The research tree needs to be rebalanced

[CareTaker Unit #3734]

Currently I find that whenever I play a game of Stellaris I end up behind on the engineering tree, even when running the civic that provides artificers .This is mainly due to the fact that they're just so much more technologies in the engineering tree.

Consider weapons. A lot of the energy weapons are in the physics tree, but basically every other weapon then falls into the engineering tree.

While gene moding being done in the society tree does provide a little bit of balance, the fact that robot moding is done in the engineering tree counters that.

Then of course we get down to the repeatable's where there are about twice as many engineering repeatable's as physics.

I could be good to add a couple sources of engineering research. Maybe allow roboticist to generate a bit of engineering research while they're assembling robots and add a building that only generates engineering research.

 

[Zoroastra]

I insist, I think that a more classical system of research and technology would help everyone to focus more on the technologies that they consider to be priority without having to affect the balance on the planets.

Everyone is free to have their own opinions, just as I still feel the ability to channel your research into the direction you want it to go improves matters *shrugs*

What could be done alternatively is adding a policy decision like militarised / civilian economy, but then for the various research fields so you can gain a bonus in one at a penalty to the other two. Less risky for balance issues and doesn't require any new buildings.

 

[HFY]

What could be done alternatively is adding a policy decision like militarised / civilian economy, but then for the various research fields so you can gain a bonus in one at a penalty to the other two. Less risky for balance issues and doesn't require any new buildings.

That's an empire-wide decision.

When I imagine a specific research subcategory building (like Physics), I'm picturing using it on a planet with a +% physics bonus, or with a +% physics species (probably not my main species).

E.g. if I find a Titanic Life modifier on an Ocean world, and I find some aquatic Natural Sociologists mollusc-people, I want to build them an Ocean research planet, with jobs that have as many base society points as possible.

Or if I find a Tundra world with +% physics, and I find some Natural Physicists birb-people with Tundra preference, I want to build them a Tundra research planet, with jobs that have as many base physics points as possible.


Directing my whole empire is also a reasonable decision, and it sounds like a worthwhile addition, but to me it's separate from optimizing jobs for a perfect combo of +% planet and +% species.

 

[Zoroastra]

Yeah, I proposed the latter simply as an alternative to different buildings and to avoid potential balancing issues.

If you want to have something similar but per planet instead of empire-wide, a planetary decision would be the way to go, tho that is not all that different from just building different labs on that planet in the first place. *shrugs*

I feel like the empire-wide one would have more clout to it - if the government tells everyone the future is in engineering, then more people are bound to study engineering compared to the other sciences.

Doing so planet by planet seems... less likely? Ofc, for authoritarians they could just order people to do what they want them to. An egalitarian empire on the other hand would have no way to force their citizens to prefer one science over the other since they'd complain about silly things like liberty and needing the freedom to starve and all that (Serial Authoritarian Player xD)

Too much min/maxing becomes unrealistic - there is a limit to the micro-management an empire is capable of after all. And that limit is much easier to hit when it comes to intruding on people's behaviour and life choices than if you are, for example, modifying their genes and mutating their bodies as you please. Nobody minds the latter - why would they?

 

[Toybasher]

I have never understood why Stellaris uses a random system to select techs instead of the common tech tree like in other Paradox games (HOI4).

I assume it was for balance reasons, to prevent extreme min-maxing to blitz to certain techs early and cheese. (I.E. Players rushing destroyers, cruisers, battleships as their first 3 engineering techs to steamroll their neighbor early on.)

It also has "roleplay/story" implications. Maybe the randomization could represent how not all empires discover the same technology at the same time. (There's already some ethic weighting for how likely certain techs are to appear. Militarists have a higher chance to get weapons tech, spiritualists have a lower chance to get robotics, etc.)

I actually like the current tech system, but I do wish there was a way to view the tech "tree" ingame so you had a general idea of what techs are eligible to appear, which techs are gated behind other techs, etc.

 

[Zoroastra]

Personally, I would start people off with only repeatable techs that slightly improve their related fields and as you complete such techs, add a chance of making a "breakthrough" which adds a related new technology to your list of available techs. This would also make it much more valuable to get new techs trough discovery, archaeology or reverse engineering from enemy wrecks (or artefacts?)

Then the player can choose to focus on materials research for example, or military theory - those give small bonuses when completed and may unlock "breakthrough" techs of the same 'type'. It also makes it more palatable to manage your scientists' specialties since you can decide what field to push in instead of having to change your scientist every time you complete a tech...

and it doesn't allow to just push for rush techs, but it does allow you to at least focus in the direction you want to be going..

 

[Der4ndere]

Really like that Idea!
Maybe add to it, that you still get small amounts of progress for the other repeatable techs, to show, how your empire can do more than just one reasearchproject at a time....

->>

A series of "repeatables" / general knowledge / theories(?) are the main axis of the new researchtree. At the end of that series, you have a repeatable, that no longer unlocks new technologies, but still gives the same "minimalbonus".
With every research done, you have a chance to gain an event, that adds a guaranteed researchoption to your selection (as said above, which researchoption you can get depends on how advanced your general knowledge for the relatet fields are. Simpler techs could get their weight for this selection increased, the more higher your general knowledge is (the more repeatables you already have researched).
Researching one of these guaranateed researchoptions may increase the chance, that in the future you might draw a tech from the same branch , maybe with some progress from the start (if you can build a battleship, it should be easier to develope a cruiser and likewise, the chance for your scientists to think about battleships is higher, if they already developed cruisers).
This does also mean, that you have a chance to ignore "lower" techs and still get the high-end-stuff researched (if that is what you wish, but you might take almost as long as an empire, that did research the "lower" techs -> rushing for certain techs might be a little bit faster (depends on luck), but leaves you vulnearable for a longer period, since you have nothing until you did that research).

There could also be a chance for all techs, to add a little progress towards (all) other (relatet?) techs.