The rise of the Hohenzollerns, 1192-1399: A mega campaign beginning CK2 AAR

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Yenzen

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Not in a faction. In such a fight you would be limited to internal allies and so, to my knowledge would he.

correction, he can call in allies but you however cannot. ...
correction correction: Just experimented and for factions to push someone's claim, it would appear that you can call in any allies that share the same liege (or are independent, if you are too) meaning for non-independence movements you get to call in all other direct vassals and all your usable alliances.

I really need to do some more experimenting. It is annoying how incomplete documentation for this stuff is.

For a regular independence fight, or any non-faction war for that matter, you can call in allies that are vassals of your direct liege. If you are rebelling against your duke, this should be the emperor unless there is a king acting below him. That is, you can call in other dukes and kings in the HRE as long as the emperor is their direct liege (and they are your allies by marriage of course). Were you rebelling against the Emperor proper, you could call in any independent allies since there would be nobody above you (you are de-facto an independent entity until the rebellion is complete, de-jure if you win and and it is for independence of course.)

In an internal faction war, you could call in every single direct vassal of the relevant realm as long as it is not for independence, changing crown authority or the succession method in which case you are limited to the members of the faction. The same applies external allies, which you cannot call in the three mentioned cases, but you can in a faction for a claimant.

Edited to hell, sorry for any misdirection if you read this earlier. It would seem I had some misconceptions. The gist of it seems that some factions like independence / changing sucession laws and lowering crown authority factions are limited to their members, while other factions (install claimants) work like regular wars, where you either temporarily step one de-facto level up in the hierarchy or become independent if you're already a vassal of the top dog.

Since installing claimants allows you to try and call in every vassal of the title plus external allies, this seems the best way to push a claim by far. On the other hand, a normal war for independence or overthrowing your ruler may be wise if you can secure strong, external allies.
 
Last edited:

Avindian

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Not in a faction. In such a fight you would be limited to internal allies and so, to my knowledge would he.

correction, he can call in allies but you however cannot. ...
correction correction: Just experimented and for factions to push someone's claim, it would appear that you can call in any allies that share the same liege (or are independent, if you are too) meaning for non-independence movements you get to call in all other direct vassals and all your usable alliances.

I really need to do some more experimenting. It is annoying how incomplete documentation for this stuff is.

For a regular independence fight, or any non-faction war for that matter, you can call in allies that are vassals of your direct liege. If you are rebelling against your duke, this should be the emperor unless there is a king acting below him. That is, you can call in other dukes and kings in the HRE as long as the emperor is their direct liege (and they are your allies by marriage of course). Were you rebelling against the Emperor proper, you could call in any independent allies since there would be nobody above you (you are de-facto an independent entity until the rebellion is complete, de-jure if you win and and it is for independence of course.)

In an internal faction war, you could call in every single direct vassal of the relevant realm as long as it is not for independence, changing crown authority or the succession method in which case you are limited to the members of the faction. The same applies external allies, which you cannot call in the three mentioned cases, but you can in a faction for a claimant.

Edited to hell, sorry for any misdirection if you read this earlier. It would seem I had some misconceptions. The gist of it seems that some factions like independence / changing sucession laws and lowering crown authority factions are limited to their members, while other factions (install claimants) work like regular wars, where you either temporarily step one de-facto level up in the hierarchy or become independent if you're already a vassal of the top dog.

Since installing claimants allows you to try and call in every vassal of the title plus external allies, this seems the best way to push a claim by far. On the other hand, a normal war for independence or overthrowing your ruler may be wise if you can secure strong, external allies.

Isn't this faction business moot at the moment, since I can't start my own faction?
 

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Is the option greyed out, or..?

You could maybe still use it to push a faction that may benefit you otherwise, the answer was mostly to outline when you could call in allies (and when he could).
 

Gen. Marshall

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After a long day's work and some unhelpful colleagues (suggesting Hermann, Heinrich, Erwin, Joachim, and more Nazi's first names), here's what I've come up with:

Male: Maximilian von Hohenzollern
Female: Anna von Hohenzollern
 

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After a long day's work and some unhelpful colleagues suggesting Hermann, Heinrich, Erwin, Joachim, and more Nazi's first names

That is just funny and kind of sad... :rofl:
 

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Ach! You jumped the shark on me, Avindian! Good story and a megacampaign too! Excellent! I can't wait to see how the Hohenzollerns turn out in Victoria 2!

PS-- Can you believe this, some unknown idiot just asked if I was selling my laptop! The only way I can play EU3 and Victoria 2! WTF!



Good luck in your War for Independence! Kick names and take but! Or something like that...
 

Avindian

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Is the option greyed out, or..?

You could maybe still use it to push a faction that may benefit you otherwise, the answer was mostly to outline when you could call in allies (and when he could).

I can't choose myself or one of my family members.

After a long day's work and some unhelpful colleagues (suggesting Hermann, Heinrich, Erwin, Joachim, and more Nazi's first names), here's what I've come up with:

Male: Maximilian von Hohenzollern
Female: Anna von Hohenzollern

It shall be so!

That is just funny and kind of sad... :rofl:

If it were entirely up to me, a third of the people would be named Hans. Names are surprisingly hard for me sometimes.

Ach! You jumped the shark on me, Avindian! Good story and a megacampaign too! Excellent! I can't wait to see how the Hohenzollerns turn out in Victoria 2!

PS-- Can you believe this, some unknown idiot just asked if I was selling my laptop! The only way I can play EU3 and Victoria 2! WTF!



Good luck in your War for Independence! Kick names and take but! Or something like that...

A travesty of the highest order; I'm delighted you turned them out! Welcome aboard!
 

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If it were entirely up to me, a third of the people would be named Hans. Names are surprisingly hard for me sometimes.

Ah, yes. I know that feeling... It's really annoying at times
 

Avindian

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Mr. Capiatlist

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But Klaus is so much better. ;)
 

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Mr. Capiatlist

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Avindian

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I named one of my future characters Klaus. ;)

I played to 1292 (100 year anniversary!), so I've got lots of material for updates again. I'll probably start next week.
 

Avindian

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Chapter 11: The Hohenzollern War for Independence

4 December 1258, Schloss Nürnberg

With all the improvements to Nürnberg over the years, Friedrich III von Hohenzollern finally felt he could properly call his a castle a palace. His grandfather (God rest his soul) had spent thousands of thalers to improve both the castle itself and its outbuildings, increasing the number of cavalry, archers, and pikemen that could be raised from Nürnberg. Now, it was up to the son to build a family. To do that, he needed a wife. He chose Christine Welf; she was heir to no title, yet she complemented him well; with his skill in espionage and combat, hers in scholarship and stewardship, they were an unbeatable team.

swife.jpg


Christine was an impressive woman. She was born with a disfiguring scar on her right cheek, a deformity that saw her spend much time in her room alone. Her parents claimed that the doctor had been drunk, which begged the question: why would a man of medicine have his scalpel out anyway? Instead of being crippled by her scar, she rose above it. She would never be considered a great beauty -- although her blue eyes were especially piercing -- but her mind, will, and zeal for the word of God made her most formidable. So formidable that most men feared her. Friedrich III, the homely scion of the House of Hohenzollern, and Christine, the scarred princess of Welf, made a perfect match. Her son Gottfried remained in Anhalt, to be raised by his grandparents; they'd never liked Christine, and considered her a whore for marrying again so quickly after her first husband's death.

Even Ordulf, his Uncle and heir, liked her. That was rare indeed; Ordulf had developed something of a reputation for being a hermit, although not the same sort of hermit Friedrich's father had been -- instead, he was a hermit by temperament. Very few people liked him. Ordulf's own wife, Sofie, was dull and uninteresting, but could stand Ordulf for longer than ten minutes at a stretch; they were practically made for each other. Friedrich certainly thought Christine was made for him.

Christine and Friedrich III vowed to prove the world wrong, that physical appearance did not determine destiny. Unfortunately for them, the world would object. Quite strenuously.
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24 January 1260, München

The Graf von Nürnberg. Passau, Ulm, und Salzburg was formally in München as Duke Ludwig II's guest. With his new daughter, Gisela, Friedrich III had been granted a temporary reprieve from paying homage to his lord, but only a temporary one. The Mongol sack of Baghdad had shaken things up in eastern Europe, and even the Kaiser himself was said to consider force the only way to stop the infidel savages. Friedrich III agreed only because it was his duty to agree; otherwise, he didn't really care. His own concerns were much closer to home.

Friedrich III needed gold. No, more than needed -- lusted after gold. He loved the texture, the color, the weight, everything. He'd already wastefully spent thaler after thaler completely redecorating Schloss von Hohenzollern (he'd renamed it since the Barony of Zollern was unlikely to return to his hands). He couldn't fulfill his father's last wish without gold either. He'd been learning from his wife how to improve his stewardship, but it would almost certainly take some time to accomplish that. In the meantime, his best method for seizing the Ducal crown of Bayern was to eliminate Ludwig II.

dieludwigii.jpg


He'd learned that Ordulf's wife gave him a claim to the Duchy of Savoy, but alas, the Kaiser had forbidden fighting between his vassals. That any man should presume to tell him what he could and could not do rankled the Graf von Nürnberg. Friedrich III even quietly promised to himself that he would not stop at any mere title of "Herzog", but that "König" or even "Kaiser" was his. The first step along that path was to cripple the Wittelsbach. Normally, his father, as Spymaster, would have done this task, but Friedrich III was a vengeful man. In fact, if he could, he would have killed the Herzog von Bayern himself.

All he needed was an opportunity.
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16 April 1260, Schloss von Hohenzollern, Nürnberg

Friedrich III's plan was thwarted by a simple unavoidable fact; the people of Bayern, damn them, genuinely loved their lord and master. While Ludwig I had been hated by more than a few of his courtiers, Ludwig II had no such problem. Only one solitary noble backed Friedrich's plot, and that just wasn't enough to get things done. With a deep breath, the head of the Hohenzollerns gathered his council and prepared for war.

independencewar.jpg


The plan was simple: gather the armies to him in Nürnberg, then strike at the enemy before he had a chance to do the same.

thiswillbeacinch.jpg


In terms of raw troops, the Herzog von Bayern and Graf von Nürnberg were roughly equal in quantity. Each had four Counties. The difference was the inestimable allies of Ludwig II -- the Dukes of Normandy, Aquitaine, and Lancaster and the Counts of Leicester and Dax all counted Ludwig II among their closest friends through his wife, Engeltraud. Ludwig also had a larger retinue -- 4000 strong to Friedrich's 1500 -- but Friedrich had employed the famed and brutal Swiss Company, 3340 soldiers strong. It would depend entirely on the strength, courage, and cunning of Friedrich's men.
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29 September 1260, Teck Castle, Ulm

Friedrich III, Ordulf, and Marshal Gottfried gathered together for one last planning session. Their first two battles had gone very well, but hadn't made much of a dent in the forces of Ludwig II. Friedrich parted with 150 thalers to buy a contract for the Pecheneg Company, a group of marauders from the east. They claimed to have honed their skills against the Khan of the Golden Horde; whether that was true or not was impossible to tell.

Friedrich III drew his sword, Gotteszorn, from his scabbard. The blade had been given to him as part of his dowry from Christine; it was made of the finest Spanish steel, crafted by the finest smiths in the Holy Roman Empire, even blessed by the Pope by himself. Yes, "God's Wrath" was a fine name for his sword. The old family blade had been buried with his grandfather, as per the late Graf's will. Friedrich III inspected the blade, never before used in battle. The balance was perfect, both edges perfectly keen. The hilt still smelled of new leather. After wiping the blade gently with a cloth, the Graf von Nürnberg sheathed it. "Marshal, how shall we proceed?"

Gottfried was an old man now, his beard completely white, yet he was the greatest warrior Friedrich had ever seen. "My lords, we are weakest in the middle. While the Wittelsbach have three even columns, ours are not. I am most worried about the left flank, if the truth be known; the Pechenegs are wild and do not listen to instruction well. My Lord Graf, that is where you will do the most good." Friedrich nodded. "Lord Ordulf, you will take the other wing. If we win this day, it shall be there -- their commander is a pathetic bishop with no battlefield experience." Ordulf nodded as well. "My role shall be to absorb the brunt of the initial wave. Good?"

Friedrich and Ordulf nodded one last time, then rode to rejoin their men, leaving the Marshal standing alone. This may be my last battle. I've fought all my life, but no one battle is more important than this one. If I win, I will be knighted, maybe even formally adopted as a Hohenzollern. If I fail, I may be replaced. God, look down on us this day with favor and grace.

Battle was joined. [1]

theepicbattle.jpg

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24 October 1260, the battlefield of Teck

Everything had been perfect, as battles often were. Gottfried had evaluated the Bavarian troops almost perfectly. It was his own men he didn't understand. It all came down to one unit.

The Pechenegs. They broke and ran within two days of the beginning of the battle. Friedrich did his best to rally them, but it was of no use. The Graf avoided capture narrowly, but was able to join Gottfried in the middle of the line. For days, it took a brutal pounding; Ordulf, instead of being able to throw his entire force at the enemy's left, had to hold his position and endure the ceaseless stream of arrows. Earlier that afternoon, Gottfried's own troops started to waver, and rather than risk destruction, Gottfried ordered them to drop back. It would take a miracle to pull out a victory here.

doomissurenow.jpg

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16 May 1261, München

It seemed God had spent all of his miracles for the Hohenzollerns. The battle of Teck had been a catastrophe.

battleofteckloss.jpg


It was easy to see why he had lost, in hindsight. Friedrich III had quite simply been unprepared for the massive archery swarm that hit him, followed by heavy infantry. The Pechenegs were worse than useless; the only area in which Nürnberg had greater numbers was in light troops. A bunch of eastern barbarians had cost Friedrich III his counties and, quite possibly, his life. He would never get to see his baby daughter, Konstanze, he feared.

konstanzev.jpg


Teck hadn't been the end of his campaign, not by a long shot. Instead, he was defeated at the Battle of Innsbruck. Every one of Ludwig's allies had honored their call -- every one of Friedrich's had stayed home.

allbutdoomed.jpg


The only thing that stood between Friedrich III and joining his grandfather was the mercy of Ludwig II, Herzog von Bayern.

thepainofdefeat.jpg


Would the Wittelsbach show mercy? Or would Ordulf von Hohenzollern be given the painful task of shepherding the Hohenzollerns through their darkest hour yet?
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[1] This battle was a revelation -- I am absolutely terrible at combat in this game. Until just now, I had no idea you could move people around in your army. Or that the skirmish phase came first. Or that light infantry and skirmishers had little value. Unfortunately, I did not have these revelations while I was still playing the game. For what actually happened... well, you'll just have to wait and see!
 

Michaelangelo

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You seem to have terrible luck with wars. It's like the game doesn't want you to succeed. Though in reality, you just have to survive until 1399, since you'll most certainly kick butt when you convert to EUIII. ;)

Well it's good that you noticed that you can move people around in battle. I had no idea that was possible. I'm learning so much more about this game from this AAR so I won't completely fail the next time I play it. :p
 

Mr. Capiatlist

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You seem to have terrible luck with wars. It's like the game doesn't want you to succeed. Though in reality, you just have to survive until 1399, since you'll most certainly kick butt when you convert to EUIII. ;)
That is, to be honest, the hardest part about any megacampaign. In my Byzantine one, there was nothing to do in Victoria, really. I had to wait the game out so that I'd have something to do in HoI.
 

Barsoom

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[[1] This battle was a revelation -- I am absolutely terrible at combat in this game. Until just now, I had no idea you could move people around in your army. Or that the skirmish phase came first. Or that light infantry and skirmishers had little value. Unfortunately, I did not have these revelations while I was still playing the game. For what actually happened... well, you'll just have to wait and see!
It seems you also had terrain against you. There's a little circle with a green plus below the defenders in the battle screen that tells you that. Were you aware that you were attacking in hilly or mountainous terrain? Or, god forbid, across a river?
 

Ricardo Rolo

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It seems you also had terrain against you. There's a little circle with a green plus below the defenders in the battle screen that tells you that. Were you aware that you were attacking in hilly or mountainous terrain? Or, god forbid, across a river?
Yeah, the terrain bonus for the defender was most likely the biggest culprit ( river crossing + mountains given the pic posted ). It would have been far more productive to go siege the enemy capital while giving a eye to the enemy stack to see signs of weakness. That part is actually quite similar to EUIII warfare ;)
 

Gen. Marshall

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You have no idea how happy this update made me ;)

During the time I've been in AARland, I've always thought that AARs about a country in despair were much more fun than a "lookz I concuer de world wit the HRE!" AAR. As our great house moderator Mr. Capiatlist noted, this is especially true for megacampaigns, where the real trick is not conquering too much.
 

Avindian

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You seem to have terrible luck with wars. It's like the game doesn't want you to succeed. Though in reality, you just have to survive until 1399, since you'll most certainly kick butt when you convert to EUIII. ;)

Well it's good that you noticed that you can move people around in battle. I had no idea that was possible. I'm learning so much more about this game from this AAR so I won't completely fail the next time I play it. :p

I'd really like to see an excellent tutorial for this game. (And no, I won't be writing it, at least not now. ;)) It's mostly self-explanatory, certainly compared to other Paradox games, but a lot of little stuff is less obvious.

That is, to be honest, the hardest part about any megacampaign. In my Byzantine one, there was nothing to do in Victoria, really. I had to wait the game out so that I'd have something to do in HoI.

I think I'll see something similar when this game hits EU3. At least I'm not the only one!

It seems you also had terrain against you. There's a little circle with a green plus below the defenders in the battle screen that tells you that. Were you aware that you were attacking in hilly or mountainous terrain? Or, god forbid, across a river?

Yeah, the terrain bonus for the defender was most likely the biggest culprit ( river crossing + mountains given the pic posted ). It would have been far more productive to go siege the enemy capital while giving a eye to the enemy stack to see signs of weakness. That part is actually quite similar to EUIII warfare ;)

I really need to pay more attention to terrain in this game, as you've both pointed out. In Vicky 2, EU3, or HOI3, I would have caught it, but for some reason I ignored it here.

You have no idea how happy this update made me ;)

During the time I've been in AARland, I've always thought that AARs about a country in despair were much more fun than a "lookz I concuer de world wit the HRE!" AAR. As our great house moderator Mr. Capiatlist noted, this is especially true for megacampaigns, where the real trick is not conquering too much.

I'm glad my horrible failure made your day. :) Don't worry, there are more failures to come!

As a plea for advice, how important is army composition (or how the army is arranged?) Any tips there? The manual helps some, and I know roughly what is good for what, but I'm eager to learn more if there's something I missed.