True, but humanist idea gives you also - 2 unrest, so you can be at par with the + 5 of the true faith
The sad state of Eastern Religions and Protestantism
- Thread starter wingzero890
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
- nope, because with -2 unrest i will have +7 with true faith.
In pre WoN buddhists and confucians could have heretic tolerance as high as their true faith, this gave them real edge and made them quite unique, because it gave them ability to easily expand in asian and indian regions without much conversion, now they simply suck.
Last edited:
PI stated several times that they would wish to revisit the Eastern religions so I think a DLC focusing on them will come sooner or later.
Shinto in-game represents the union of their folk religion (Shinto) and the Japanese Buddhism (which does have some differences from the other Buddhist sects). Both were treated as one religion until the Meiji restoration.
True, there were those who followed Buddhism exclusively, but it didn't really affect that much and it had no influence on the local religion where both were practiced had-in-hand.
So other than the name, I don't see the problem here.
Shinto in-game represents the union of their folk religion (Shinto) and the Japanese Buddhism (which does have some differences from the other Buddhist sects). Both were treated as one religion until the Meiji restoration.
True, there were those who followed Buddhism exclusively, but it didn't really affect that much and it had no influence on the local religion where both were practiced had-in-hand.
So other than the name, I don't see the problem here.
"Problem" is the same as with any requests for change: increasing joy of playing
Also I doubt anyone could treat shinto and buddhism as one religion. They are just too different.
There should be multiple different potential buffs for Prostestants that are attached to the nation. A new ruler can only change it once and it would spawn unrest and other debuffs while the transition is made.
I could see a denomonation mechanic for Protestants. You choose one when you convert and get certain (probably relatively large) bonuses from it, the catch being that it's destabilizing (or dangerous or perhaps even impossible in normal circumstances) to switch to another. This would also be a relatively clean way to include smaller groups of Protestant (or Protestant-like) Christians that currently get little exposure (like the Hussites, Anabaptists, Pentecostals, Evangelicals, etc.).
Problem is, this'd end up being just another button you press and then forget about for the rest of the game, which doesn't make it very exciting to interact with. Maybe it's just me, but the Protestant denominations don't seem to lend themselves to active game mechanics very well.
Problem is, this'd end up being just another button you press and then forget about for the rest of the game, which doesn't make it very exciting to interact with. Maybe it's just me, but the Protestant denominations don't seem to lend themselves to active game mechanics very well.
Shintoism is a mix of old pagan religions in Japan and Buddhism. Saying they are exactly the same is quite simply not true, as Buddhism does not have deities like Amaterasu, though it is true that they were almost the same in practice before the Meiji restoration, as Shinto temples with Buddhist shrines were commonplace.
AND many religions shouldn't get stab hits when declaring war on somebody with wich they have a marriage. Many marriages between kingdoms outside europe were considered more as a gift, and many were just concubines or part of a harem, a relationship bonus, not a dynastic link.
Also, it has some influencies from christian theology, albeit much recycled.
The problem with protestantism and specially lutheranism is that it makes religion something very private. Thus, the influence in politics is much more limited, and because many protestant states had a state religion, this is more or less under the state's command and not the other way arround. The bonuses you said are splendid, but maybe they could come with a slider of strictness. The more strict you are, the higher is the value from the bonus you chose, but more problems you have while treating with other nations, protestant included.
There should be at LEAST some passives more than "tolerance of heretics/heathens" for the eastern countries. Religious unity, reduced unrest, reduced nationalism, accepted culture bonuses, and extra diplomats or merchants would all be decent options to add to those religions in small amounts that would make them more feasible without making them overpowered or spending lots of time on them. Anything would be better than what we have though
I disagree on it being worth it. It's time consuming and requires mass conquest with tanked unity or selling land off to vassals and spending a lot of points. If you have religious ideas and take the decisions, Confucianism gets to base 6% from decisions/base and another 3% from divine supremacy. That's enough oomph to convert a hostile culture Sunni province with less than 10 tax, especially if you have stability or an inquisitor.
Another alternative is simply going exploration (something those with such faiths need to westernize early) --> humanist and activating the policy, blithely ignoring having to convert anything ever (you will have way more heretic tolerance than you need even at 0 legitimacy, and spend -1 dip/month for 75% unity +2 tolerance from heathen provinces).
IMO either snipe Rome for a 3rd missionary + take religious + maybe expansion or just go humanist and ignore your faith entirely, bland as that is it does at least carry convenience.
Yeah, that could be quite a good mechanic, if handled properly. I know I'd have a blast playing a nutso Anabaptist Munster, exporting religious rebels to everyone else in the HRE. The main worry I'd have is just that the denominational bonuses would be too conventional or too similar to the bonuses other religions get (ie stability, missionary strength, morale of armies, manpower).
On the topic of eastern religions, Confucianism/Chinese Traditional Religion should really offer some significant bonuses to the stability of large nations, seeing as how so much of Confucius's work was really about respect for existing power structures and one's elders. Dunno what mechanic you could apply to Chinese syncretism in general though.
The Coptic bonus is pretty good because it stacks with trading in coffee, defensive mentality, and hostile borders so you get like 75%+ defensive with it. It basically exists as a religion for Ethiopia, and that's about it. If you had Coptic France though it'd take half an hour to siege anything though. :laugh:
I think virtually all the non-christian religions should have +2.00 to heir-chance because they had concubines or multiple wives or both. I'm endlessly annoyed to see Ottomans ruled by someone called "Menteşeoğlu" or whatever
I don't disagree with that, but pious muslims get better fort defense. Even only being 50% pious will give you +5% morale +10% fort defense and +1.5% missionary strength, on top of whatever sect bonus you have (Sunni/Shia/Ibadi).
Christian decisions slap piety silly. Islam still can convert fast thanks to extra missionaries though.
Those decisions are mostly just missionary strength and tolerance modifiers. I disagree that it 'slaps (piety) silly', but that's just my playstyle I suppose.
Protestant (not reformed) seemed to exist for the sake of large, powerful monarchies. It would be nice if it allowed functional events that helped with legitimacy, or stability, or maybe fire it to get away with negative diplomatic actions without the stab hit. I really like how reformed is; I think most people do. It's not OP, but it's fun, if you're into that. Catholic is awful. I'm not sure who decided that catholic should be the religion of only Europe, but it's nuts that the faith is borderline useless for the very many "primitive" converts across the world that shouldn't have to be angry if their western religion is catholic instead of the other 2, since they won't get cardinals and therefore won't get anything useful out of it. Catholic is basically the worst religion aside from totem/animal if you aren't in Europe - awful design.
Eastern religions just need general attention paid to them, but so does a lot of the east in general, so I imagine it's coming.
Eastern religions just need general attention paid to them, but so does a lot of the east in general, so I imagine it's coming.
I don't know about the other churches, but in England there was a prolonged fight over the nature of the new Church, and different factions were in power at different times. Things got especially heated in the reign of Charles I and during the 'Interregnum'. It was only in the second half of the 17th century that the more moderate/traditionalist faction definitively took charge of the Church and the more radical Protestants were officially excluded from it.
@yerm: I think the problem with Catholic at the moment is the way Papal Influence is calculated. It's fair enough that non-Europeans don't get to control the Pope, but they should have access to the Catholic boons (the ones where you spend PI to gain legitimacy, money, manpower and so on). Unfortunately, unless you take Religious ideas or your country has a special bonus, lack of cardinals now means a papal influence income so negligible that you can hardly ever afford the boons, so they may as well not be there. I think as far as papal influence is concerned, we should go back to the old system where you get a decent baseline income of PI just from religious unity and having lots of Catholic provinces, and Cardinals just provide a bonus. It does have to be balanced carefully though, so that the boons don't become overpowered for countries like Spain that stack PI like crazy.
Last edited: