The russian question +more

[unmerged(22680)]

I have been replaying Hearts of Iron several times, trying to re-enact operation barbarossa and gain the historical borders by christmas 1941. However, the russians always have ridiculous amounts of divisions. If I attack a soviet army with a german army of equal size, they never really seem to win, although in summer 1941 the soviets were completely swept aside. So basically, what are people's tactics against the soviet union? (dont get me wrong, I usually achieve the bitter peace by 1944).

Also, how do people organise their armies. I usually organise them into 3-division strong corps, and rarely mix division types (eg panzerkorps, infanteriekorps, (mot) korps, etc). What is the optimum organisation?

How is air power most effectively utilised? Any tips for combined arms offensives?

Can mechanized units blitz?

Finally, how can london be captured? Starving the british defenders never seems to work. And when I attack, the 'city bonus' usually ends up slaughtering my forces.

 

[unmerged(33615)]

I solve the problem with the SU > 250 divs normally as follows (but for this you need a long preparation period, so usually I start war in the east in 42 and sometimes in 43):

In addition to the existing troops,
- You need at least 6(4) tank korps (with each 6 tank divs -all of them enlarged with engineers- if possible use "panthers 80 mm"), you can also add one inf div with no affect to the speed of the complete corps
- You need at least 4(6) mech/mot "mixed korps" (containing each 3x mechanized+ari, 1x mot.+aa, 1x mot.+at, 1x mot.+engineers)
- You need at least 4 huge air groups (containing each 4 fighter, 8 hori. or dive bombers)
- Your better have some paratroopers with transporters

With this airpower you can weaken two points and your can break trough with each 5 corps to the weakened two main baatle regions (should be at least to regions between these "hot spots"). Then encircle the regions between and push them to surrender. Meanwhile move 2-4 of your fast tank corps further east to occupy important regions (e.g. Stalingrad, Leningrad or Moskau) For this fast plot to the east and the folowing big encircle-manouvers it es favorable to use 2-3 divs of paratroopers (incl. transporters of course) each for its own to occupy 2-3 not defended terretories in a rowt. This normally confuses the sov defenders and they normally start to withdraw troops to the new fighting regions. Be aware of this and prepare your tank korps to give them a "warm welcome". It is then very easy to encircle these incoming troops and destroy them in large numbers (because they have an org-level of 0% when occuring). Use your "mixed korps" after the first pocket-battle to secure supply lines to the new battle fields in the east.

Normally this leads to a chain-reaction of the complete eastern front, if you are fast engouh. After huge losses su starts to produce militia-troops for substitution. If this occurs you have won and its only a question of time...

 

[unmerged(32570)]

where is the problem?

I can only join the opinion of the pre-poster,

just use the classic way the germans were famous for - do the blitzkrieg. Concentrate fast and hard-hitting forces in one place, defeat the enemy at one province and rush into the gap with the rest of your army, heading for further, weak guarded provinces. This forces the enemy to draw back, trying to stop your assault at a line, deeper in his own country. The effect is a new front-line, 500 miles beyond the former one.
Repeat this process several times until you recognize that your panthers just passed magnitogorsk - quite easy.

It's funny, it even works if you are inferior to the soviets, just keep them moving, organizing new defensive lines. Don't offer them a chance to start a well organized attack!

 

[korny]

By the time I invade the USSR I usually have:

16-22 infantry armies of 6 divisions setup like this 1 ART, 1 AT, 1 AA, 1 ENG, 2 REG all lead by a FM.

4-8 Tank armies of 4 divisions each setup like this 1 ART, 1 AT, 1 AA, 1 ENG all lead by a FM.

6-12 Mech armies of 4 divisions each setup like this 1 ART, 1 AT, 1 AA, 1 ENG all lead by a FM.

1 mnt army of 6 divisions all ENG all lead by a FM fortress buster.

2 groups of 6 tac bombers all lead by an AM.

I never need fighters on the USSR front cuz all my armies all have AA and quicky shred the USSR airforce in the first month or two

So I guess the raw numbers are:

96-132 inf divisions
16-32 tank divisions
24-48 mech divisions
6 mnt divisons
12 tac bombers

I just make a solid line of inf armies and my tanks and mechs blitz and encircle them while my inf keep pusing the line forward...
During the winter my tanks and mech go on the def(mostly) and my inf do most of the attacking that way I keep the pressure on and never give them a chance to catch their breath...

Of course the inf come in handy for attacking mnts/swamps/urban also.

 

[unmerged(4854)]

I usually attack as early as possible before they pile up more divisions and tech, usually in the summer of '40.

I organize my Infantry into 3 or 6 size groups. I make "shock" groups of 3A, AT, AA, E give them the best leaders and try to use them as much as possible.

I usually have at least 12 tanks and try to get the same number of mech, and continue building and deploying in packs of 3 during the war. Some 3 packs I build as all Eng for river crossings and fast exploits, some I build as heavy units which are an A,AT,AA. The rest are vanilla.

I have 1 div bomb group, and try to get 2 full tac groups.

The focus of the attack is encircling and destroying divisions. First target is usually the south, it's easy to isolate the 2 former Romanian territories and trap about 30 divisions. Then the marshes, I usually take that in two bites, east and west of pinsk. Use your tanks and mech inf on the clear terrain and your infantry for the swamps, bomb as much as you can. Third encirclement is in the north, usually in the baltics somewhere, after that you should have numerical superiority and you can push them back with ease.

Generally I try to attack from as many provinces as I can, and in all battles watch the first little bit carefully, if you are getting beaten retreat, if it's close decide if it's worth the casualities and if it is bomb in support. If the Soviets attack with a large force from multiple provinces retreat and counterattack to try and cut them off.

I usually get bitter peace in about 15 months.

 

[unmerged(22680)]

Thanks guys - I'll try each of these strategies.

 

[unmerged(33254)]

reply

yeah London can be taken, I have decimated the British various times, and captured bags of 40-50 divisions. I have taken control of the whole island.

 

[Pro_Consul]

If the Soviets attack with a large force from multiple provinces retreat and counterattack to try and cut them off.

Actually there is an even easier way to deal with a large Sov attack. When you see the forces moving to the offensive, just use your tanks/mechs to attack somewhere else in the same theater. The Sovs always cancel attacks when they detect a break in their lines somewhere else in the same theater.

 

[unmerged(4854)]

Actually there is an even easier way to deal with a large Sov attack. When you see the forces moving to the offensive, just use your tanks/mechs to attack somewhere else in the same theater. The Sovs always cancel attacks when they detect a break in their lines somewhere else in the same theater.

I have tried that but in my experience they don't always cancel attacks. One time they were pushing me back in the north at the same time as my tanks/mechs were taking a bunch of provinces in the south.

 

[Pro_Consul]

I have tried that but in my experience they don't always cancel attacks. One time they were pushing me back in the north at the same time as my tanks/mechs were taking a bunch of provinces in the south.

Your forces have to be faster for the trick to work, which is why I specify using tanks and/or mechs. When you see his forces go on the march you have to be able to get your forces into combat, and the battle won, BEFORE his attack forces arrive. Once his attack forces arrive and engage, he will not retreat them back out of the battle in response to a threat elsewhere. But he will always stop them marching if he sees a hole in his line BEFORE they arrive.

 

[Pro_Consul]

But he will always stop them marching if he sees a hole in his line BEFORE they arrive.

I also meant to add that you must make sure you are talking about the same theater. He is not going to cancel an attack on Minsk in order to plug a hole in his line at Baku, for example. But he will cancel an attack on Minsk to plug a hole in his line at Vinnytsa.

 

[unmerged(22680)]

I played hearts of Iron today (for about two hours too long!) and discovered that the best way to beat the USSR playing from the 'blitzkrieg' scenario is to research loads of army doctrine and infantry, with a sub-priority placed on air techs.

Having defeated France and Poland, by May 1941 I attacked with the majority of my forces concentrated on Grobylinsk (or whatever), and then encircled the soviets in Grodno, and in the Baltic states. In the south I encircled them at Beltsy and Chisinau. Later on in the campaign I performed a massive encirclement from Moskva to Kiev, which destroyed 65 divisions(!). This broke the back of russian resistance. I would stress that as soon as you reach a province bordering a city like stalingrad, leningrad or Moskva, go for it before they have time to reinforce, as city fighting is incredibly difficult and costly.

Early in the campaign, I would have a Manoeuvre doctrine chief of staff, later a School of Psychology man.

My airforce, which was by 1941 the largest, was organised into fleets of 6-8 squadrons. By having researched loads of army doctrine tech and using airpower, I was easiy able to defeat soviet armies twice the size of my own attacking forces.

After a year I had captured Magnitogorsk, and the bitter peace was sweetened by the taste of victory. Thanks for the tips guys.