Vandervecken said:
And it sets up an interesting dynamic with Al-Andalus. They begin with good relations based on the international language of trade.
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And it sets up an interesting dynamic with Al-Andalus. They begin with good relations based on the international language of trade.
MattyG said:
I actually expected that. And it would be realistic too. One could envisage trade development of the Hansa down into Africa, investing in Andalusi expeditions south etc. Sort of like Genoan investments in Spain historically.
If for some reason you really wanted this, why not something involving the Byzantines retaking Italy? Like, if the Byzantines take over half of Italy, including Rome, they could recreate an Empire of the West (grabbing the Emperor's brother or cousin or something to sit in Rome) rather than directly ruling the people.
Obviously, the Catholic powers wouldn't like it, but a Byzantium strong enough to waste time screwing about in Italy would be better able to fight them off than a 'mad Pope'.
Obviously, the Catholic powers wouldn't like it, but a Byzantium strong enough to waste time screwing about in Italy would be better able to fight them off than a 'mad Pope'.
JohnnyReb said:
This has merit. It is still a long shot, given the religious diferences, but if the groundwork was correctly laid (through the "Councils of" type theological gatherings) there could be some acceptance of the Pope in Byzantium. In addition, successful conquest has a way of becoming accepted over time. Once the easrtern Roman empire had been firly ensconed for a century, the claims would be grundgingly accepted.
MattyG said:
I don't think the religious differences would be as irreconcilable in a world without the Fourth Crusade, at least from the Byzantine side.
MattyG said:
It would presuppose a pretty drastic shift in mindset of Byzantium... they did recognize the HEI as the successor to the WRI; it isn't impossible for them to change their minds just that it would take something pretty big. And there would be consequences..... some of which would have to be settled on the battlefield, not all, but some.
bobtdwarf said:
Wait, when did the Byzantines accept the HRE? I thought they always thought of it as an usurper crowned by a heretic Patriarch.
JohnnyReb said:
They sort of did, after the "war" they had with the Franks over Venice.
