not doing anything, then what is causing the points to be put on what, and what is causing whatever to do whatever on different playthroughs? Sense it is not an AI!

See, this is a good question! The answer is event lar_spain.5. So what exactly does this event do? Well it's just weighted RNG. The game essentially picks a random state that can be contested by the opposing side. It is more likely to contest states that it has recently contested (which I would guess, without any intention of lying about what you are saying, at least partially explains your experience) and if historical mode is on it is more likely to contest "historical" zones of control (if you leave Spain to its own devices on historical mode you can see which states each side gets - it turns out this is very consistent so it may be helpful to check what the AI does in observer mode if you're still struggling as Nationalists on Historical. Unfortunately you cannot similarly check the Republicans because there is no Republican AI, as I said).

Events lar_spain.3 and lar_spain.4 handle the other decisions the Republicans and Nationalists respectively can take in opposition to the player (Primo de Rivera speeches, political assassinations/arrests, etc. etc.). These events are even more rudimentary than garrison control, there's some variation in the likelihood of each mission separately, but it's not dynamic. The game just rolls a die and does whatever the event says that die roll means.

This is what I mean by there not being an AI. It's not like fighting a foreign country in a war, where there is a dedicated AI system deciding the other country's every action. It's just a few events and missions strung together making pseudo-random moves. And because of this, it doesn't and can't have political power. I guarantee you that if Paradox did go into this system and "fix" it so that it did use political power or convincingly pretended to, you would be very unhappy for the simple reason that doing this would definitely break something. I don't know what it would break, but it would be such a comprehensive rewrite of this already somewhat bloated script that it would assuredly introduce a bunch of new bugs that would themselves take months or years to be fixed.

 

[sonjingohan]

What? I didn't lie or indeed pass any comment at all on what you said. I said BubbleZest thinks this because he says as much in the video, I'm not accusing you of anything, although you might want to take a step back and read my post again with fresh eyes if you're inferring any kind of insult from it.


See, this is a good question! The answer is event lar_spain.5. So what exactly does this event do? Well it's just weighted RNG. The game essentially picks a random state that can be contested by the opposing side. It is more likely to contest states that it has recently contested (which I would guess, without any intention of lying about what you are saying, at least partially explains your experience) and if historical mode is on it is more likely to contest "historical" zones of control (if you leave Spain to its own devices on historical mode you can see which states each side gets - it turns out this is very consistent so it may be helpful to check what the AI does in observer mode if you're still struggling as Nationalists on Historical. Unfortunately you cannot similarly check the Republicans because there is no Republican AI, as I said).

Events lar_spain.3 and lar_spain.4 handle the other decisions the Republicans and Nationalists respectively can take in opposition to the player (Primo de Rivera speeches, political assassinations/arrests, etc. etc.). These events are even more rudimentary than garrison control, there's some variation in the likelihood of each mission separately, but it's not dynamic. The game just rolls a die and does whatever the event says that die roll means.

This is what I mean by there not being an AI. It's not like fighting a foreign country in a war, where there is a dedicated AI system deciding the other country's every action. It's just a few events and missions strung together making pseudo-random moves. And because of this, it doesn't and can't have political power. I guarantee you that if Paradox did go into this system and "fix" it so that it did use political power or convincingly pretended to, you would be very unhappy for the simple reason that doing this would definitely break something. I don't know what it would break, but it would be such a comprehensive rewrite of this already somewhat bloated script that it would assuredly introduce a bunch of new bugs that would themselves take months or years to be fixed.

Sorry bro. I misunderstood what you said, because of (so), "I thought you were saying so, bubblezest thinks?" You were saying (so), Bubblesest thinks, sorry I hope you understand what I was thinking when I read your comment, again sorry for the misunderstanding.

I know what the Spain gets, I watched a lot of playthroughs, but the problem, is no matter what side you are on, you get less the "AI", and it is pissing me off to the max. It wouldn't be so bad if the whatever it is, DIDN'T fing cheat! If you watch it from another county, you will see Nationalist Spain always gets most, but when you play them, the Republican Spain gets what Nationalist is supposed to get.

Yes, I would love it, because it is cheating, it can see what I do, and I can't get more than one state! 99% of the time I get 1 state one time in 100 playthroughs I have gotten 2, in the past 3 to 4 weeks.

 

[Dryhad]

Yes, I would love it, because it is cheating, it can see what I do, and I can't get more than one state! 99% of the time I get 1 state one time in 100 playthroughs I have gotten 2, in the past 3 to 4 weeks.

This is where you are wrong. It can't see you what do. It can't see anything, it has no eyes and it has no brain. Don't anthropomorphise it. Don't anthropomorphise the real AI either, but especially don't anthropomorphise this smoke and mirrors system which is not really making meaningful decisions and is even weighted only by a couple of factors.

When I say watch, I mean start up a full observer game and look in on Nationalist Spain to see which garrisons the AI (the real AI) is contesting. It is not sufficient to watch YouTube videos of other people playing as Spain (although this should also suggest good strategy). Watch the AI at work, because this AI is given no special advantage. The opposition is not an AI, and it cheats, but the "real" Spain is an AI and plays by the same rules as the player, including dealing with the opposition. So check and see what it does to inform your strategy.

You think you would love for this to be changed but that is because you are imagining it would be exactly as it is now except better. Your choice is not between unfair and fair. Your choice is between unfair and nonfunctional. I assure you, for the third time, that if Paradox were to stick their hands into this hornet's nest and try to "fix" this "problem" then something would break, and it would make the Spanish Civil War less fun. I know this because it's happened before, with less complicated script than this. And these bugs take a long time to filter through the bugfix process. This is working the way Bratyn designed it, for better or for worse. To change it now would be tantamount to redesigning it entirely and I firmly believe that the result would be to ruin it by accident one way or another. It is not a simple fix, it is not just a matter of flipping one switch in a closed system. It is a total overhaul you are asking for, with all the human error and scope creep that comes with it.

 

[Danieri]

I just read this post and I remember having the same problem as OP some time ago.

I think that the reason for the achievement not triggering is that your ruling party may be non-aligned, instead of fascist (Pretty dumb isn´t it?). Hire the fascist demagogue and wait for the 50-60% fascist trigger to "switch" ideology. As for the state (Ile de France), if you are in the Axis with Germany, you can ask for control of the province if you have enough war score, if not, try giving Germany some french land first.

 

[sonjingohan]

This is where you are wrong. It can't see you what do. It can't see anything, it has no eyes and it has no brain. Don't anthropomorphise it. Don't anthropomorphise the real AI either, but especially don't anthropomorphise this smoke and mirrors system which is not really making meaningful decisions and is even weighted only by a couple of factors.

When I say watch, I mean start up a full observer game and look in on Nationalist Spain to see which garrisons the AI (the real AI) is contesting. It is not sufficient to watch YouTube videos of other people playing as Spain (although this should also suggest good strategy). Watch the AI at work, because this AI is given no special advantage. The opposition is not an AI, and it cheats, but the "real" Spain is an AI and plays by the same rules as the player, including dealing with the opposition. So check and see what it does to inform your strategy.

You think you would love for this to be changed but that is because you are imagining it would be exactly as it is now except better. Your choice is not between unfair and fair. Your choice is between unfair and nonfunctional. I assure you, for the third time, that if Paradox were to stick their hands into this hornet's nest and try to "fix" this "problem" then something would break, and it would make the Spanish Civil War less fun. I know this because it's happened before, with less complicated script than this. And these bugs take a long time to filter through the bugfix process. This is working the way Bratyn designed it, for better or for worse. To change it now would be tantamount to redesigning it entirely and I firmly believe that the result would be to ruin it by accident one way or another. It is not a simple fix, it is not just a matter of flipping one switch in a closed system. It is a total overhaul you are asking for, with all the human error and scope creep that comes with it.

Well, how does it, whatever it is know what I do, because it always gets the same states, but playing the other side, like I said they always get the same state, and they always get more.

Did, something happens at the start most of the time. The outcome changes, but the start rarely dose.

I would love it because it is not possible as it stands now. I believe it 100%. That is why, I can't find no videos on it being done, I also can't find guides! Even those I call pros. don't play on elite, and I have asked some of them, and some of them say they would, and they still haven't done it yet! And these guys are smarter, and 100% better at the game then I. Did you see that I said sorry?

 

[sonjingohan]

I just read this post and I remember having the same problem as OP some time ago.

I think that the reason for the achievement not triggering is that your ruling party may be non-aligned, instead of fascist (Pretty dumb isn´t it?). Hire the fascist demagogue and wait for the 50-60% fascist trigger to "switch" ideology. As for the state (Ile de France), if you are in the Axis with Germany, you can ask for control of the province if you have enough war score, if not, try giving Germany some french land first.

Hel, bro. I can't get close now! On right side, I can't beat Republican Spain, and the other side keeps me from stopping Carlist Spain, before they rise up, and when they do, I lose most of my states, even Galicia.

 

[Dryhad]

Well, how does it, whatever it is know what I do, because it always gets the same states, but playing the other side, like I said they always get the same state, and they always get more.

Did, something happens at the start most of the time. The outcome changes, but the start rarely dose.

I would love it because it is not possible as it stands now. I believe it 100%. That is why, I can't find no videos on it being done, I also can't find guides! Even those I call pros. don't play on elite, and I have asked some of them, and some of them say they would, and they still haven't done it yet! And these guys are smarter, and 100% better at the game then I. Did you see that I said sorry?

Yes, I did see you said sorry and I accept it and do not take offense. It is clear that there is something of a language barrier, because just as you originally did not understand me, I am having trouble understanding you. You say you cannot find videos or guides, but you posted BubblesZest's guide earlier in the thread! It's a good guide, you could do worse than to follow his suggestions.

If you're really interested in the way the opposition contests states, I can talk a bit about his strategy for going after Aragon and Catalonia. These are historically Republican controlled states. As a result, his strategy of "distracting the AI" (those are his words, I will again point out that there is no AI here) by contesting Valencia is a little less powerful than it would be if you were going after the historically Nationalist states of Extremadura, Cordoba, and Sevilla. With historical mode on, the Republican opposition will not contest Extremadura or Cordoba if the Nationalist player has two or fewer levels of control, and will not contest Sevilla if the player has only one level of control. Also, the opposition is heavily weighted to contest historically Republican states (such as Valencia) so if you are able to throw out a few distractions like that you can build up the last few levels of control in the historically Nationalist states.

This is the best advice I can give as I have limited experience playing as the Nationalists and I therefore trust my reading of the script better than my in-game experience.