The Southern Road to Doomsday Mod

[unmerged(46333)]

i was surprized too, well then again i knew alot les then and accepted alot, it was at the end of the show, they said that the american project was finished because of a german sub holding uranium, but that was so long ago (about 2-3 years) i can't remember exactly, and it was heading to japan after germany surrendered

though it may have been a plauseable scerieo or something like that

 

[unmerged(2897)]

Rogue Japan...

I have a new question, I seldom play as an ally unless I'm playing this mod. My other games in SRTDD didn't do this so I thought I'd see if it was a DD issue or a mod adjustment.

Playing as CSA in 42 I have North Africa, all of Portugals colonies including Macauo and I'm fighting the Italians now. The USA joined the Allies and I have as well. Japan though DOW on on US before they joined. Then USA declared on Germany followed by Japan declaring on UK.

Japan is fighting every member of the allies but is not part of the Axis. All their VP gains are not added to the Axis total. By 1942 we already have nearly enough to beat the Axis and Sovs point wise. Not to mention I'm using the two Portuguese Pacific ports to harass Japan.

Did some event not trigger like the Pact to keep Japan from joining with Germany?

Thanks....

 

[unmerged(2897)]

Really? Never heard even a wiff of that before!

I've heard of Japanese nuke development. A surviving scientist came forward with the paperwork recently. But never heard these other things.

I love the History Channel episodes of WWII techs, ice carriers and bat bombs and all. If the war really would have went to even say 1947 things would have gotten strange techwise anyway.

 

[CSABadass]

Back to the thread topic, though, CSA, what about an event to choose the branch of tech tree.

Armoured Theorists gain favour and take control of War College Curricula . . . .

Armoured Theorists ideas rejected by General Staff, War College continues to teach Grand Battle . . .

First, thanks for the suggestion--I really appreciate the feedback. Here's what springs to my mind:

Interesting possibility, but I don't know how to justify it in the alt-history. Sure, it's easy to imagine the SRTDD G.S. Patton lobbying for more aggressive tactics, but he starts the game as a Major General. That was also a low point in his life historically, and his behavior was erratic even by Patton-baseline standards. Since there's no one else on the CSA General Staff who shares his views, I think he'd be a lone crazy voice in the wilderness.

Historically, Patton was able to lobby the US Congress for more support for armored formations, but this was 1940, and that's late in the DD game to switch your tech tree. Even then, the US stuck with Firepower Focus/Superior Firepower.

Most likely, I can see the SRTDD Patton eventually persuading the CSA General Staff down the Operational Stages (UK) branch of the GBP tree. It's not as high-risk, high-reward as MF/SH, but it is rather friendly to mobile warfare. In effect, Patton winds up being the CSA's Liddel Hart.

At this point, I think Grand Battle Plan will be the CSA's tree in "official" SRTDD 2.6.

However, since it's just a matter of changing two numbers in one file, I am considering doing a "renegade 2.6" patch that overwrites that one file and lets you play the CSA with Spearhead if you want. If that's something you people would like to see, just let me know and it's QED.

 

[unmerged(43870)]

However, since it's just a matter of changing two numbers in one file, I am considering doing a "renegade 2.6" patch that overwrites that one file and lets you play the CSA with Spearhead if you want. If that's something you people would like to see, just let me know and it's QED.

Thats certainly a simple solution. In the end its your Mod/Alt History, so go with what works for you. But be aware that someone somehwere probably has an alt idea for your alt history and is probably modding your mod . . . :rofl:

 

[CSABadass]

Thats certainly a simple solution. In the end its your Mod/Alt History, so go with what works for you. But be aware that someone somehwere probably has an alt idea for your alt history and is probably modding your mod . . . :rofl:

Well, sure, SRTDD is mine, but I do strive for plausibility, as well as making it something other people want to download and play. I never want to be one of those "It's MY MOD, so the rest of you can bugger off!" types.

The thought of someone modding my mod seems...odd. But you're probably right. I did do a special version of SRTDD just for Missouri Rebel, after all.

 

[unmerged(43870)]

Well, sure, SRTDD is mine, but I do strive for plausibility, as well as making it something other people want to download and play. I never want to be one of those "It's MY MOD, so the rest of you can bugger off!" types.

The thought of someone modding my mod seems...odd. But you're probably right. I did do a special version of SRTDD just for Missouri Rebel, after all.

Hi, I meant NO disrespect nor meant to group you with teh bugger-off types

But, heck you are the 'artist' here, the one willing to take the time to code your vision of alt-history. All we can do is pipe up with thoughts and suggestions. YOU are the MAN who has to make the final decisions!

Have fun!

 

[semihippie]

Hey, I've played this mod from the get-go, some small suggestions- could you make Higgins available from 1936? As it is right now, no one in the CSA knows how to make artillery until 1940.

Also, as no one really likes Duke (go UNC!). Perhaps change it to Virginia Tech or NC State or Georgia Tech? And add electronics to this tech team? I find it strange that a dockyard can be specialized in electronics, but not a technologically centered university. I mean, I guess you really don't have to change Duke, but I think the electronics may be a good idea.

Also, with the mexico surrendering to the CSA event, shouldn't Mexico renounce its claims on those provinces (mexicali, hermillosa, la paz), and maybe CSA gain them as nationals? (perhaps after an event?)

 

[CSABadass]

Good to hear from you, semihippie, and thanks for the feedback!

Hey, I've played this mod from the get-go, some small suggestions- could you make Higgins available from 1936? As it is right now, no one in the CSA knows how to make artillery until 1940.

Also, as no one really likes Duke (go UNC!). Perhaps change it to Virginia Tech or NC State or Georgia Tech? And add electronics to this tech team? I find it strange that a dockyard can be specialized in electronics, but not a technologically centered university. I mean, I guess you really don't have to change Duke, but I think the electronics may be a good idea.

Also, with the mexico surrendering to the CSA event, shouldn't Mexico renounce its claims on those provinces (mexicali, hermillosa, la paz), and maybe CSA gain them as nationals? (perhaps after an event?)

1) Historically, Higgins Industries didn't start working for the military until 1938, so I can move it back that far in V2.6. Thanks for the suggestion!

2) I know Duke's been a big engineering school since the turn of the century (and even more so since the late 1930s), and its tech team has the mechanics specialty to reflect that. Were they a big electronics school back in the 1940s? I'll have to check on that.

3) I don't see the CSA getting Western Mexico as national provinces within the DD timeframe. Maybe if they hold on to them and work hard on assimilating the locals, but in the space of 15 years I see them dealing with a angry population that's ethnically, linguistically, and culturally very different from the Olde Southern majority back in Dixie. And we all know what a great job the South was doing in welcoming minorities back in the 1940s historically.

I'm not sure about Mexico dropping its claims to the land. Is even a beaten Mexican government going to abandon its surely oppressed hermanos in what used to be the western part of its land? Right now, it's kind of a moot point unless the CSA un-puppets Mexico, but it's worth thinking about for V2.6.

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[semihippie]

Good to hear from you, semihippie, and thanks for the feedback!



1) Historically, Higgins Industries didn't start working for the military until 1938, so I can move it back that far in V2.6. Thanks for the suggestion!

2) Sorry, but I have a good friend who's a graduate of Duke Law School. He'd kill me and sue me (in that order) if I got rid of the Blue Devils.

3) I know Duke's been a big engineering school since the turn of the century (and even more so since the late 1930s), and its tech team has the mechanics specialty to reflect that. Were they a big electronics school back in the 1940s? I'll have to check on that.

4) I don't see the CSA getting Western Mexico as national provinces within the DD timeframe. Maybe if they hold on to them and work hard on assimilating the locals, but in the space of 15 years I see them dealing with a angry population that's ethnically, linguistically, and culturally very different from the Olde Southern majority back in Dixie. And we all know what a great job the South was doing in welcoming minorities back in the 1940s historically.

I'm not sure about Mexico dropping its claims to the land. Is even a beaten Mexican government going to abandon its surely oppressed hermanos in what used to be the western part of its land? Right now, it's kind of a moot point unless the CSA un-puppets Mexico, but it's worth thinking about for V2.6.

Thanks again for the feedback!

Thanks for the quick response,

I did some quick researching on wikipedia- it seems that the only big electronics company from the South active in that time period was Texas Instruments. They (or the precursor company GSI), made electronics for the army and navy for WWII.

So the question becomes how much access do yankee companies and universities have to the South? Would a Texas Instruments have developed a little earlier, and become a southern counterpart to Raytheon?

I think most of the early electronics work in the US in real life seems to be centered in the Northeast. Would Southern professors and researchers gone to the north to study? Or would they have developed their own native institutions? Some place like Duke, an elite engineering school, would have been a perfect place for electronics research.

Another reason I think Duke should get it is that a lot of the early electronics research was also in the UK- from what you've said, one of the CSA's strongest allies and cultural and intellectual partners. Would the CSA's main academic goals have been close to the British?

Also, about the Higgins thing- well, then who is supplying the arms and artillary for the Confederate army?

Just some stuff to think about. I am a history major in the south...

 

[CSABadass]

I did some quick researching on wikipedia- it seems that the only big electronics company from the South active in that time period was Texas Instruments. They (or the precursor company GSI), made electronics for the army and navy for WWII.

So the question becomes how much access do yankee companies and universities have to the South?

Also, about the Higgins thing- well, then who is supplying the arms and artillary for the Confederate army?

Just some stuff to think about. I am a history major in the south...

Hi again, and thanks very much for the feedback. Here's my take on things--please feel free to rebut!

1) Funny thing about TI/GSI: Paradox must be singularly unimpressed with its efforts, as it is nowhere to be found amongst the Texas tech teams.

2) If you look at the CSA's tech teams in SRTDD, a quarter of them (5 out of 21) have electronics as a specialty. So while it may not happen at the collegiate level, the CSA seems to have no worries about getting its electronics research done by its government (Norfolk Navy Yard, et. al.) and private industry (Hughes Aircraft).

3) As for the CSA's arms procurement, keep in mind its military (absent the navy, primarily built at the Norfolk Navy Yards) is tiny in 1936, and all Great War models at that. They are therefore able to get by on leftover WWI stockpiles, the remnants of that great past industrial burst able to sustain their miniscule land forces during the Great Depression. If anything else is needed, it is imported, primarily from the Commonwealth.

Higgins Industries' 1938 emergence in the game is an early sign of the CSA's economic recovery, as well as its government waking up to the impending world crises and revivifying its domestic arms industry.

(As an aside, that's one of the reasons I previously left Higgins' start date as-is in 1939--it then flourishes only after the isolationist Long Administration is gone. However, now the CSA faces a crisis of its own with Mexico in 1938, making the new start date the more sensible.)

4) One thing to keep in mind about DD tech teams in general is that not every nation is going to do everything well at all times. That's historical, and it keeps the game balanced. The CSA is far from the worst off in this regard. For example, the UK never has more than two specialty matches when researching the land doctrine it invented(!).

It's a bit of a challenge before and after Higgins Ind. exists in the game, but hey, stuff like that makes the game more interesting to me. Just my opinion, but something to consider, I hope.

5) Funny that--I'm a history teacher/author in the South.

 

[semihippie]

Hi again, and thanks very much for the feedback. Here's my take on things--please feel free to rebut!

1) Funny thing about TI/GSI: Paradox must be singularly unimpressed with its efforts, as it is nowhere to be found amongst the Texas tech teams.

2) If you look at the CSA's tech teams in SRTDD, a quarter of them (5 out of 21) have electronics as a specialty. So while it may not happen at the collegiate level, the CSA seems to have no worries about getting its electronics research done by its government (Norfolk Navy Yard, et. al.) and private industry (Hughes Aircraft).

3) As for the CSA's arms procurement, keep in mind its military (absent the navy, primarily built at the Norfolk Navy Yards) is tiny in 1936, and all Great War models at that. They are therefore able to get by on leftover WWI stockpiles, the remnants of that great past industrial burst able to sustain their miniscule land forces during the Great Depression. If anything else is needed, it is imported, primarily from the Commonwealth.

Higgins Industries' 1938 emergence in the game is an early sign of the CSA's economic recovery, as well as its government waking up to the impending world crises and revivifying its domestic arms industry.

(As an aside, that's one of the reasons I previously left Higgins' start date as-is in 1939--it then flourishes only after the isolationist Long Administration is gone. However, now the CSA faces a crisis of its own with Mexico in 1938, making the new start date the more sensible.)

4) One thing to keep in mind about DD tech teams in general is that not every nation is going to do everything well at all times. That's historical, and it keeps the game balanced. The CSA is far from the worst off in this regard. For example, the UK never has more than two specialty matches when researching the land doctrine it invented(!).

It's a bit of a challenge before and after Higgins Ind. exists in the game, but hey, stuff like that makes the game more interesting to me. Just my opinion, but something to consider, I hope.

5) Funny that--I'm a history teacher/author in the South.

Cheers, you've convinced me on the tech teams.

Well, for the Mexican provinces becoming national, I was thinking of a domestic event which would characterize the CSA's rule over them- "The Mexican Question?" perhaps could be a name for it. They could either choose to keep them under a military occupation, (move toward hawk lobby, standing army dissent increase?), ally with the upper classes/elite, (right wing, free market moves?), or buy off the farmers/workers with government jobs(left wing, minus money, supplies, add infrustucture, 1 or 2 IC transfered from confederate national provinces( or maybe new metal? production or something, added dissent (They're taking our jobs!) ). Then, a random event for each province a few years later saying that the province does not oppose your rule. Of course, they could also outright reject it too, leading to increased revolt risk and partisans. Might be a fun flavor event, might be too overpowering.

 

[unmerged(2897)]

Cheers, you've convinced me on the tech teams.

Well, for the Mexican provinces becoming national, I was thinking of a domestic event which would characterize the CSA's rule over them- "The Mexican Question?" perhaps could be a name for it. They could either choose to keep them under a military occupation, (move toward hawk lobby, standing army dissent increase?), ally with the upper classes/elite, (right wing, free market moves?), or buy off the farmers/workers with government jobs(left wing, minus money, supplies, add infrustucture, 1 or 2 IC transfered from confederate national provinces( or maybe new metal? production or something, added dissent (They're taking our jobs!) ). Then, a random event for each province a few years later saying that the province does not oppose your rule. Of course, they could also outright reject it too, leading to increased revolt risk and partisans. Might be a fun flavor event, might be too overpowering.

That sounds pretty good and well thought out. As long as it's between 1938 and 1940, events like that would be great. Then the balloon goes up and it gets busy. I usually just annex them and all of Central America to Panama before the war. Takes my BEL to like 70 playing Hard/ Aggressive, then I join the allies and act like an angel.

Plus the constant war, the main reason other then conquered IC and resources is that it keeps that peace IC down and makes for a stronger wartime CSA. Dissent decreases helps the treasury out too. Thats just how I play, CSABadass says to play as one sees fit, so my CSA runs to the canal and owns Portugal.

 

[CSABadass]

Cheers, you've convinced me on the tech teams.

Well, for the Mexican provinces becoming national, I was thinking of a domestic event which would characterize the CSA's rule over them- "The Mexican Question?" perhaps could be a name for it. They could either choose to keep them under a military occupation, (move toward hawk lobby, standing army dissent increase?), ally with the upper classes/elite, (right wing, free market moves?), or buy off the farmers/workers with government jobs(left wing, minus money, supplies, add infrustucture, 1 or 2 IC transfered from confederate national provinces( or maybe new metal? production or something, added dissent (They're taking our jobs!) ). Then, a random event for each province a few years later saying that the province does not oppose your rule. Of course, they could also outright reject it too, leading to increased revolt risk and partisans. Might be a fun flavor event, might be too overpowering.

I'll give it some thought and see what I can come up with. Thanks again for the suggestions!

 

[unmerged(35402)]

Another quick question: Why does the United States control the Panama Canal? If the CSA was to control the Caribbean while the USA controlled the Pacific, wouldn't the Confederates have been the ones to gain the rights to a canal in Central America?

 

[CSABadass]

Another quick question: Why does the United States control the Panama Canal? If the CSA was to control the Caribbean while the USA controlled the Pacific, wouldn't the Confederates have been the ones to gain the rights to a canal in Central America?

The question would be, since the CSA lacks a Pacific Coast until 1916, why would it need it? It doesn't need easy access to the Pacific and an intervention into Central America to co-dominate the Caribbean.

Who WOULD need it is the USA, who finds transcoastal travel an even greater imperative in a world where the eastern half of its country retains most of its population and industry, but the Pacific is its major outlet for expansion (economic and otherwise).

Not only do I see the USA still building the Panama Canal in SRTDD, I can actually see them doing it sooner than they did historically.

At least that's my take. Feel free to discuss further, and thanks much for the feedback!

 

[unmerged(35402)]

The question would be, since the CSA lacks a Pacific Coast until 1916, why would it need it? It doesn't need easy access to the Pacific and an intervention into Central America to co-dominate the Caribbean.

Even though the CSA lacked a Pacific Coastline until 1916, I figure they would have been interested in a canal for economic reasons, as well as to simply have an additional base in Latin America. Confederate officials would have closely watched the failed European endeavors to construct a waterway in the region, and amongst a world of increasing need for speed in travel, probably would have seen limitless potential in their controlling the only worthwhile gateway between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. In addition, The United States did create and back a revolution in Panama to make it break from Columbia. Such an action may have been seen as a clear violation of the Confederate sphere of influence. Finally, with the CSA controlling much of the American Southwest, I'm sure the leaders of that nation would have been eyeing the unstable Mexican Coast long before 1916..just waiting for an oppurtunity to grab it. Building a canal may have been foresight in this regard.

 

[unmerged(43870)]

Would Southern professors and researchers gone to the north to study? Or would they have developed their own native institutions? Some place like Duke, an elite engineering school, would have been a perfect place for electronics research.

They could definitely have gone to Europe to study. My great gradfather (Roanoke, VA) went to Vienna for Med School from 1900-1903 . . .

 

[unmerged(43870)]

Southern Tech Teams

Well, with 70 years between the end of the Civil War and the start of SRTDD you can make almost any assumptions you want about southern tech teams. With the backing of a nation in need of tech, many groups that did not flourish in OTL might fluorish in the MOD TL. With Raytheon in the north, southern tax $$ might have gone to TI/GSI or to JohnnyRebElectric of Anytown, Arkansas, etc.

The south has many fine universities and research centers that would have benefited from a Richmond based govt competing with the USA. Emory University outside Atlanta, the Tuskegee Institute (though what would have happened there is open to speculation) the Medical College of Georgia in Augusta, Georgia Tech is one of the top tech schools even today. Texas A&M, Oak Ridge Lab in Tennessee, there is the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Brusnwick GA (though it was probably not built til after WW2 in OTL), the Citadel, VMI, the lesser known Georgia Military College (might have grown larger with no West Point for southern hs grads) \

Think of all the military training bases in the south (though granted, they were mainly pushed through by solid south Demcratic comittee chairmen who gained seniority vis a vis their northern legislator brethren by lack of a competing party in OTL) : Fort Bliss, Fort Gordon, Fort Benning, Parris Island, Fort Knox, Ft Stewart, Charleston Navy Yard, Fort Hood, Fort Rucker, Shaw AFB - Columbia SC, Fort MacDill (HQ of Special Ops), Fort Bragg (Delta Force), in Charlotte NC. These same legislators in SRTDD timeline would still be working to get the govt dollar spent in their home constituencies . . .
The possibilities are endless . . .

 

[Cyrus Spitama]

Speaking of southern tech teams, don't forget some of the leading hospitals and universities for medical professions were located in the South. Ochnser and Charity hospital were a HUGE locations for medical internships and visiting doctors. Ochnser had some of the first transplant operations in the country and has a nation leading cancer center. Some hospital friendly tech teams would be appropriate

P.S. Of course you already mentioned Higgins which was largely located in the La. area.