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Methone

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Currently there is a Fallen Empire for half of the game's ethics: Xenophobe-Xenophile, Spiritualist-Materialist, and Machine Intelligence for half of the Gestalts.

Martin Anward at one point said he'd have liked to make FE for the rest of the ethics. These are my ideas of what those FE would look like:
Rigid Despots - This Fallen Empire dedicates itself to maintaining their rigid slave society. Liberating their servant population is likely to draw their ire.
The FE's worlds use a second slave species working as Servants for Amenities, like the Xenophobes. Unlike the Xenophobes, these slaves are not nervestapled and are pretty miserable.

Homeworld is a size 25 Gaia. One system over they also have a size 20 Gaia Thrall World. The Thrall World is mostly just their slaves, with two special Slave Driver precursor pops that provide immense Stability.
The Fallen Empire's fleets have a balanced mix of Energy and Kinetic weapons. For their X-Slot weapons, they use Giga Cannons.
  • 1 Titan Lance
  • 4 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 4 Large Gauss Cannons
  • 4 Large Plasma Cannons
  • 4 Medium Phase Disruptors
  • 1 Giga Cannon
  • 2 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 2 Large Gauss Cannons
  • 4 Medium Gamma Lasers
  • 1 Neutron Launcher
  • 4 Stormfire Autocannons
  • 4 Guardian Point Defense
The Fallen Empire uses Slave Armies of their slave population. If they somehow cannot, they instead use Xenomorph Armies.
Their Discipline-class Colossus uses a Neutron Sweep weapon.
While Sleeping, the FE is generally calm and does little.
  • GIFTS - They will never give you Gifts, even if they like you.
  • BORDER ACCESS - They will never open their borders, even if they like you.
  • Not the FE itself, but non-Slaver non-Genocidal empires have a chance to be contacted instead by the FE's slaves. A runaway caravan of the FE slaves pleads with you for shelter, having escaped their masters. If you accept, you get 4 incredibly-well gene modded Workers on your homeworld.
  • TASKS - They have no Tasks for anybody.
  • Taking in their runaway Slaves - or indeed, having those pops on your worlds by any means - gives a -200 Opinion for "Servant Thieves". They will demand you return every single one of their pops to their empire. If you refuse, they will declare War to do the same.
Unifying Absolutists - This Awakened Empire seeks to establish a firm hierarchy throughout the galaxy. They are likely to attack any empire that does not take their place in its chain of command.

  • UPSTARTS - They can awaken from Upstarts.
  • WAR IN HEAVEN - They can trigger a second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • ANCIENT RIVALS - They can be the second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - They can be the Guardians of the Galaxy during a Crisis.
Fief - Fiefs must pay 25% of their minerals and energy to their overlord, but are otherwise allowed to go about their business. If they had any subjects of their own before, they keep them and, in fact, are allowed to declare Subjugation Wars on other independent empires.
While Fallen they can be called the:
  • Despots
  • Capitol
  • Core
When Awoken, they can be called the:
  • Administrators
  • Supervisors
  • Overseers
Vapid Hedonists- This Fallen Empire dedicates itself to maintaining a high quality of life for its citizens. Keeping citizen species in low standards of living is likely to draw their ire.

This FE is a Democracy rather than Imperial, and is ruled by a President.
Homeworld is a size 25 Gaia. One system over is a Black Hole system with a size 20 Gaia world orbiting it. The Gaia world is a Resort World filled with buildings that give massive empire-wide Amenities, as this FE has no slaves of any kind.
The Fallen Empire's fleets have mostly piercing weapons. For their X-Slot weapons, they use Focused Arc Emitters.
  • 1 Titan Lance
  • 4 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 8 Cloud Lightning
  • 4 Medium Phase Disruptors
  • 1 Focused Arc Emitter
  • 2 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 2 Cloud Lightning
  • 4 Medium Phase Disruptors
  • 1 Cloud Lightning
  • 4 Small Phase Disruptors
  • 4 Guardian Point Defense
The Fallen Empire uses Gene Warriors.
Their Utopia-class Colossus uses a Neutron Sweep weapon.
While Sleeping, the FE is slightly active.

  • GIFTS - If they like you, they can give gifts.
  • BORDER ACCESS - If they like you, they can open their borders.
  • They may request a Level 5+ Governor for their worlds.
  • They may task an Empire with Decent Living Standards or better to declare war on their Rivals who have worse than Decent Living Standards, with a special CB to raise living standards for all their species.
  • They will only demand your Humiliation if you anger them.
Consumerist Liberators - This Awakened Empire seeks to enforce their high standards of living on other empires. They are likely to attack anyone that does not authorize excessive consumer goods consumption.

  • UPSTARTS - They can awaken from Upstarts.
  • WAR IN HEAVEN - They can trigger a second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • ANCIENT RIVALS - They can be the second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - They CANNOT be the Guardians of the Galaxy during a Crisis.
Client- Clients cannot declare war except for Independence, but will be protected by the AE if they should be attacked. If they are not a Gestalt Consciousness, ALL species must have Utopian Abundance. Even if you're not Egalitarian. Even if they are being purged.
While Fallen they can be called the:
  • Hedonists
  • Consumers
  • Syarites
When Awoken, they can be called the:
  • Uplifters
  • Liberators
  • Speakers
Barbaric Enthusiasts- This Fallen Empire devotes itself to observing the struggles of the lesser races. Ending wars in unsatisfying ways may draw their ire.
The FE's worlds use Synthetics without AI, working as Servants, to produce Amenities.

Their home system has two Size 20 Gaia worlds.
The Fallen Empire's fleets use Kinetic Weapons. For their X-Slot weapons, they use Giga Cannons.
  • 1 Titan Lance
  • 4 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 8 Kinetic Artillery
  • 4 Medium Gauss Cannons
  • 1 Giga Cannon
  • 2 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 2 Kinetic Artillery
  • 4 Medium Gauss Cannons
  • 1 Kinetic Artillery
  • 4 Stormfire Autocannons
  • 4 Flak Artillery
The Fallen Empire uses Robotic armies.
Their Nuclear-class Colossus uses a World Cracker weapon.
While Sleeping, the FE is slightly active.

  • GIFTS - If they like you, they can give you gifts.
  • BORDER ACCESS - If they like you, they can open their borders.
  • They may request a Level 5+ Admiral for their worlds.
  • They may task an Empire to declare war, of any kind, to a chosen bordering empire. The selected Empire can be an ally, will never be the FE itself obviously, and will always be at least Superior in power.
  • If you border the FE, and get into war with someone else, and the war ends in a White Peace with no change of territory, the FE will have -200 to you for an Unimpressive War. They will demand Humiliation, and go to war for it if you refuse.
Noble Conquerors - This Awakened Empire seeks to strengthen the galaxy at large. They are likely to attack any empire that will not accept their martial aid.

Once awoken, they have -100 Opinion to any 'Pacifist Cowards'.

  • UPSTARTS - They can awaken from Upstarts.
  • WAR IN HEAVEN - They can trigger a second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • ANCIENT RIVALS - They can be the second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - They can be the Guardians of the Galaxy during a Crisis.
Auxiliary- Auxiliaries gain 20% of the AE's naval capacity for themselves. Auxilliaries CANNOT build new starbases. Auxiliaries can war amongst themselves, but if an outsider declares war on one, the AE will defend them. If the AE gets into a war, every non-rebelling Auxiliary will be expected to help.
While Fallen they can be called the:
  • Crowd
  • Retirees
  • Admirers
When Awoken, they can be called the:
  • Champions
  • Chiefs
  • Captains
Quiet Cabal - This Fallen Empire devotes itself to quiet criminal operations behind their borders. Interfering with their business practices is likely to draw their ire.

This FE is Corporate rather than Imperial, and is ruled by a Don.
The FE's worlds use Synthetics with AI-disabled working as Servants for amenities.

Homeworld is a size 20 Gaia. One system away is another size 20 Gaia filled with buildings that produce immense amounts of Trade Value.

Outside the borders of the FE are 4 unnamed 'Dump Worlds', where the FE had developed illegal narcotics in ages past. Dump Worlds have a flat 50% Habitability for all species.
The Fallen Empire's fleets use Energy Weapons. For their X-Slot weapons, they use Focused Arc Emitters.
  • 1 Titan Lance
  • 4 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 8 Large Plasma Cannons
  • 4 Medium Gamma Lasers
  • 1 Focused Arc Emitter
  • 2 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 2 Neutron Launchers
  • 4 Medium Gamma Lasers
  • 1 Neutron Launcher
  • 4 Small Plasma Cannons
  • 4 Guardian Point Defense
The Fallen Empire uses Xenomorph armies.
Their Omerta-class Colossus uses a Global Pacifier weapon.
While Sleeping, the FE is generally calm and does little.

  • GIFTS - They will never give you Gifts, even if they like you.
  • BORDER ACCESS - They will never open their borders, even if they like you.
  • REQUESTS - They will never Request anything.
  • TASKS - They have no Tasks for anybody.
  • They will only demand Humiliation, but will not declare War if you refuse. Instead, the FE will begin opening Branch Offices on your worlds, and each time they do, they give a special Event letting you accept Humiliation in exchange for them no longer opening Branches and closing the existing ones.
Being Fanatic Pacifist, this FE cannot declare Wars of Aggression. Anyone on their bad side - both while Fallen and while Awoken - gets Branch Offices forcefully opened on their worlds, at massive discount for the FE. They will forcibly displace existing Branch Offices from other empires to do this, and can even open Branches if you're an empire that normally can't host Branches at all. Furthermore, they can build Branches for empires they are Warring, but not empires they have a Truce with.

The Branch Offices give +50 Crime/Deviancy to the world, but can only be closed by declaring Expropriation War. The Fallen Empire will always build Branch Buildings in the same order:
  • Tourist Trap - If you're not a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Crime. +200 Energy for the FE. -200 Trade Value for this planet.
  • Grid Clot - If you're a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Deviancy. +200 Energy for the FE. -200 Energy for the host Empire.
  • Propaganda Factory - If you're not a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Crime. +100% Planet Pacifist Ethics Attraction. -16 Host Empire Naval Capacity.
  • Demoralization Billboards - If you're a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Deviancy. -16 Host Empire Naval Capacity
  • Agitator Base - If you're not a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Crime. -50 Stability.
  • Signal Interference Base - If you're a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Deviancy. -50 Stability
  • Precursor Smuggling Ports - +200 Crime/Deviancy. 50% of all resources produced on this world are instead given to the FE.
Overbearing Crimelords - This Awakened Empire seeks to forcibly 'trade' with the lesser species. They will likely open terrible Branch Offices on the worlds of any empire that will not practice shady dealings with it.

  • UPSTARTS - They can awaken from Upstarts.
  • WAR IN HEAVEN - They can trigger a second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • ANCIENT RIVALS - They CANNOT be the second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - They CANNOT be the Guardians of the Galaxy during a Crisis.
Outfit- Outfits must pay 25% of their Energy Credits and Consumer Goods to the AE. They cannot declare war except for independence. They cannot build new Starbases. And all their worlds have +9999 Crime/Deviancy.
While Fallen they can be called the:
  • Hoarders
  • Stiffs
  • Churls
When Awoken, they can be called the:
  • Extortionists
  • Blackmailers
  • Fraudsters
Dreaming Mind- This Fallen Empire is an ancient hive mind that appears to have entered a deep slumber. While asleep, it may still attack us if we get too close it.

This FE is a Hive Mind rather than Imperial, ruled by a 'Sleeper'. The government form, rather than Stagnant Ascendency, is Lethargic Consciousness - An ancient collective consciousness that has fallen asleep.
The FE's pops can work special Amenity giving jobs, much like the Machine FE's.

Homeworld is a size 25 Hive World. One jump away, a size 10 Gaia has a small collection of non-Hive species kept in Observation jobs that give Society Research.
The Fallen Empire's fleets use Strike Craft. For their X-Slot weapons, they use Tachyon Lances.
  • 1 Titan Lance
  • 12 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 4 Medium Gauss Cannons
  • 1 Tachyon Lance
  • 4 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 4 Medium Gauss Cannons
  • 1 Kinetic Artillery
  • 2 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 4 Guardian Point Defense
The Fallen Empire uses Clone Armies.
Their Final-class Colossus uses a World Cracker weapon.
While Sleeping, the FE is slightly active.

  • GIFTS - If they like you, they can give you gifts.
  • BORDER ACCESS - They will never open their borders, even if they like you.
  • They can request 10x your monthly production of food, at a minimum of 500 and maximum of 2000.
  • TASKS - They have no Tasks for anybody.
  • Similar to the Xenophobes, sharing their borders gives -200 Opinion for Disturbing Rest. They can demand you remove the outposts, and will go to war to enforce it if you refuse.
Inquisitive Experimenter - This Awakened Empire seeks to learn more about the species that exist outside its own mind. It is likely to attack any empire that will not let themselves be poked and prodded like a test subject.

Their ruler title changes from 'Sleeper' to 'Central Awareness', and the government form is now an Academic Collective - An ancient collective consciousness that is greatly interested in lives outside its mind.

Once Awoken, they have +40 Opinion to all other empires for being 'Exotic Outsiders'.
  • UPSTARTS - They can awaken from Upstarts.
  • WAR IN HEAVEN - They can trigger a second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven, but only rarely as they have no Opposite Ethic.
  • ANCIENT RIVALS - They can be the second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven, but only rarely as they have no Opposite Ethic.
  • GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - They can be the Guardians of the Galaxy during a Crisis.
Experiment- Experiments that are Mechanical have -33% Amenities on all their worlds, and give the AE as much. Experiments that are Biological instead have -75% Pop Growth on all their worlds, and give the AE as much.
While Fallen they can be called the:
  • Sleeper
  • Dreamer
  • Murmurer
When Awoken, they can be called the:
  • Inquirer
  • Learner
  • Investigator
Please do let me know what you think.
 
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KingAlamar

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I like some of the roleplay flavors you've given for the factions. It's a nice twist over the boring "get innoculated", "gimme a researcher", etc.

For game-play terms I'd like each empire's "introduction" interaction to at least hint at if not directly state things they don't like. Don't settle near us, don't despoil our holy worlds, don't interact with our citizens, don't spy on us, etc..

Just because I "white peaced" a war I wouldn't want a fallen empire to get mad and teach me what war is really about :) I know this isn't what you're saying above but you see the trap that I'd like players to be able to avoid :)
 

Methone

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For game-play terms I'd like each empire's "introduction" interaction to at least hint at if not directly state things they don't like. Don't settle near us, don't despoil our holy worlds, don't interact with our citizens, don't spy on us, etc..
Indeed, it should. Like the Spiritualist First Contact telling you "Stay away from the holy worlds OR ELSE". Though if you look, I did make sure to have the FE's 'Personality' descriptions say what they don't like.
 

KingAlamar

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Indeed, it should. Like the Spiritualist First Contact telling you "Stay away from the holy worlds OR ELSE". Though if you look, I did make sure to have the FE's 'Personality' descriptions say what they don't like.

I saw the personality description. I just wanted to be clear that the player, if paying attention, should have an idea of what the FE is about. If nothing else let them purchase something from a Curator :)
 

G S Palmer

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New thought: the Egalitarians should have a ringworld home system, to allow the most possible people to live in a carefully sculpted, environmentally controlled paradise.
 

Methone

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New thought: the Egalitarians should have a ringworld home system, to allow the most possible people to live in a carefully sculpted, environmentally controlled paradise.
Maybe. Certainly it'd give some variety to the cookie-cutter 'Gaia homeworlds' most FE have. Though it would kind of steal the Machines' thunder.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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Maybe. Certainly it'd give some variety to the cookie-cutter 'Gaia homeworlds' most FE have. Though it would kind of steal the Machines' thunder.
Not sure if you'd remember this, but the Materialists have three broken ringworlds if you don't have Synthetic Dawn installed. One has three segments intact, one has a single segment intact, the other is completely broken. They have interesting names, too.

IIRC the reason that Synthetic Dawn overrides this is because Paradox wanted to avoid making ringworlds too common/easy to get ahold of.
 

Methone

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Not sure if you'd remember this, but the Materialists have three broken ringworlds if you don't have Synthetic Dawn installed. One has three segments intact, one has a single segment intact, the other is completely broken. They have interesting names, too.

IIRC the reason that Synthetic Dawn overrides this is because Paradox wanted to avoid making ringworlds too common/easy to get ahold of.
That used to be the case up until MegaCorp was released. Since 2.2, the Materialists always have their City World capitol and Gaia World archives.
 

Methone

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Are you sure? If you have neither Megacorp nor Synthetic Dawn installed, is that still the case?
Confident. Just tested it myself; disabled every DLC, spawned in 'all' 4 FE, city-world for the materialists.
 

Pancakelord

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There should be a non-criminal MC alternative too, imo.

Fallen empire: Bankrupt Megacorp

Once, long ago, this society was so wealthy that it's streets were lined with gold, artistic masterpieces and precious gems. However a crisis left it in financial ruin, it has spent the last several millenia bogged down in civil disputes, financial litigation and restructuring proceedings.

Most of its pops would work as lawyers and financial debt consultants.

Awakened Empire:Restructured MegaCorp

This Fallen Empire now awakens, having concluded multiple several millenia long court cases and restrucuring programmes. It now sheds it's bad debts and looks outwards, towards the wider galaxy, in search of profits. The boom times are back.

Most of its pops would work as bankers and tax specialists.
 
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Tamwin5

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There should be a non-criminal MC alternative too, imo.

Fallen empire: Bankrupt Megacorp

Once, long ago, this society was so wealthy that it's streets were lined with gold, artistic masterpieces and precious gems. However a crisis left it in financial ruin, it has spent the last several millenia bogged down in civil disputes, financial litigation and restructuring proceedings.

Most of its pops would work as lawyers and financial debt consultants.

Awakened Empire:Restructured MegaCorp

This Fallen Empire now awakens, having concluded multiple several millenia long court cases and restrucuring programmes. It now sheds it's bad debts and looks outwards, towards the wider galaxy, in search of profits. The boom times are back.

Most of its pops would work as bankers and tax specialists.

I 100% think that the pacifist FE should be a Megacorp. I'd recommend you make the name use some synonyms (Bankrupt Corporation, Restructured Enterprise). I don't think there should be 2 versions of the Megacorp though, unless the other FE get alternatives as well.
 

TimeMask

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So on what I do like: I do like authoritarians and egalitarians using thrall world and resort world designations. Egalitarians definitely should be hedonistic and I like idea of them forcing good living conditions for everyone once awakened(though yeah, utopian abudance might be too strong unless that is only thing they do once awakened). I do think though that before the awakening they shouldn't bother with that, the idea that was brought up of "they invited your envoy to visit their empire and on return everyone is awed of their quality of life increasing egalitarian attraction" sounds more fitting. I'm not sure about authoritarians "just" being ultra slavers, I do think they should somehow force other empires be part of their hierarchy though. I do think whatever their subject type is though, it should be more controlling to reflect them being authoritarians. And yeah, I'd think they would use slaves and slave armies, but maybe they don't universally slave species and more of slave entire worker strata and allow upward motion in the castes? Oh wait that could be an option yeah: Have authoritarian FE's own species be the ruler caste(where every extra member without job hedonist instead), there being secondary "specialist" caste species and third uplifted worker caste species? You know more focus on class system as concept than just "enslave everyone not part of primary species".

I think one thing that authoritarians might need to use is genetic modification options more? Capacity boosters are authoratian ethic option so authoritarian FE being into using traits such as robust and other advanced trait modifications might be fitting(probably shouldn't use nerve-stapple though since xenophone FE already uses those, though I guess their worker class species could have prole or variation of it). Maybe even having their own unique modifications as part of their caste(that could be something they could reward/punish you with, if you become part of their hierarchy they give you trait part of the caste)

Fanatic pacifist one being megacorporation is great idea that solves the whole problem of fanatic pacifist fallen empire being "boring" because it would be passive and never attack you while also focusing on how pacifist faction is the economy faction. Dunno whether it being crime family would really fit the fallen empire theme though, but I do like idea of them forcing branching offices on you with severe penalties.

On militarists... Yeah, I think combination of two ideas is better("they fell into stupor because they run out of threats to challenge them, so now they just watch lesser species fight each other as a way to pass time. Awakened militarist empire is finally thinking they have a challenge again").

On hivemind fallen empire, I definitely think they should work similarly to machine intelligence fallen empire, aka being more passive before awakening(though should still be possibly to interact with them somehow even if they are a "dreamer"), might be fun if they were tied with one of other crisis somehow. Like them awakening due to presence of scourge or extra dimensional invaders. On what it is though... Not sure about "hive mind that wants to treat other species like petri dish", but idea DID grow on me. Like the hivemind being "sleeping/awakened god" super advanced hivemind organism that is utterly curious about these new things on its lawn after it wakes up while not being straight up hostile or expansionist. Whatever hive mind fe is, it shouldn't just be "turbo devouring swarm"(unless it works like custodians and there being multiple options of what it awakens as) But I do have few alternate flavor ideas myself:

"Hive of Minds" aka instead of hive mind being single psionic entity with multiple drones, it is fallen empire civilization that uploaded its mind into psionic "cloud" which downloads itself into expandable bodies as they expire making them functionally immortal. So utterly alien transhuman civilization where everyone is psionically linked with each other and they have begun to forget concepts of inviduality and mortality.

"Empire of one" aka Horatio from Endless Legends :p Aka Emperor of Fallen Empire was such big narcist that they psionically overwrote everyone in their empire with their own personality(or replaced their people with clone puppets of themselves). Its hive mind composed of single person mind controlling everyone in the empire. Essentially they are hive mind that acts more like one invidual person with multiple bodies than alien entity without concept of inviduality.

While those would be flavorful twists on hive mind fe, I do find it kinda sad there isn't really way to have them plausibly use hive world though :p I kinda like idea of hive mind which is the planet itself, but that might be fun origin too for hive minds.
 
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Methone

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idea of them forcing good living conditions for everyone once awakened(though yeah, utopian abudance might be too strong unless that is only thing they do once awakened).
That is indeed the idea; while sleeping, they just occasionally task empires they like to raise standards on empires they don't like. Once awakened, "Utopia or bust, primitives!"
I'm not sure about authoritarians "just" being ultra slavers, I do think they should somehow force other empires be part of their hierarchy though.
That is also what I included. When sleeping, they're ultra-slavers. When they wake up, they have a stratified hierarchy; the 'primitives' are their subjects, but they can have their own subjects too.
I think one thing that authoritarians might need to use is genetic modification options more?
I mentioned the Authoriatian's slaves are super-gene-modded to start.
ike the hivemind being "sleeping/awakened god" super advanced hivemind organism that is utterly curious about these new things on its lawn after it wakes up while not being straight up hostile or expansionist.
Yeah, I just didn't want "Lol the hive mind is actually a devouring swarm". Instead I went the route of "The hive mind is a rather unique form of existence compared to others, so it'd be interested in them."

Thanks the for comments and reviews! Even if this thread is a year old lol.
 

G S Palmer

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Bumping this thread so more people can see it because it's a great, well thought-out idea.