CK+. HIP doesn't mod many religions, which is one of my favorite things in the game. What's the point in playing if you can't be a Devil-worshiping incestuous hedonist?
The Showdown: CKII+ vs. HIP
- Thread starter RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen
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What major mechanics are in CK2+ that aren't in Hip? The CK2+ faction system, coronation system and imperial government all got added to HIP. I'm pretty sure there is other stuff as well.
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Been awhile since i played HIP so I dont know their very recent features since Rylock joined.
My favorite is the decision to distribute newly acquired titles in HIP, giving every county to a random character of your culture and religion.
I also enjoy the lucky rulers in HIP a lot. Makes great rivals for when you have unified an empire and usually become unstoppable.
My favorite is the decision to distribute newly acquired titles in HIP, giving every county to a random character of your culture and religion.
I also enjoy the lucky rulers in HIP a lot. Makes great rivals for when you have unified an empire and usually become unstoppable.
The difficult part of reading these "CK2+ vs. HIP" threads that pop up from time to time -- as someone who has worked on both mods -- is how often the comments on them are either very superficial or very out of date. People still talk about how CK2+ has better factions or has lots of extra detail in the religions, for instance, when both those things have been ported over to HIP's EMF module, and have been in that mod for several versions now. Or people talk how one or the other has "more flavor" or "more immersion", and for the life of me I can't even decipher what those words are supposed to really mean any longer.
From my perspective, again as someone who worked on both mods:
CK2+ has a lot more events in general. If this is what you call "flavor", then here it is. Some people wax poetic regarding how much "flavor" VIET has (buggy dick jokes being their thing, I guess), and that module is available for HIP as well as sometimes available for CK2+, though with or without VIET CK2+ still has way more events. HIP has been getting better since the start of this year, but overall its focus is much more on gameplay than CK2+ is.
HIP has a much more detailed map, vis a vis the SWMH sub-mod (which also expands on the history files a lot, as well as the cultures). For some folks, this is really important. CK2+ also has its own custom map, but "historical accuracy" has never been CK2+'s focus insomuch as making gameplay fun. Maybe that's immersion, for some. Well, anyway, HIP's map is often cited as a big plus, and it should be.
HIP is more customizeable, with an installation module that allows you to pick and choose from various sub-mods such as EMF (the rules module), SWMH (the map module), LTM (the terrain module), CPRplus (the portraits module), VIET Events (as mentioned), and more. Both CK2+ and HIP include some day one customization events which you can fire after starting, though between the two HIP is more fundamentally customizeable. It's easy to undersell just how much work has gone into SWMH and CPRplus - those two modules alone add so much to HIP, they can probably be considered part of the core package with regards to what it offers.
CK2+ is generally more challenging, gameplay-wise. Much of this dates back to the tweaking Wiz did when he was in charge of the mod, and it's an arguable point--and not the same in every facet--but on the whole I'd say it's quite a bit harder to move up the ranks and win wars in CK2+ than it is in HIP.
CK2+ supports the Charlemagne bookmark more intrinsically, whereas HIP does not (and SWMH omits it altogether). In fact, Charlemagne is CK2+'s default bookmark, whereas HIP leans more towards the 1066 bookmark (although it still supports the Old Gods). Consequently, CK2+ also has the united Chalcedonian Christianity religion, and a mechanism for the Schism to occur which splits it into Catholic and Orthodox (historically which happened just prior to the 1066 bookmark).
HIP (EMF specifically) has done a lot more work on balancing levies based on realm size, as well as balancing its laws.
CK2+ has cadet dynasties (HIP only has this for Muslims).
CK2+ has incorporated much of the Ancient Religions mod, so you have a system for stuff with Hellenic, Celtic, and Kemetic Pagans.
Things they both do? They both have massively-revamped factions. They both have a lot of additional focus on the religions and heresies. They both have revamped the casus bellis a lot, with a lot of additional cb's as well as work to make them function better. They both have the Imperial government system, for those who love being the Byzantines or Roman Empire. They both have an expanded siege system. They both have an expanded system for adventurers, to make them more realistic. They both have a ruler coronation system. They both have replaced vanilla Decadence with a new system. Both have a "Shattered World" type system called New World Order, allowing you to begin play with the world broken up into counties or duchies, etc. Both have incorporated the NDE dueling system. Both have a sainthood and martyr system. Both have a user-friendly system for distributing new titles which (in my opinion) far surpasses the system vanilla added in the CM DLC.
There's a lot more, and I expect I missed some which folks would consider important, but my main point is that both of the mods have a LOT in common (especially since they started working together last year, and since I moved over to HIP) and the differences are things which mean people get to pick what's more important to them. Either way, both mods have had a huge amount of work put into them, having spanned several lifetimes with different folks helming their teams, and that work and continuing effort should really be respected. Neither team appreciates it when people compare them in the spirit of making it a pissing content...we're both fine with our differences, and I think both teams would really prefer that the diversity in the CK2 modding community be celebrated.
(And I wrote this so I can link back to it in the future whenever this comes up. Since it does.)
From my perspective, again as someone who worked on both mods:
CK2+ has a lot more events in general. If this is what you call "flavor", then here it is. Some people wax poetic regarding how much "flavor" VIET has (buggy dick jokes being their thing, I guess), and that module is available for HIP as well as sometimes available for CK2+, though with or without VIET CK2+ still has way more events. HIP has been getting better since the start of this year, but overall its focus is much more on gameplay than CK2+ is.
HIP has a much more detailed map, vis a vis the SWMH sub-mod (which also expands on the history files a lot, as well as the cultures). For some folks, this is really important. CK2+ also has its own custom map, but "historical accuracy" has never been CK2+'s focus insomuch as making gameplay fun. Maybe that's immersion, for some. Well, anyway, HIP's map is often cited as a big plus, and it should be.
HIP is more customizeable, with an installation module that allows you to pick and choose from various sub-mods such as EMF (the rules module), SWMH (the map module), LTM (the terrain module), CPRplus (the portraits module), VIET Events (as mentioned), and more. Both CK2+ and HIP include some day one customization events which you can fire after starting, though between the two HIP is more fundamentally customizeable. It's easy to undersell just how much work has gone into SWMH and CPRplus - those two modules alone add so much to HIP, they can probably be considered part of the core package with regards to what it offers.
CK2+ is generally more challenging, gameplay-wise. Much of this dates back to the tweaking Wiz did when he was in charge of the mod, and it's an arguable point--and not the same in every facet--but on the whole I'd say it's quite a bit harder to move up the ranks and win wars in CK2+ than it is in HIP.
CK2+ supports the Charlemagne bookmark more intrinsically, whereas HIP does not (and SWMH omits it altogether). In fact, Charlemagne is CK2+'s default bookmark, whereas HIP leans more towards the 1066 bookmark (although it still supports the Old Gods). Consequently, CK2+ also has the united Chalcedonian Christianity religion, and a mechanism for the Schism to occur which splits it into Catholic and Orthodox (historically which happened just prior to the 1066 bookmark).
HIP (EMF specifically) has done a lot more work on balancing levies based on realm size, as well as balancing its laws.
CK2+ has cadet dynasties (HIP only has this for Muslims).
CK2+ has incorporated much of the Ancient Religions mod, so you have a system for stuff with Hellenic, Celtic, and Kemetic Pagans.
Things they both do? They both have massively-revamped factions. They both have a lot of additional focus on the religions and heresies. They both have revamped the casus bellis a lot, with a lot of additional cb's as well as work to make them function better. They both have the Imperial government system, for those who love being the Byzantines or Roman Empire. They both have an expanded siege system. They both have an expanded system for adventurers, to make them more realistic. They both have a ruler coronation system. They both have replaced vanilla Decadence with a new system. Both have a "Shattered World" type system called New World Order, allowing you to begin play with the world broken up into counties or duchies, etc. Both have incorporated the NDE dueling system. Both have a sainthood and martyr system. Both have a user-friendly system for distributing new titles which (in my opinion) far surpasses the system vanilla added in the CM DLC.
There's a lot more, and I expect I missed some which folks would consider important, but my main point is that both of the mods have a LOT in common (especially since they started working together last year, and since I moved over to HIP) and the differences are things which mean people get to pick what's more important to them. Either way, both mods have had a huge amount of work put into them, having spanned several lifetimes with different folks helming their teams, and that work and continuing effort should really be respected. Neither team appreciates it when people compare them in the spirit of making it a pissing content...we're both fine with our differences, and I think both teams would really prefer that the diversity in the CK2 modding community be celebrated.
(And I wrote this so I can link back to it in the future whenever this comes up. Since it does.)
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Just to clarify, when people like me talk about VIET we're referring to Immersion, rather than Events with the former adding lots of mechanics to various cultures and religions in a similar way to your recent work with EMF, and also in some cases adding religions to the game before vanilla did.
Is that still included into HIP, though? I thought this module was discontinued as no one was maintaining it.
Some people mean VIET Immersion, sure. Not everyone. Other people still refer to the currently available VIET Events as being the source of their preferred "flavor". Whether they all even know VIET Immersion and VIET Events were different things is difficult to say.
VIET Immersion stopped being included a long time ago, as it was buggy and out of date and required a major overhaul in order to restore it to working order, something no-one was willing to actually do. Having cracked open the old file, I found a lot of it already exists in base EMF now or had questionable value. I think the Pagan Improvement Project, a sub-mod for HIP, has been trying to resurrect parts of it.
I like HIP for VIET and other events (hip seems to have more). Like CK+ for lower income rates and trade rotes.
Both are great compared to vanilla with their 4 factions. Cant play vanilla because it lacks those. Also both mods are great cos they have empire decadence and kidnapping.
Now I think of it, I could try playing next ck+ mod while adding viet events and probably some other events and ambitions from hip.
Both are great compared to vanilla with their 4 factions. Cant play vanilla because it lacks those. Also both mods are great cos they have empire decadence and kidnapping.
Now I think of it, I could try playing next ck+ mod while adding viet events and probably some other events and ambitions from hip.
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CK+ has overall a very different balance. AI is more threatening there. And I like that.
Pretty much the only reason I play CK2+ is that it supports Charlemagne bookmark more then any other mod. I like the idea of pushing back the start date as far as possible (while keeping it medieval so max push back would be post classical in 655ish). I would like it if the map for ck2+ got a bit more love because of how flat the ck2 map originally feels and dislike the balance of the map that ck2+ uses. But I think having the schism is the overall seller for me because of my want to start early and how non-Chalcedonianism sorta urks me on how none historic it is. That and how the HRE actually forms at the end of the Carolingian empire makes it so my EU 4 converts just feel more natural and as if history although its changed and different has a lot of similarities to our history.
They're both awesome and represent an amazing amount of volunteer work. My only regret is that I can only play with one.
I actually find it interesting to see, that I switched from CK2+ to HIP. I play both actually, especially CK2+ when I want to play with 769 start date, but over time I grew to appreciate a bit more (at least for me) harder and complex HIP.. and a better map.