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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

safferli

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alan_le_cowboy said:
@safferli



You should look there.
Gah! I meant Floating Fortress, but that's researched. Hm, Carrier Aviation is still missing, that is one of the most important doctrines... along the BS path, at least in my opinion. Japan really starts this scenario at a severe doctrinal disadvantage!

alan_le_cowboy said:
@Remble
I thought that CV cannot fight at all during night time.
Did I miss something?
:confused:
They can still fight, but at a penalty. It's 40%, as can be seen in the screenshot. The US have nearly all of the BS doctrines, carriers get better along that path. Better, but still bad. I think carriers start at 60% penalty, slowly reduced to 40%.
 

genbrad

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Thanks for the savegame. I wish I could clue you in on some things, but that would be cheating. All's I can say is, HOLY CRAP LOOK OUT!
 

gooy

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alan_le_cowboy said:
May be problems would be different...
Airpower would be lowered but manpower issue would be reduced...
i think if someone came that far in arma it would be impossible to wear the soviets down. one could only hope that germans would defeat them but i don't know if the AI is capable of doing that as i have never played the 44 scenario. anyway i doubt it.
 

unmerged(63715)

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Dec 20, 2006
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Finally I've caught up again. The things a few days of holiday can do to your AAR-reading schedule ... ;)

It's good to see your airforce finally receive their first J7W2s. It's a pity (from a technological point of view) those birds new saw action in real life. Now we finally have the chance to see how they fare against the USAF.

Good luck with the USS Forrestal. Hopefully you will soon have one less carrier to worry about.
 

unmerged(87183)

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I really liked to new format for your naval battles.

Things look pretty good right now, can't wait to see how the amphibious landing goes.
 

Ruodnane

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Maj. von Mauser said:
I really liked to new format for your naval battles.

Things look pretty good right now, can't wait to see how the amphibious landing goes.

I heartily concur, very dramatic and interesting. One finds oneself appreciating just how much thought and information is contained within normal battle reports. I personally love the mini-drama while hoping to close range or even properly engage the enemy. Komodo is a very hot little aside.
 
Aug 15, 2008
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Okay now youve done it!
You not only made me post, you made me register in order to be able to.

Damn fine AAR, Remble, most impressive.

Im wondering what might have happened, if you had chosen not to defend china at all, and instead had pulled out all but a token force, and invaded america instead...
With the ramshackle defenses the USA usually puts up, I'm thinking you could have seized all of USA for yourself before the soviets ever managed to grab china completely.

Anyway, im looking very much forward to seeing your progress from now on, although its going to be quite a change of pace for me from now on, since I only just managed to catch up. Now I will have to wait for updates, just like everyone else. :(
 

unmerged(63715)

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Argus Eritarami said:
Im wondering what might have happened, if you had chosen not to defend china at all, and instead had pulled out all but a token force, and invaded america instead...
With the ramshackle defenses the USA usually puts up, I'm thinking you could have seized all of USA for yourself before the soviets ever managed to grab china completely.

An interesting thought. The main problem with such an approach would be the loss of significant amounts of IC and resources. In real life, Japan didn't start the war for fun and profit but to secure enough resources to be able to survive without the need for importing vital goods. The same reasons are valid in HoI2: loose China (and India in this case) and Japan's back to where she started from.
 
Aug 15, 2008
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Abandoning China and India to the russians would have the effect of basically rendering the russians powerless to oppose Japan, since they have no navy.
Since the American navy was pretty much crippled early on in the AAR, Im thinking Remble could have used the weakness of their navy to invade.
Blitzing into USA and seizing their vast ressources would imho do a lot more for japan than india and china, and would also remove USA from the war altogether.
With the added industry and ressources USA and the rest of america would provide, the Bear would pretty soon be made into a nice rug infront of the Imperial Fireplace.

Or at least thats my pet theory... :p
 

al_faris

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Argus Eritarami said:
Okay now youve done it!
You not only made me post, you made me register in order to be able to.
:(

AHH another forum virgin been deflowered by the remble!
 

UncleAlias

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I could imagine cold, American heads looking at the situation and concluding that, for the moment, Japan and the Soviet Union slugging it out is the best thing since sliced bread.
 
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UncleAlias: I could imagine cold, American heads looking at the situation and concluding that, for the moment, Japan and the Soviet Union slugging it out is the best thing since sliced bread.


they would be happy strictly for the fact that it ties up the land forces....but on the other hand unless the russians magically come up with a fleet to challenge them on the high seas then the americans are still forced to try small scale invasions of the islands they lost to have bases of operation...

what concerns me is the post from one of the guys who asked for a copy of the save....and then posted the "LOOK OUT" comment...sounds like remble need to do a little recon so that he's not surprised by whats coming next...taking bets on who the agressor is? and since you can't really be all that surprised on land (air force recon is a great thing) I'm guessing a landing behind his lines somewhere....like india
 

unmerged(59906)

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robou - I have no idea yet as I will need to scout the area first. The entire area could be defended and a scouting mission will be part of the plans.

gooy, alan-le-cowboy, robou - The two game versions both have their good and bad points. The bombers effectiveness being reduced is a large plus for HoI2 but Arma does have some lesser advantages. Improved Submarine effectiveness would make my Submarines useful as well as the manpower advantages. Decreasing partisan levels would also greatly decrease my TC problems and allow my forces to fight at higher supply levels. All in all though the bombers are probably the more important factor but even in Arma they are some use when used against smaller sized forces as mine are most of the time.

safferli, allan-le-cowboy - I think you answered eachothers questions :)

Thurak - Some are going by sea I think but most probably walk or redeploy through the Middle East. There is no guarantee that I will do anything in Persia even with the extra forces being sent as recon may not give me a good point to land. The primary target and most threatening enemy is the Soviet Union, and although Persia is a nice little aside it is not critical in any way.

genbrad, GGAllin - Sent to you both :)

genbrad - Ah now I get to wonder about what is going to happen. Probably Soviets as no one else can really hurt me much I don't think. Of course your game will not resemble mine as the AI rarely if ever makes the same Strategic choices from a save game reload. Might be interesting to find out down the road though.

Sokraates - Glad you have caught up and I hope you enjoyed your holiday :)

The J7W2 did see action as is detailed here and it looks like they were pretty effective.

Maj. von Mauser, Ruodnane - From time to time I like to highlight a few things that people seldom look at as its good to know. Naval targetting is rarely discussed and it is interesting to note that neither IJN Yamashiro or Kongo managed to change targets after they sank the destroyer. Also rather odd that the other two Japanese Battleships never even started firing until the next round even though they both had longer firing ranges.

Argus Eritarami - Welcome to the forums and this little AAR and thank you :) Waiting for updates is always a problem but I am a little more frequent than most with those updates.

Argus Eritarami, Sokraates - Actually that would be entirely possible. If I had wanted to I could have gone straight from Hawaii to the mainland United States and withdrawn my army from Asia. The US would be a lot easier to conquer than the Soviet Union and would provide more than enough resources to cover what would be lost in Asia. I could also more or less ignore naval builds once the US is out as no other Nation can compete at sea. Historically and logically Japan would never do that which means neither will I as I try to stick fairly close to the Country I am playing and its real life goals. Not always of course as the War changes events when it does not go historically as this one is doing. I am supposed to be down to almost one island by now and I am not quite to that stage yet :)

al_faris - It is nice to know that my bait is still good enough and it is also encouraging that people still start reading from scratch given the length this is getting to.

Gigalocus - Thanks. Slightly dangerous yes. I have seven Carriers right now with a serial build of two which do not start arriving until early 1948.

UncleAlias, Cyphers Fury - The Americans are probably still breathing a sigh of relief that I stopped at Hawaii. Recon is something I do constantly which prevents most suprises and as I said earlier the save game reload rarely follows the same path. I will let you all guess as to who or what it might be as I may well already know if it happens before the end of January.

Update to follow ...
 

unmerged(59906)

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The Bear

30





0100 December 15th 1946.
The Skies Above Hamhung.

Japanese bombers continued their campaign to reduce the Soviet ground forces in Manchuria and China but they were not the only bombers flying.​

dec15460100gr1.jpg

Despite repeated interceptions over northern Korea Soviet Dive bombers tried to bomb the forces entrenched in Hamhung province. Fukui's Interceptor wing was called into action again to halt the bombing to prevent Japanese forces losing organisation. The results were one sided as always.​





1400 December 15th 1946.
North China Army Headquarters. Lanzhou, China.

The Americans were being persistant over one invasion with Higashikuni receiving word of another attempt against Colombo in Ceylon.​

dec15461400gr1.jpg

The patrolling Submarines headed for the port of the island as a change was detected. This time the invasion had naval support which the Submarines would not be able to deal with. Uchiyama would not need any help anyway as the assault was a hopeless venture. Higashikuni asked for naval assistance to ensure no foothold could be gained if the Americans tried to attack the weaker north part of the island.​

dec15461400gr2.jpg

Forces were already earmarked for Operation Komodo in Persia with Carrier Groups C and D leaving their base in Tokyo and heading for Colombo to investigate the supporting invasion force as the forces mustered for further operations in the Middle East.​

dec15461400gr3.jpg

Admiral Mikawa also left Fukuoka with one Headquarters division embarked as he was to provide the amphibious capability for Operation Komodo. The fleets would require some time to arrive but Higashikuni was confident of holding until they did so.​





2000 December 15th 1946.
BB Division 1 Flagship. IJN Yamashiro, In Transit.

As Ozawa headed back to Japan to adjust his Battlefleets composition he received the latest reports on the hunt for the USS Forrestal. She had last been spotted south of the Marshall Islands and was being hunted by Japanese Naval bombers.​

dec15462000gr1.jpg

Genda would find Glassford and his fleet in the French Frigate Shoals between Midway and the Hawaiian Islands. The last remaining escort Destroyer Division would not survive for long leaving the USS Forrestal as the primary target for further attacks.

Admiral Inoue, commander of 40. Unterseebootsflottille, decided that this would be a good opportunity to attack what was a seemingly weak fleet with no escorts to intervene.​

dec15462300gr1.jpg

His keeness would be his last action as a commander as the strike forces of USS Forrestal sent a clear reminder to other Japanese commanders that a Carrier was not an easy target at any time. Ichimaru and Genda would continue the hunt.​





0000 December 16th 1946.
Intelligence Offices. Tokyo, Japan.

Kuniaki had been saving a research project for one specific team that was ideally suited to carry it out. They just had to complete the current project they were working on first.​

dec16460000gr2.jpg

Kawasaki Heavy Industry finished improving shipyard production which would cut the time needed to construct Japanese ships by a considerable margin. Both Battlecruiser and Carriers currently under construction would become available almost three months earlier as a result. Kuniaki handed them their next project which would help with manpower production once completed. The technology was a little advanced for the time but Kawasaki should have little trouble completing the project in a timely fashion as 1947 was fast approaching.​
 

unmerged(59906)

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0300 December 16th 1946.
North China Army Headquarters. Lanzhou, China.

Higashikuni was still waiting for a reconnaisance report on the enemy forces in Bayan Nur which he would receive from the Dive bombers operating in the area.​

dec16460300gr1.jpg

They had completed their mission to destroy the enemy forces in Hohhot province and found six Headquarters divisions in Bayan Nur which would become their new target. Higashikuni knew that his own defences were safe from such enemy forces and would need to take no action for the time being.​





0900 December 16th 1946.
Kwantung Army Headquarters. Mukden, Manchukuo.

Osami wished to know the current forces stationed in Vladivostok so that he could adjust his plans for invasion accordingly.​

dec16460900gr1.jpg

The Tactical bombers from southern Korea would find out after they had completed the destruction of the enemy division in Tetyukhe province. A second garrison division had arrived with an Armoured division also present for the time being. There was clearly no chance of a direct invasion succeeding now so Osami thought of another way to try and capture the province.​

dec18460300gr1.jpg

On December 18th the final enemy divison in Ulan Hot withdrew leaving the Dive bombers free to investigate the defences of Xinjing province. Nine enemy divisions had taken up residence in the capital of Manchukuo and would require a major effort to remove them. Terauchi would assign his Tactical bomber wing to the task as well as the Dive bombers to try and reduce the defences as quickly as possible before further enemy troops could arrive.​




0500 December 19th 1946.
North China Army Headquarters. Lanzhou, China.

The American Strategic bomber forces operating in India were making a nuisance of themselves as they continously bombed both infrastructure and industry throughout northern India. Higsahikuni had an Interceptor wing in Ahmadabad with which to respond but they had not been upgraded yet. The bombings needed to be halted though and the orders were given to see what the Interceptors could do now that the enemy bombers had started to bomb areas closer to Ahmadabad where the Interceptors could reach.​

dec19460500gr1.jpg

Mj. General Saboru's wing took off in search of the bombers on December 19th and encountered an enemy wing over Jaipur province. Unlike previous encounters between Japanese Interceptors and Allied Strategic bombers and their escorts this one would show the difference between the older non-turbojet aircraft and their more modern counterparts.

By 0900 hours the damage was clear to see as two of the enemy bomber squadrons were close to being completely destroyed by Satoru and his aircraft. The battle was not completely one sided but the Interceptors could compete on equal terms with the bombers now. The two most critically damaged bomber squadrons would not survive the encounter leaving only two to return to base. This enemy bomber wing was not the only one operating in India and Satoru would be required to attack again soon.​

dec19461500gr1.jpg

Further north a Japanese headquarters division had re-taken Erenhot and was immediately forced to return to Changde province. The same orders were given for the Headquarters to destroy as much of the infrastructure as possible during its withdrawal.​

dec19461900gr1.jpg

Higashikuni had not been the only commander to notice the damage to India's northern infrastructure by American Strategic bombers. Soviet forces tried to remove General Abe from Lahore while they had a slight advantage. They chose to attack at night and would not succeed, but the assault had proved to Higashikuni that the Red Army was aware that Japanese forces controlled India and may well try and intervene in that area.

Satoru's Interceptors would be called into action again on December 20th as an American Strategic bomber wing targetted their home province of Ahmadabad.​

dec20460500gr1.jpg

The battle would not go quite so well on this occasion but Satoru's Interceptors did manage to inflict similar damage to the enemy as they received. The bombers would be out of action for some time but so would Satoru. Higashikuni would need a second Interceptor wing to halt the bombings but he would have to wait for upgrades to complete before they would arrive.​

dec20460900gr1.jpg

The arrival of two Soviet divisions in Erenhot caused a switch in the Japanese bombing targets. The Dive bombers that had been targetting Bayan Nur moved to Erenhot with the Tactical bombers that had been operating over Sinkiang moving to cover Bayan Nur for the time being. Erenhot was a vital province in the Japanese defences and a large enemy force could not be allowed to stay there or it could undermine the entire center of the Japanese lines. There was a large Japanese ground force around this area but Soviet forces were also heading in this direction in large numbers.​
 

robou

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6 HQ's? That would be a very nice target to wipe out. As for these American bombers, when another wing arrives and Satoru has finished his upgrades and reinforcements, they will see the power of turbo-jet fighters!
 

UncleAlias

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Argus Eritarami said:
With your need for range, wouldnt fighters be a better choice than interceptors? More range and fewer upgrades... :confused:
Fighters force you to research another branch of the tech tree. If you're not either USSR, Germany or the USA (and possibly UK), it's better to limit your research scope and focus only on a few key tech.