The Seven Years War

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It is rumoured that the SYW is planned as a standard scenario for EU. I think it would make for ideal internet play because it could be finished in an evening, and is a truely global conflict - including as it does North America, India, the Caribbean and Europe.

I was wondering. Does anyone know anything about it? It's a subject I'm keen to learn about. Has anyone played any of the 'Battles of the Age of Reason' by Clash of Arms? Can anyone recommend any history books or source material on this subject.

 

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The seven years war?

 

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Originally posted by APKicks on 05-31-2000 12:15 AM
The seven years war?

Y'know? 1756-63. Lots of killing, that kinda thing...

 

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It is called 'The French and the Indian War' among the Americans.

We all invent our favourite names like the Great Patriotic War for WWII in Russia.

/Greven

 

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i dont know. i've heard of the paraguay bolivian war, how chile and argentina were the only 2 countries in south america to countinue trade with the Axis Powers...never really study europe though unless it's about WW2

 

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Matthew,

I've never played the CG, but I think the 7 Years War is probably included. It's included in the BG, with all the datas about America, India, and Antillas, but also Africa, South America and Indian Ocean. So the designers only have to transfer the datas. And if they don't, but the game provides a scenario designer, it won't take much time to do it. You would only have to obtain the datas. I could help you if necessary. That's the only thing I can say about the 7YW.

About the others wars of the 'Age of reason', most of them have been designed. In the BG, you have the Spanish Succession War, Great Northern War, the Austrian Succession War, and, I don't know if you include them in the so-called 'Age of reason', all the Louis XIV's wars. The only famous wars with no scenario are the Polish Succession War, the Bavarian one and the Coalition wars against France during French Revolution. There's also wars including Turkey and Austria in the late XVIIth.

Hope s/o will answer you for the CG. I'm also interested in.
Raphaël

 

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Matthew

There is quite a lot or material available in English about the SYW. You can find a good review of the Prussian view of the war in Mr. Patrick Duffy's 'Frederick the Great: A Military Biography'. I bought the book when I was in the US in 1994, and it is esentially a biography of King Frederick II of Prussia, with information on his background, the two Silesian Wars fought in the 1740s (which are esentially the Prussian intervention in the War of the Austrian Succession), the Seven Years War (1756-63) and his final years. However, this book solely contains information on the Central European events of the war, and other books need to be consulted for other events in India and North America. I have not managed to read books about this yet, but I hope to solve this reasonably soon. I would also recommend Osprey's books on the subject; its 'Men-at-Arms' series contains several titles devoted to the armies involved in this war.

Incidentally, I think that 'French and Indian Wars' is the global name used to refer to all the colonial wars fought in North America from 1620 to the Revolution, and each of these wars has a separate name. I do not recall right now what the Seven Years War in America is called, but this was the last 'French and Indian War', because the British managed to conquer Canada, thus ending French rule. I will try to confirm this in a couple of days' time.

Best regards to all.

Martin

 

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'Incidentally, I think that 'French and Indian Wars' is the global name used to refer to all the colonial wars fought in North America from 1620 to the Revolution, and each of these wars has a separate name. I do not recall right now what the Seven Years War in America is called, but this was the last 'French and Indian War', because the British managed to conquer Canada, thus ending French rule. I will try to confirm this in a couple of days' time.'

Martin, I don't concede to this. No american historian I have talked with have had any other connotation to the name 'French and Indian War' than 1756-1763.
Instead in professional circles these pre-USA wars are usually named:

The Thirty Years War (1618-1648)
King William's War (1689-1697)
Queen Anne's War (1702-1713) (i.e. WoSS)
The War of Jenkins' Ear (1739-1743)
King Georg's War (1744-1748)
French and Indian War (1756-1763) (i.e.SYW)

/Greven

 

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Greven (or should I say your Holyness Pope Greven?)

You are probably right about the 'French and Indian War', but I would still like to consult an American encyclopedia I have at home. Thank you for the list of names, though!

Martin

 

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Originally posted by Raphael on 05-31-2000 08:54 AM
You would only have to obtain the datas. I could help you if necessary... Raphaël

Help with raw data for this conflict would be very helpful to us beta-testers. EU boardgame isn't a reliable source. Do you have one?

 

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err...when you guys say 'Indians' wtf do you mean!?! Do you mean Native Americans to North America, or the islands of the Caribean, or Indians to refer to people native to the Indian subcontinent, or the country of India....

i'll try to look up some info, and if i get anything i'll put it on my webpage.

 

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Indians in this case means the native americans.

 

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Matthew

Sorry, I've got nothing more than the EU BG. In my post, I mean I could give the EU BG datas, nothing more. I just have a look in some of my books but I found nothing really interesting.

Raphaël

 

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It was called 'The French and Indian War' (note: not 'the French and THE Indian war' because the French and the Native peoples of North America allied against the British colonies in North America. Despite the calamitous results of the 7 Years War in Europe, in North America the event was very much focused on local skirmishes along *approximately* the western borders of the original colonies making up the later USA (ie along the nominally 'French' lands).

Interesting results from war:
1) France loses much of its North American holdings to England (this opens the door to an English Canada as well as the later 'Louisiana Purchase' by the USA
2) George Washington learns the art of fighting battles in forests with small mobile forces, later put to great use

 

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Hi,
The alliance of French and Indians against British Colonies (why only colonies?! It is useful to recall that it was a war between two mighty colonial powers British Crown vs French Crown) is a myth. Many Indians were involved in this conflict on British side.
By the way - in Canada even historians call this war 'The English and Indian War. The Seven Years War in America was a war of Frenchmen, French Canadians, and Indians against Englishmen, Irishmen, Scots, British colonials, and Indians.
To be more accurate: The Iroquois League generally allied with the English though their status was formally neutral; the Iroquois had accepted the role of buffer betweem the empires after losing prolonged war with the French in the seventeenth century.

Regards,
Nick

 

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Actually, France lost more than 'much' of her American holdings. By the loss, France was almost totally eliminated from the New World. France had to surrender to the UK the St. Lawrence River claims, giving up Quebec, Montreal and the rest of its Canadian claims. It also surrendered Louisiana (the very large Mississippi River Valley claim), giving everything east of the Mississippi River to the UK and everything west to Spain (including the key city of New Orleans which was on the east side of the river IIRC).

After this war, France was relegated to Haiti, some islands in the Caribean, French Guinea and I believe some small islands off the coast of Canada. When Napoleon came to power, Spain gave back their share of Louisiana (the other half now belonging to the United States) to France. Napoleon was interested in reviving a New World empire but gave it up when his army was defeated by a slave revolt (and disease) in Haiti and he was running short of money. When Thomas Jefferson offered to buy New Orleans, the vital Mississippi port, Napoleon offered him the entire Louisiana territory for a moderately higher price. Fortunately for us Americans, he accepted.

The French and Indian War was a crushing defeat to French colonial dreams.

 

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Originally posted by Raphael on 05-31-2000 08:35 PM
Matthew

Sorry, I've got nothing more than the EU BG. In my post, I mean I could give the EU BG datas, nothing more. I just have a look in some of my books but I found nothing really interesting.

Raphaël

Thanks for trying

The web is useless on this, little better than a school-boy's encyclopedia.

 

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uh..Pole, i am not sure that information is correct. i thought France sold the territory to america when it needed the money, to Louis the 5th (i dont know how the hell to spell it, just sound it out the way i spelled it, not how it looks and you'll understand who i meant) or something i think...atleast that's what my school tells me

 

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Originally posted by APKicks on 06-01-2000 03:14 AM
uh..Pole, i am not sure that information is correct. i thought France sold the territory to america when it needed the money, to Louis the 5th....

Let me open the encyclopedia. Ah, here it is. Louisiana Purchase. Let me provide a timeline:

1763: Treaty of Paris ends the Seven Years' War (French and Indian War in North America). France cedes Louisiana west of the Mississippi plus New Orleans to Spain. England gets the rest. England gets Florida from Spain (Spain will get it back later).

1776: USA Declaration of Independence.

1795: Spain grants Americans 'right of deposit' in New Orleans. This allowed Americans to store goods for export. This was important since the Mississippi River was the western border of the USA at the time and the vital trade route of the western USA.

November 1799: Napoleon abolishes the Directory and creates the Consulate. This makes him effective dictator of France.

March 1801: Thomas Jefferson becomes President of the USA.

November 1801: Jefferson receives a copy of the proposed treaty that transfers Spanish Louisiana to France. Jefferson tries to stop the transfer and, if it has already happened, convince France to cede Florida and West Florida (which included New Orleans) to the USA. It is rejected by Napoleon.

March 1802: Treaty of Amiens. France makes peace with the UK after losing the Egypt campaign.

Later 1802: France's attempt to put down the rebellion in Haiti fails miserably. Plans to transfer French troops to Louisiana and take possession of the territory are abandoned. Jefferson sends a diplomat to France threatening an alliance with the UK against France if the country took possession of the territory.

October 1802: Spain revokes the 'right of deposit', probably under orders from Napoleon.

Later 1802/Early 1803: Napoleon sends more troops to Haiti (they will fail). Jefferson sends more diplomats offering to buy the east bank of the Mississippi and New Orleans. Jefferson approves over $9 million for the purchase.

April 1803: Out of fear that either England or the USA might seize Louisiana in his upcoming war, Napoleon authorizes the sale of the entire Louisiana territory. He can also use the money. The diplomats agree to buy Louisiana for cash and assumption of American claims against France (approximately $15 million). The treaty is signed May 2.

May 1803: Napoleon declares war on the UK.

October 1803: The treaty is ratified. Money is borrowed from English and Dutch bankers to pay for it.

December 1803: USA takes possession of Louisiana. Note that this does not include the Floridas except for New Orleans. The USA will get the Floridas in 1819 in a treaty with Spain.

Well, I hoped you learned something. I know I did.

 

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i sure as hell did...thanks