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stnylan

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I think what makes Eadwin so dangerous here is that he admits his error.

A man of great talents can be a formidable ally or a fearsome foe. A man of great talents who is yet able to learn from his mistakes ... if I were William I would be more than a little fearful. Of course, William is also a man of great talens, and great confidence, and than can both by turns enlighten and blind.
 

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Hmmm, a sick Eadwin. Foul play I wonder?
 

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Phew I've just caught up and am quite breathless for it. Where fo start? First with the scheming William who seems to have quite brilliantly outmanoeuvred Eadwin and co whilst also corralling the king into signing over the regency to him. I say 'seems', however because in playing his hand the wily Norman seems to have overplayed it for in one fell sweep he appears to have united the fractious Saxon magnates against him.

That said the Atheling remains firmly in the bracket of always the bridesmaid never the bride and I wonder if he has the stomach to remove William and the boy king...

Superbly written, plotted and expositioned coz1-just brilliant.
 

Specialist290

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One thought stands out in my mind: However Eadgar and company decide to go about finally reclaiming his throne and ousting the Norman Duke from the right hand of the throne, I think it would be in their best interests to act quickly. The votes of the electors have proven fickle in the past, and nothing allows confidence to wane quite like undue delay. It's also possible that William is expecting to keep the nobility divided long enough to allow himself and Morcar's son to become entrenched, so a bold countermove might actually throw him off his tempo.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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Plus if you strike hard and fast you might live to try again. Time is on the king's side here, not the atheling. If he survives to majority and beds a wife and gets an heir (would take about ten years for all that at best but still) it's pretty much game over.

In fact, less time than that. Everyone hate s William, not the kid. If the bastard is removed without the king suffering in any way (and he kept neutral or even helped out) then the earl and duke might find themselves as favoured members of court again true but not in a position to take the throne. Once William is gone I doubt eadwin will depose his own dynasty just because the earl ask some him to.

On a further note, did the king inherit the duchy of York? In which case, the earl has him a son a direct liege lord as well. Better play carefully with that.
 

Director

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Plus if you strike hard and fast you might live to try again.

That's very perceptive and I agree. It is important to strike before the Williamite Regency becomes the status quo.

However, let's not lose sight of the game - coz1 can make decisions only from the events the game gives him - sort of like steering a railroad locomotive in that you can switch from track to track only at certain points, and the rest of the time you're just carried along.
 

coz1

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Fb-fb:

Is that fluff or is the boy going to be a stat wizard with the martial trait?


He might well be poisoned or get poisoned sooner or later. I imagine his influence is still too great for William to tolerate.


Alas if only signed documents in that era were always so adhered to...I bet the nobility don't like it.


A much older dealer. Who is going to die soon-ish, thus I wonder what his plan is at this point. Presumably to reward...I think it was Robert, the one whom kept fighting in Normandy even after his father was imprisoned.


Yup, the Duke and William are going to duke it out because they are the only two of their dynasty in positions of real power and have suffered at the hands of the other. So they are deffo not going to play nice with each other.


Hence too much influence. Being either removed or discredited has to be one of the top priorities of William at this point (he has others but this one can actually be easily done).


Including the current king I see! Now that is interesting. If the child were to die naturally of sickness (William having been removed beforehand) then this could actually be a pretty smooth succession. As it stands however there might be an even bigger war coming than I realised.
I'll try to address these points as best I can:
1. The line with Utræd could be considered fluff, I suppose. I certainly wasn't going for a foreshadowing moment there.
2. You are certainly correct on your second point. As for the first, I was hoping to show his condition upon finding out about the death of his brother. He may not have liked him, but he loved him in a way.
3. As can be seen, they certainly do not like it. And true, the document may still be questioned or ignored. It simply serves as a signal for William to prove his legitimacy.
4. Much as I stated in the scene, William wanted as much power as he could regain (and yes, hopefully so too for his own family.) If he couldn't take back the throne itself, he could at least control it. And he likely thinks he is not as much of a target. He may be wrong about that.
5. No, William and Eadwin will not be fast friends going forward.
6. William will soon have more priorities that he was not expecting, though he should have.
7. Indeed, even young King Eadward supports Eadgar at this point. The only that does not is William. That somewhat explains how the young King was elected himself as it was Morcar's vote that swayed it at the end, at least in game terms. Eadward had 3 going into it while Eadgar had only 2. One could assume in story terms, William might have been that third vote to gain power, but in game, he likely supported himself.


I think what makes Eadwin so dangerous here is that he admits his error.

A man of great talents can be a formidable ally or a fearsome foe. A man of great talents who is yet able to learn from his mistakes ... if I were William I would be more than a little fearful. Of course, William is also a man of great talens, and great confidence, and than can both by turns enlighten and blind.
Indeed, William thinks he has carried out a major coup. He may soon be disabused of this notion (with Eadwin's help, of course.)

Hmmm, a sick Eadwin. Foul play I wonder?
I see now that the line about Eadwin's appearance might suggest that. As I said above, I really wanted to show more how his mental state had effected his body after finding out the news of his brother's death (and so too the new worry of William as Regent.)

So - Eadwin is finally focused and in it to win it. That is a welcome development.
I hope so. When I stated 1085 was a big year, 1086 turns out to be even bigger.

Phew I've just caught up and am quite breathless for it. Where fo start? First with the scheming William who seems to have quite brilliantly outmanoeuvred Eadwin and co whilst also corralling the king into signing over the regency to him. I say 'seems', however because in playing his hand the wily Norman seems to have overplayed it for in one fell sweep he appears to have united the fractious Saxon magnates against him.

That said the Atheling remains firmly in the bracket of always the bridesmaid never the bride and I wonder if he has the stomach to remove William and the boy king...

Superbly written, plotted and expositioned coz1-just brilliant.
Thank you! Glad you caught up and reading a few updates in a row sticks together as a story. I've tried to plot carefully so it makes sense even with some odd happenings in game and some months in gametime in between certain posts. Your concern on William is spot on and so is the one on Eadgar. That last turns out to be a very big question indeed.

One thought stands out in my mind: However Eadgar and company decide to go about finally reclaiming his throne and ousting the Norman Duke from the right hand of the throne, I think it would be in their best interests to act quickly. The votes of the electors have proven fickle in the past, and nothing allows confidence to wane quite like undue delay. It's also possible that William is expecting to keep the nobility divided long enough to allow himself and Morcar's son to become entrenched, so a bold countermove might actually throw him off his tempo.
No doubt about that! I must say I was thinking that exact point while playing through this time in game. It made for some tough decisions that I hope pay off in the story.

Plus if you strike hard and fast you might live to try again. Time is on the king's side here, not the atheling. If he survives to majority and beds a wife and gets an heir (would take about ten years for all that at best but still) it's pretty much game over.

In fact, less time than that. Everyone hate s William, not the kid. If the bastard is removed without the king suffering in any way (and he kept neutral or even helped out) then the earl and duke might find themselves as favoured members of court again true but not in a position to take the throne. Once William is gone I doubt eadwin will depose his own dynasty just because the earl ask some him to.

On a further note, did the king inherit the duchy of York? In which case, the earl has him a son a direct liege lord as well. Better play carefully with that.
On your question, the King did in fact inherit the Duchies of York and Northumberland as well as the Kingdom which seems odd. The Duchy should have likely passed to Morcar's eldest son since it is not elective at that level. Kind of weird and I admit I did not notice that at the time. You will see why soon enough.

Your other points are well made and I must agree. Time is of the essence.

That's very perceptive and I agree. It is important to strike before the Williamite Regency becomes the status quo.

However, let's not lose sight of the game - coz1 can make decisions only from the events the game gives him - sort of like steering a railroad locomotive in that you can switch from track to track only at certain points, and the rest of the time you're just carried along.
Also very true. After this occurred in-game, I had to make some difficult decisions as I mentioned above. I cannot say yet if they worked or not, but I can say things speed up even more than they were in the previous year. Take from that what you will.


To all - I will have another update up tomorrow as I am about three ahead of where I am posting at the moment. I may have to slow down a bit over the weekend as I am working some long hours, but I will try to get it out there. As I have said, there are some exciting things ahead - some good and some fairly bad. You will know what I mean when I get there. ;)

Thank you to everyone for your great comments, and for some excellent discussion. It means I am doing something right with these characters and the story itself to have such a intelligent back and forth over motives and the character of these people. :D
 

TheButterflyComposer

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I may have to slow down a bit over the weekend as I am working some long hours, but I will try to get it out there.

It's just me removing the competition now I can actually write up stuff again:D

Hm...inherited all Morcar's titles? He must have changed everything over to that system...but then again if he voted personally for that kid then that might give him the land by default? Idk...I've not played the game long enough to judge that. I tend to destroy that kind of elective process as soon as I can to avoid stuff like this entire AAR happening (oh wait...no offence:)).
In that case, and since he can hold two ducal titles and presumably a most of that land...this king is going to be a powerful one so long as his stats don't cock up. Who's educating him? William going to sabotage that too? Or is Eadgar going to be his teacher!!! What a twist.
 

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Eadwin, it's time to show some strength, and revenge your brother. It's obvious he loved him.
This year 1086 promises to be a chaotic year for England.

And there was a thing Morcar had kept away when he stabilized the realm, it's the external threats. Now, if the kingdom is undermined by schemes, plots, or even worse, a civil war, I'm sure some neighboring countries will not miss any opportunity.
 
Last edited:

TheButterflyComposer

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Eadwin, it's time to show some strength, and revenge your brother. It's obvious he loved him.
This year 1086 promises to be a chaotic year for England.

And there was a thing Morcar had keep away when he stabilized the realm, it's the external threats. Now, if the kingdom is undermined by schemes, plots, or even worse, a civil war, I'm sure some neighboring countries will not miss any opportunity.

Hence why I'm interested in who got Northumberland. The KING did, so Scotland has a fight on their hands if they try tot take it.
Otherwise I agree. Also, what a lot of spineless kingdoms and lords there are in this version of the Isles in that not ONE of them tried to do anything whilst their biggest threat and rival was down and out for the count. Seriously, Scotland and Wales didn't try anything? Ireland okay but if someone had managed to unite that whilst England was busy then there would be a good threat to them.

But no no...talking is apparently a free action for the English.
 

coz1

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It's just me removing the competition now I can actually write up stuff again:D

Hm...inherited all Morcar's titles? He must have changed everything over to that system...but then again if he voted personally for that kid then that might give him the land by default? Idk...I've not played the game long enough to judge that. I tend to destroy that kind of elective process as soon as I can to avoid stuff like this entire AAR happening (oh wait...no offence:)).
In that case, and since he can hold two ducal titles and presumably a most of that land...this king is going to be a powerful one so long as his stats don't cock up. Who's educating him? William going to sabotage that too? Or is Eadgar going to be his teacher!!! What a twist.
I admit I am unsure how that inheritance happens. As I said, I would have thought a proper state would have the King be elected while the eldest son of Morcar would get his duchies. Perhaps it has to do with actually having a landed property. Morcar did not change any elective laws, I can assure. As for your first point, I do not consider it competition. I wish I could get out and comment more to those others writing in this area and in the other games. When I am reading many in my area, I tend to make it a point to comment on mine first and then others so theirs are closer to the top of the page.

Eadwin, it's time to show some strength, and revenge your brother. It's obvious he loved him.
This year 1086 promises to be a chaotic year for England.

And there was a thing Morcar had kept away when he stabilized the realm, it's the external threats. Now, if the kingdom is undermined by schemes, plots, or even worse, a civil war, I'm sure some neighboring countries will not miss any opportunity.
I am so glad you saw that from Eadwin. I did not want to make a point of it, but rather a sign of that truth.

Your second point is also entirely spot on...look below...

Hence why I'm interested in who got Northumberland. The KING did, so Scotland has a fight on their hands if they try tot take it.
Otherwise I agree. Also, what a lot of spineless kingdoms and lords there are in this version of the Isles in that not ONE of them tried to do anything whilst their biggest threat and rival was down and out for the count. Seriously, Scotland and Wales didn't try anything? Ireland okay but if someone had managed to unite that whilst England was busy then there would be a good threat to them.

But no no...talking is apparently a free action for the English.
There is no doubt that should be a consideration. But look at France. I have not said much about it, but Scotland is not in much better shape off and on during this period. Wales has Eadwin on most of its border (and Scotland with Morcar, for that matter.) And those in Norway have now died off that had a claim to put out there. The threat for many years has been from within. As Number 9 has suggested, to the rest of the world, England was not down and out for the count. Morcar has been fighting, actively, a war in Hungary during this entire time. He bested William to take the throne. He secured the Kingdom even if it may not appear that way from these plots I have included. Morcar has been the best King since at least when I began this AAR. ;)
 
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The threat for many years has been from within.

And even there, the threats were not that dangerous. There were some plots yes, but nobody took action. At least, until Morcar has been very sick.
I know I'm a little biased toward Morcar. :D

The great failure of Morcar is maybe the relationship with his brother (the way I see this of course, I may have missed something). If he didn't deny his affection for him (and the opposite is as true), his succession would have been secured. But there was this sort of rivalry between them, that can provoke their loss (Eadwin can still save this, but I'm not sure he understands it, and I think he will run for Eadgar and not Morcar's son now).
 

TheButterflyComposer

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do not consider it competition. I wish I could get out and comment more to those others writing in this area and in the other games. When I am reading many in my area, I tend to make it a point to comment on mine first and then others so theirs are closer to the top of the page.

I doubt there is any at all to be honest, since people are inspired to join up based off of AAR from others, then write their own and continue to contribute to others as well. Especially if there are similar projects going on at the same time (3 Albion based ones started at the same time as I recall, even if we all have gone off in wildly different directions).
So yeah, lurkers out there, write! It is surprisingly fun and probably something you are already doing in your head while playing anyway.

England was not down and out for the count. Morcar has been fighting, actively, a war in Hungary during this entire time. He bested William to take the throne.

I forgot about that...I suppose it isn't really relevant but what does the rest of the world look like? I have found that civil wars tend to be like plagues, everyone has them at the same time.
I wonder then, if people think England is united despite what we know, what happens if anyone tries to test that or if England suddenly needs to, say, defend Normandy from someone and fail to due to factions. Then people would begin to wonder...

So, England is still the power in the British Isles. France is very weak and divided up. Germany is strong-ish (as far as we know) and Scandinavia and Iberia are more of a mystery. Any of those last three could take advantage of the former two if played properly. Hell, even England can take advantage of France if they pull themselves together, and they probably will try at some point. So it is a race to see who is first at moving into France (if everyone takes too long it might form up on its own but that wont be for a few decades yet at least.). Of course England has another option in taking down the puny kingdoms in Albion if they want but lets be honest, they're going to do that anyway. France should be the priority.
 

coz1

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And even there, the threats were not that dangerous. There were some plots yes, but nobody took action. At least, until Morcar has been very sick.
I know I'm a little biased toward Morcar. :D

The great failure of Morcar is maybe the relationship with his brother (the way I see this of course, I may have missed something). If he didn't deny his affection for him (and the opposite is as true), his succession would have been secured. But there was this sort of rivalry between them, that can provoke their loss (Eadwin can still save this, but I'm not sure he understands it, and I think he will run for Eadgar and not Morcar's son now).
Once more, well stated. I cannot go into detail as that would give away some plot points, but there is no doubt that Morcar made a mistake in the manner that he treated his brother. It may not have saved his life in the end, but things might have turned out very differently.

I doubt there is any at all to be honest, since people are inspired to join up based off of AAR from others, then write their own and continue to contribute to others as well. Especially if there are similar projects going on at the same time (3 Albion based ones started at the same time as I recall, even if we all have gone off in wildly different directions).
So yeah, lurkers out there, write! It is surprisingly fun and probably something you are already doing in your head while playing anyway.



I forgot about that...I suppose it isn't really relevant but what does the rest of the world look like? I have found that civil wars tend to be like plagues, everyone has them at the same time.
I wonder then, if people think England is united despite what we know, what happens if anyone tries to test that or if England suddenly needs to, say, defend Normandy from someone and fail to due to factions. Then people would begin to wonder...

So, England is still the power in the British Isles. France is very weak and divided up. Germany is strong-ish (as far as we know) and Scandinavia and Iberia are more of a mystery. Any of those last three could take advantage of the former two if played properly. Hell, even England can take advantage of France if they pull themselves together, and they probably will try at some point. So it is a race to see who is first at moving into France (if everyone takes too long it might form up on its own but that wont be for a few decades yet at least.). Of course England has another option in taking down the puny kingdoms in Albion if they want but lets be honest, they're going to do that anyway. France should be the priority.
I'm not sure I have a full world screenie any time soon. For that, I apologize. I was so focused on this plot, that I did not even bother to check much in the game itself. As I said, this last year and the next were quite engaging. There will be some "world building" screens coming soon, but I doubt it would give over the big picture.

You are likely not wrong in that a weak France should be dealt with (and William is currently doing his best at that in the Vexin) but I cannot say that was the focus. I won't say it wasn't either right this minute. ;)


To all - the next update follows. It is a bit lengthy but I felt it necessary given the subject matter. I told you the next year was exciting, so let the year 1086 begin...
 

coz1

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The Rightful King


York, England - January 1086


The cortege for King Morcar’s body moved slowly through York Minster toward his final internment as many onlookers watched on, some with tears and many others with simple curiosity. As it passed by the great Lords of the realm, they all held their heads low showing great deference. It finally moved past the now Dowager Queen Adelhaid and her son, the new King Eadward III. The boy simply watched it go by while his mother collapsed in tears.

Duke William of Normandy was there to catch her fall and took her and the King to a private chapel for further prayer leaving the other mourners to proceed from the church. Much pomp and circumstance had been given the day until this point, but leaving the church was left as a free for all with little ceremony to it. And there were many words said about this fact and others as these Lords began to talk.

Duke Skuli showed a great distaste and left almost immediately and he was quickly followed by Duke Eadmund, though not without an attempt from the Lord to take his young step-son with him. For his part, Duke Æthelmær wished to stay and told the man such. Following such lead, Duke Cearl decided to do the same. Duke Eadwin had followed the grieving party, and now returned to say that there would be no audience. And so the young Dukes were left to choose, and they chose to exit as well. Without a meeting with the new King, there was little left for them to do.

However, one man stayed. He was not given great deference during the ceremony but every single one of the great Lords had made point to speak to him at one chance or other. Now, Eadgar of Wessex sat on a back bench and waited. His few words with Duke Eadwin lasted no time and he was content to contemplate the great building around him until finally the man he wished walked back down the aisle.

“My Lord William,” he announced as the Duke of Normandy looked up in some shock.

The Duke stopped quickly and gave over pleasing countenance, “Lord Eadgar! I did not think to see you or any other here at this time.”

Eadgar offered sorrowful eyes, “My Queen is in pain, my Lord. She has always been good to me.”

William squared his focus to the Earl, “You would do well for her sorrow at this time, my Lord. Always dutiful. I am sure you would do the same for her kin.”

“I would for now and ever,” Eadgar gently smiled. “Her sons are so very close to mine. The King and I were close as well.”

“Once,” William added.

Eadgar stood, “Indeed, we lost a certain faith with one another at a time. It is a great sadness now that he is gone. He was a great man.”

William allowed a squint from his wrinkled brow as he looked over this Earl, “And so you would pay him such great respect…you are the last one here.”

“No, my Lord,” Eadgar offered a smile. “I give you the respect you deserve. That you cared for our liege as he was ailing and now do him the honor of raising up his son? For a man I loved so much, this is a thing of beauty and wonder.”

“Is it?” William asked with an arched brow.

“It is very much so, my Lord. You do him a great service.”

The Duke offered his own smile as he began to move from the church, “You had your chance, my Lord. Your actions were different than mine.”

“Were they?” Eadgar stopped him immediately.

Duke William turned with a great calm. He stood and adjusted his fine cloak with a smile as he looked upon Eadgar. Finally a grin came over his face as he responded, “My Lord, you had great chance with the man for many a year. He found you lacking. Enough at the least to take your chance and make it his own. This is neither the time nor place to announce your grievances. I can do little for you but perhaps save your life.”

“That is interesting to me,” Eadgar responded quickly. “I may be able to do the same for you.”

“And how would you do that?” William laughed.

Eadgar took the moment to begin walking down the aisle and out of the church as he said, “It is good that we were met, my Lord.”

Several beats passed before the Duke finally called out, “What do you want?!”

The Earl stopped and slowly turned, “Safety for myself and family…that would seem a goal most devoutly wished.”

“You have that whether I wish it or no,” William answered.

Eadgar smiled, “And you may wish such safety as well, my Lord.”

William allowed his own smile, “You have found a strength that should have been produced many years ago. Had you done so, today might have been one of your raising.”

“For a wise and aged man, my Lord Duke…you miss my point. I care not for your war in France. In truth, I care not for what tales you have told to this young one now on our throne. I love him much, but he is not me. And you will never be him.”

“Then what shall I be?” William allowed with a laugh.

Eadgar smiled, “You will never last as Regent. I may say that. No one will trust you. There is not a Lord in this realm that believes your words on the matter of King Morcar’s death. And allow me to be clear…I think you had little to do in the actual offing. You only made it work for your claim. Dear Lord William…I will stand here and tell you that I care not for your claim…mine is better.”

“These are many words that matter not…” William began to say.

“No, my Lord. These words are repeated throughout the kingdom. There is not a man that wishes you here. If you wish it still, you must fight for it.”

William looked at Eadgar with sharp eyes, “I believe I have done so…my Lord.”

“You have tried…and failed. You now have some chance to succeed.” Eadgar offered a grin, “The crown may not be in your taking but some other may be something you wish. I believe I know what that is.”

The Duke stood tall, “I have many wishes, my Lord. The crown may be one of them.”

Eadgar simply smiled, “And I am telling you that you will never have it. I have the ear of our Lords. They wish it not. Not now. Not ever. We fought a long engaging war to prove that to you…”

“That I won!” William quickly answered.

“And then you lost,” Eadgar answered just as quickly.

William took a slight step back and grinned, “You are but a lowly Earl…who are you to speak to me in such manner? What is it that I may gain from you?”

“As I stated, my Lord,” Eadgar returned the grin, “You may wish some safety.”

“You could grant any such thing?” William asked with haughty spite.

Eadgar smiled, “I could help you to maneuver. You walk a very tight rope, my Lord. I doubt that you wish a great fall.”

“You think you have learned so very much from those brothers of Hwicce? I promise, they taught you nothing.”

“Oh no, my Lord…they taught me much,” Eadgar answered with a smile.

William offered a laugh, “Then they taught you how to be a fool.”

Eadgar kept his smile, “It is an old and foolish man that does not see wisdom when it is there before him. I am not here to challenge you, Lord William. I am here to help you if you would help me.”

“I am unsure that either of us could help each other,” William stated with some anger.

The Earl shrugged for a moment, “I could tell you what I have already said. I assumed that may be of some help. I could also tell you that the man chosen as the King’s new confessor is a most untrustworthy priest. Bishop Leofric is in the employ of that Prince-Bishop Æthelwine.”

“The King loves me much. Why should I worry?” William asked with irritation.

“The Prince-Bishop is old and foolish himself, but a day does not go by that he does not scheme. I have known the man for many a year.”

“It seems you scheme yourself,” William offered. “Not only must I have this conversation with you now, but I understand your Chancellor is at this moment in Rouen attempting to ply his trade. I know you as a wily commander on the field, my Lord. I do not think it translates so well when it comes to this matter.”

Eadgar shifted to lean his backside against the wall as he crossed his arms, “You may be right and true, my Lord. But I recall a time when I heard a confession of sorts…a man not willing to put himself in harm’s way even if he knew of a terrible plot to kill his anointed King? Dishonorable things could be said about it. And as I shall soon go to the sad Queen to give her some solace, I would hate to mention such things to her. She loves me much. I do not wish to sully her day any further.”

The Duke stood there in anger but composed himself, “The last straw…is that what you threaten?”

“I threaten no thing, my Lord William…I am offering you a chance.”

William threw his arms to his side in question, “Backed by what?”

“I thought you to be more reasonable,” the Earl stood tall again and shook his head.

“You have not yet said fully what you wish!” William answered with exasperation.

Eadgar smiled, “My wish is not so different than yours, my Lord. But I have better chance at it than you. If you would but help me, I could do the very same. We were given an introduction, and for that I am thankful. I was greatly distrustful of you at the time, but now I see that you are a man of means…and meaning. I would ask of you one thing…assist me in gaining this crown.”

“You jest?!” William replied with a laugh.

“I do not. I am too old to do so, though not as old as you. And I will remind you that your age is not what will keep you from this throne. It is the many men in this realm that do…NOT…wish it.”

William of Normandy gave out a great sigh and stepped forward, “If you think you have these men in your pocket, my Lord…you do not. But your point is now well made. If your point is clear…if…then I would ask something for myself.”

“I would think a man of your caliber a lesser man without such,” Eadgar responded.

“Normandy will be mine.” the Duke answered fiercely.

Eadgar smiled, “However you wish it, my Lord. See to the thing.”

William stood back and looked at the Earl for a moment before answering, “I may have misjudged you, young Atheling. Perhaps your prowess is easily moved from the battlefield. I admit that I did not think you capable of such.”

“I would not question your judgement, my Lord,” Eadgar quickly responded. “Whether or not you think those brothers of Hwicce excellent teachers, I cannot deny that I learned many a good lesson.”

 
Last edited:

Nikolai

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Oh, wow.

That is all I have to say on the matter right now.:eek:
 

stnylan

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It is almost as if Eadger has grown up. With Morcar's passing it is like a mighty tree has fallen, and Eadger - a somewhat stunted trunk - is now reaching for the skies.

I notice Eadger says he learned lessons, and he lets William's assertion that his teachers were Morcar and Eadwin unchallenged, but that is not what he said.
 

Director

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I would sorrow for the young boy, but - to be frank - he is going to die one way or another. Either William kills him to be king, or kills him at the first sign of independence, or Eadgar kills him to clear his own path. This is karma indeed, if only Morcar could know it - Shakespearean in that Morcar's pushing Eadgar aside will now cost the life of his son.

For William to consent so readily to giving up the regency and control of the kingdom, he must know very well what Eadgar is talking about and must believe his days as regent are numbered. Settling for Normandy - which he had before he set out for England decades before - will be a bitter pill, a lifetime wasted in pursuit of a kingdom only to see it handed repeatedly to lesser men. And killing the boy - whose life and health has been the foundation of his control of the kingdom - is the act of a desperate man.

I don't think Eadgar and William will trust each other for a moment. Eadgar has only to let William do the deed and flee to Normandy, then join everyone else in accusing him of regicide. If Eadgar does not it will be because he doesn't want a war in Normandy - better to write that off as the price of getting rid of William. And WIlliam will die soon enough, and Normandy can possibly be reclaimed then.

I think Eadgar would still not kill the boy himself, and must know the chances of William doing it anyway are near to certain. Still, it saddens me to see him suggest it. Notice that neither man proposed the safest and easiest path - handing the regency over to Eadgar. I suppose that would work for William, but not satisfy Eadgar. His hunger grows... unseemly.

My high school band director once said that, in a given situation, if nothing else you can always learn what NOT to do. ;)
 

The Number 9

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May 3, 2014
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So now, Eadgar wants to murder a child... He did not listen a word Beorhtmaer said months ago.
He was a nice kid, so promising and probably the most capable of all pretender. Now he is about to make horrible things to gain this crown.

The boy has changed, but I can't say it's for the best. He is completely obsessed by accessing to the throne now.