The Roman Caliphate

[Gunthah]

During my game the Byzantine Emperor seems to have picked up a few tricks from the caliphs and declared himself religious as well as political leader. I don't know how this has happened and I wonder if it is a bug. According to the Ecumenical Patriarchate's history he just inherited the title. Has anyone seen this happen?

I wonder if the title of Byzantine Emperor can still be challenged from within by a faction, because it doesn't seem like anyone will be getting claims if it is now a religious position.

 

[Strangedane]

I got precisely the same in my current game.

Changes the empire into open elective and everything.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=655145644

Funny thing is, once in a while the two titles split for a while, and there's a patriarch of the empire with the ecumenical patriarch as a king level vassal, who holds ALL the other vassals.
They don't expand much, but they seem superstable.

 

[kmh42]

Look at the history from the Byzantine emperor title. It look like a faction succeed to depose the current emperor and install the patriarch

 

[Alcadizzar19]

Caesaropapism at its finest.

 

[Gunthah]

Look at the history from the Byzantine emperor title. It look like a faction succeed to depose the current emperor and install the patriarch

He had been the emperor for eight years already before it happened.

 

[Alcadizzar19]

He had been the emperor for eight years already before it happened.

Did the patriarch have any vassals who could faction for an installation of claimant against him?

Alternatively, there was a bug once where when you renounced Iconoclasm the Patriarchate would be given to the Basileus, which would overwrite the feudal title and make the ERE a theocracy. That might be happening here depending on what version of the game you're running.

 

[Gunthah]

I got precisely the same in my current game.

Changes the empire into open elective and everything.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=655145644

Funny thing is, once in a while the two titles split for a while, and there's a patriarch of the empire with the ecumenical patriarch as a king level vassal, who holds ALL the other vassals.
They don't expand much, but they seem superstable.

They finally found a way to avoid constant civil wars. I'm happy for them.

 

[Gunthah]

Ok, I think I figured it out. The previous emperor granted the Theme of Dioclea to someone and then made him the vassal of the Patriarch. When the Strategos died the duchy title went up to the Patriarch and when the Patriarch died both the duchy and the Patriarchate went up to the new emperor. Pretty definitely a bug.

 

[Alcadizzar19]

I had never considered transferring vassals to the Patriarch as a king-level vassal. I'm not sure if I will do such (or if it's even possible, I'm not at my home computer to test) in fear of tripping this problem but it might be useful since they're usually old and can have a problem vassal under them for a while at least.

 

[Dakilla TM]

Misleading title maybe?

I thought I was gonna see a Sunni/Shia/Ibadi Roman Emperor who's also the Caliph

 

[Rory1237]

Sounds like a fun alternate history play-through. Maintaining the theocratic empire as a powerful vassal. Unifying Christendom under his glorious rule!

 

[gnashar]

Ok, I think I figured it out. The previous emperor granted the Theme of Dioclea to someone and then made him the vassal of the Patriarch. When the Strategos died the duchy title went up to the Patriarch and when the Patriarch died both the duchy and the Patriarchate went up to the new emperor. Pretty definitely a bug.

Definitely. I raised a bug for this last week. In my case, I pressed a claim for the empire, only to find myself become the patriarch when the previous patriarch died, as he had inherited a theme. When he died, both the patriarchy and theme passed to me.

 

[Gunthah]

Definitely. I raised a bug for this last week. In my case, I pressed a claim for the empire, only to find myself become the patriarch when the previous patriarch died, as he had inherited a theme. When he died, both the patriarchy and theme passed to me.

Did this cause a game over? Just curious.

 

[gnashar]

Did this cause a game over? Just curious.

No, but I had a warning that I would lose my titles on succession as I was a theocracy. I think all my vassals had a -20 wrong government opinion of me too. Regardless, I rage quit as it was ironman.

It happened a second time in another game when I was playing as queen of Italy and pushing my husband's claim to Byzantium. That time, he also inherited the patriarchy (even though he was Catholic). Long story short, that ended badly too...

 

[Karlingid]

Ave, Pontifex

 

[alscon]

That bug is deadly and has been there for some time. I had a game over once because the death of my nephew-patriarch made my Buddhist heir Patriarch. He stayed Buddhist - problem was that I couldn't inherit a theocracy, my ruler had already changed succession.

Only positive (if you see it as positive) is that the ERE is stable as a theocracy.