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MPs, Screenshots, and historical rambling!
1) The next one will have fewer screenshots. The massacres at Dhaka were not to matched in scale until the Jungle War of the 1880s, though, so I figured they were worth a shot.
2) I edited in the 5 machine parts, since China in VIP starts with Publishing Industry, but with none of the machine parts that tech should grant.
A historical rambling note: Industry in china was not so underdeveloped as it is represented in Victoria, so those 5 MPs are actually overjustified, historically. The textiles manufacturing center at Foshan, for example, accounted for 4,000+ taels of raw cotton imported from India in 1815, and built a larger merchant and naval fleet than most European ones between 1683-1790, and domestic manufactures were massive, with a highly developed four-tier system of markets to move goods. However, the large population and neccessity of feeding them elsewhere means China should start out with minimal industry.
-Adso
1) The next one will have fewer screenshots. The massacres at Dhaka were not to matched in scale until the Jungle War of the 1880s, though, so I figured they were worth a shot.
2) I edited in the 5 machine parts, since China in VIP starts with Publishing Industry, but with none of the machine parts that tech should grant.
A historical rambling note: Industry in china was not so underdeveloped as it is represented in Victoria, so those 5 MPs are actually overjustified, historically. The textiles manufacturing center at Foshan, for example, accounted for 4,000+ taels of raw cotton imported from India in 1815, and built a larger merchant and naval fleet than most European ones between 1683-1790, and domestic manufactures were massive, with a highly developed four-tier system of markets to move goods. However, the large population and neccessity of feeding them elsewhere means China should start out with minimal industry.
-Adso
I've just read the recent update and very good, I must say! Personally, I say try and regain your old lands when you are ready and perhaps getting Hong Kong back later might be ideal...........still, a good update!
Oh, you should have revived the Han, not started a new dynasty! Just put some puppet Liu decendent on the throne then rule the land with a rubber stamp like Dong Zhuo and Cao Cao did 
Any thoughts of reclaiming Liaodong over by Korea from the Manchus? China has a great deal of untapped resources; you can dominate the world market if you cared to once you get all industrialized.
Any thoughts of reclaiming Liaodong over by Korea from the Manchus? China has a great deal of untapped resources; you can dominate the world market if you cared to once you get all industrialized.
Wow!
This AAR is amazing!
I just wish I could have put this much historical research into my AAR.
The writing is amazing and the historical research, too.
This AAR is amazing!
I just wish I could have put this much historical research into my AAR.
The writing is amazing and the historical research, too.
More coming!
I've played the game through to its end now, and man....that was something. China once begun is a powerhouse. The next update will include the famous July Expedition by the newly laid ships of the Chinese navy, and the Second Western War with the Cossack and Manchu barbarians. On the diplomatic front, look forward to the infamous Malay Trade Scandals that rocked the British parliament, and the explosive growth of Chinese industry.
-Adso
I've played the game through to its end now, and man....that was something. China once begun is a powerhouse. The next update will include the famous July Expedition by the newly laid ships of the Chinese navy, and the Second Western War with the Cossack and Manchu barbarians. On the diplomatic front, look forward to the infamous Malay Trade Scandals that rocked the British parliament, and the explosive growth of Chinese industry.
-Adso
Great AAR, I love it! And I'd kill for your modded events for China, I'd appreciate if you could post them...
1845-1850
First off the bat, let me introduce you to the Celestial Throne:
That city alone has more people than, say, Ireland. The glory of the Imperial City is rejuvenated by the new Emperor’s civic beautification programs, and citizens are quickly becoming quiet, orderly, and productive under the new dynasty.
In April of 1845, the long-awaited event occurs: the first new-model examinations, incorporating the sciences and focused as much around government as literature, and new governor-generals and officials are dispatched around the nation, displacing the last of the Manchu loyalists still hiding out in small officialdoms. The rule of the new dynasty is well and truly secure, and the west recognizes this security. On April 15, 1845, we are considered a Civilized nation. However, this does not mean the Celestial Empire is content to stay where it is. Indeed, progress seems inevitable...
The new tax boards of the Empire report huge increases as their officials utilize new printing presses to mass-manufacture reports, and corruption is slowly weeded out of the system…
Moreover, the Land Reclamation Councils in each district begin surveying and digging irrigation with the aid of local gentry, but under the watchful eye of the Sui dynasty officialdom, rather than for their own profit. Special attention was paid to the coal mines in the north, for their output was quickly proving essential to the new railways. (practically every RGO in the country was expanded…this being VIP, it would take a while before I saw the effects, though).
Finally, those militia not involved in garrisoning the frontier of pacifying Southeast Asia (see below) were disbanded, and the new Imperial Army was organized, slowly at first.
First off, war is declared on Siam, and my troops get down to occupying that particular piece of Southeast Asia. After all, if I produce my OWN opium there, I won’t have to get it from the English…right? My declaration turns out to be only a footnote to the strife of 1847…
After Siam is annexed, it is decided that the Malay peninsula, already dotted with British outposts and full of unruly pirates and tribal groups, is worthless and ungovernable, especially as Chinese settlers begin to settle in the more habitable river cities of Siam and Vietnam. As such, the British are contacted, and sovereignty of the area begins a slow process of transferal. Meanwhile, British investors and the new “China Merchants” bring English technology across to the Linkin Yamen (Trade Tax Board) in Nantong, to be exchanged for rights on newly purchased Malaysian iron and gold mines. In this way, Early Railroad, Post-Nelsonian Thought, and the all-important Interchangable Parts made their way into Chinese hands.
However, only a few weeks after the end of the Siamese war, and the tech trades, we saw a very, very unfortunate screen:
At the behest of their puppet-Emperors in Manchuria, the Russians had decided to complete their conquest of Gansu, and perhaps restore the Manchu Emperor to the throne.
(The Manchu puppets and foreign agressors)
At first, a sitzkreig ensued as Chinese troops fortified their mountain positions in the west, while cavalry forces clashed across the Mongolian steppe. However, as winter wore on, the Russian Far Eastern Army finally arrived, attacking the lightly garrisoned province of Golmud in huge numbers. On December 3rd, the forces of the Emperor withdrew even as he desperately attempted to direct the war from horseback north of Beijing, largely by messenger.
Sensing the Russian front a lost cause, the Emperor himself directed the invasion of Manchuria, seizing Jilin and all other centers of resistance by April. Though large contingents of Manchu forces maneuvered in the Mongolian steppes, they never brought weight of numbers to bear effectively, and the people of the Manchu and Mongolian state, disorganized and defeated, made a separate peace. The front in spring of 1849 was thus somewhat more stable, but the Russians were still nigh-ustoppable:
So in December 1849, another cession of western territory was arranged. The treaty was not signed by the Emperor himself, but his advisors met with the Russian ambassador to sign the treaty before the Russian embassy was closed, their staff exiled, and the building itself burned to the ground. There would be no more compromises with these New Mongols hence – too much territory and too many lives had been lost.
Of special note during the war was the daring “July Expedition”, in which the Chinese navy attempted to close off Russian access to the North Sea. Guided by British maps, the sizeable but inexperienced fleet rounded the Cape and reached the North Sea, only to meet defeat at the hands of the numerically and technologically superior Russian navy.
Note: the second fleet was about to join in with twenty more ships…it would not be enough.
However, the visionary admiral of the defeated fleet convinced the Emperor after the war that sea power would be the key to defeating the Russians a second time, as their navy was the only bulwark keeping England and other nations from her shores, as well as a source of great national pride.
Fortunately, though, the Second Western War was not particularly harmful to the economy, as it was fought mostly by the militias left over from the foundation of the dynasty, not the embryonic Imperial Guard. During this period, the new civil service expanded (I converted a TON of clerks)...
...and many new factories were built, including one which would prove to be the nucleus of a true revolution in the Chinese economy, using technology obtained in return for rights to the rest of the Malay Peninsula…
...and new railroads expanded, more reliable and on heavier gauge than the experimental ones of the Wuchang Line riddled the countryside, carrying the new products from the expanding land under cultivation to new cities and market towns.
Finally, the Second Grand Assemblage of Maritime Power was begun in 1850-1851, using more English technology, though the new “Dragon Junk” design owed more to Chinese engineering, using only the English principles of steam-and-sail combination in a Chinese frame.
By the end of 1854, Lunag Prabang and Cambodia, too, had been annexed, but the health of the Emperor was failing even as trade and manufactures boomed, with Machine Parts going into production in October, 1850.
Special Bonus: Finland emerges independent! Does Russia seek to balance her own BB score?
Double Special Bonus: The First Mexican War ends!
NEXT CHAPTER: 1854-60. The factories of Jiangsu begin to dominate the California Trade, and the Third Great Western War ensues…
First off the bat, let me introduce you to the Celestial Throne:
That city alone has more people than, say, Ireland. The glory of the Imperial City is rejuvenated by the new Emperor’s civic beautification programs, and citizens are quickly becoming quiet, orderly, and productive under the new dynasty.
In April of 1845, the long-awaited event occurs: the first new-model examinations, incorporating the sciences and focused as much around government as literature, and new governor-generals and officials are dispatched around the nation, displacing the last of the Manchu loyalists still hiding out in small officialdoms. The rule of the new dynasty is well and truly secure, and the west recognizes this security. On April 15, 1845, we are considered a Civilized nation. However, this does not mean the Celestial Empire is content to stay where it is. Indeed, progress seems inevitable...
The new tax boards of the Empire report huge increases as their officials utilize new printing presses to mass-manufacture reports, and corruption is slowly weeded out of the system…
Moreover, the Land Reclamation Councils in each district begin surveying and digging irrigation with the aid of local gentry, but under the watchful eye of the Sui dynasty officialdom, rather than for their own profit. Special attention was paid to the coal mines in the north, for their output was quickly proving essential to the new railways. (practically every RGO in the country was expanded…this being VIP, it would take a while before I saw the effects, though).
Finally, those militia not involved in garrisoning the frontier of pacifying Southeast Asia (see below) were disbanded, and the new Imperial Army was organized, slowly at first.
First off, war is declared on Siam, and my troops get down to occupying that particular piece of Southeast Asia. After all, if I produce my OWN opium there, I won’t have to get it from the English…right? My declaration turns out to be only a footnote to the strife of 1847…
After Siam is annexed, it is decided that the Malay peninsula, already dotted with British outposts and full of unruly pirates and tribal groups, is worthless and ungovernable, especially as Chinese settlers begin to settle in the more habitable river cities of Siam and Vietnam. As such, the British are contacted, and sovereignty of the area begins a slow process of transferal. Meanwhile, British investors and the new “China Merchants” bring English technology across to the Linkin Yamen (Trade Tax Board) in Nantong, to be exchanged for rights on newly purchased Malaysian iron and gold mines. In this way, Early Railroad, Post-Nelsonian Thought, and the all-important Interchangable Parts made their way into Chinese hands.
However, only a few weeks after the end of the Siamese war, and the tech trades, we saw a very, very unfortunate screen:
At the behest of their puppet-Emperors in Manchuria, the Russians had decided to complete their conquest of Gansu, and perhaps restore the Manchu Emperor to the throne.
(The Manchu puppets and foreign agressors)
At first, a sitzkreig ensued as Chinese troops fortified their mountain positions in the west, while cavalry forces clashed across the Mongolian steppe. However, as winter wore on, the Russian Far Eastern Army finally arrived, attacking the lightly garrisoned province of Golmud in huge numbers. On December 3rd, the forces of the Emperor withdrew even as he desperately attempted to direct the war from horseback north of Beijing, largely by messenger.
Sensing the Russian front a lost cause, the Emperor himself directed the invasion of Manchuria, seizing Jilin and all other centers of resistance by April. Though large contingents of Manchu forces maneuvered in the Mongolian steppes, they never brought weight of numbers to bear effectively, and the people of the Manchu and Mongolian state, disorganized and defeated, made a separate peace. The front in spring of 1849 was thus somewhat more stable, but the Russians were still nigh-ustoppable:
So in December 1849, another cession of western territory was arranged. The treaty was not signed by the Emperor himself, but his advisors met with the Russian ambassador to sign the treaty before the Russian embassy was closed, their staff exiled, and the building itself burned to the ground. There would be no more compromises with these New Mongols hence – too much territory and too many lives had been lost.
Of special note during the war was the daring “July Expedition”, in which the Chinese navy attempted to close off Russian access to the North Sea. Guided by British maps, the sizeable but inexperienced fleet rounded the Cape and reached the North Sea, only to meet defeat at the hands of the numerically and technologically superior Russian navy.
Note: the second fleet was about to join in with twenty more ships…it would not be enough.
However, the visionary admiral of the defeated fleet convinced the Emperor after the war that sea power would be the key to defeating the Russians a second time, as their navy was the only bulwark keeping England and other nations from her shores, as well as a source of great national pride.
Fortunately, though, the Second Western War was not particularly harmful to the economy, as it was fought mostly by the militias left over from the foundation of the dynasty, not the embryonic Imperial Guard. During this period, the new civil service expanded (I converted a TON of clerks)...
...and many new factories were built, including one which would prove to be the nucleus of a true revolution in the Chinese economy, using technology obtained in return for rights to the rest of the Malay Peninsula…
...and new railroads expanded, more reliable and on heavier gauge than the experimental ones of the Wuchang Line riddled the countryside, carrying the new products from the expanding land under cultivation to new cities and market towns.
Finally, the Second Grand Assemblage of Maritime Power was begun in 1850-1851, using more English technology, though the new “Dragon Junk” design owed more to Chinese engineering, using only the English principles of steam-and-sail combination in a Chinese frame.
By the end of 1854, Lunag Prabang and Cambodia, too, had been annexed, but the health of the Emperor was failing even as trade and manufactures boomed, with Machine Parts going into production in October, 1850.
Special Bonus: Finland emerges independent! Does Russia seek to balance her own BB score?
Double Special Bonus: The First Mexican War ends!
NEXT CHAPTER: 1854-60. The factories of Jiangsu begin to dominate the California Trade, and the Third Great Western War ensues…
Yes...
At some point, I'll certainly post them in the mods forum. However, real life has me somewhat busy at the moment, and it may be a few days.
-Adso
At some point, I'll certainly post them in the mods forum. However, real life has me somewhat busy at the moment, and it may be a few days.
-Adso
A very good update BrotherAdso! Keep up the good work and I look forward to your next update!
Well done taking China to the height that it is now. I eagerly look forward when you can pay back the Tsar for his contuinued encroachment!
Revenge and ethnicity -- more historical rambling
So I'm reading Wakeman's The Great Enterprise, and I realized that it could give you some insight into how I approach the problems of the northern quarter.
Traditionally, Chinese dynasties, espcially the Ming, encouraged alliances and confederations of northern tribes, but handed out differeing trading permits and titles to assure that the unity was a chattel for all but one tribe (often a rotating position). As such, the Manchu state (which, you'll notice, includes the Manchu homelands and the tribal confederations of Mongolia and the frontiersmen of Liaodong) would be seen by Chinese statesmen not as something to be reconquered and ruled, but as a tool or potential threat to be contained.
Similarly, lands not part of China proper were, for the non-Qing dynasties, battlegrounds and bargaining chips rather than essential areas to be valued and fought over -- thus, the cession of Turkestan is only a way to pacify the rapacious Central Asian barbarians.
Industry is carried out two-fold: many commercial industries, like textiles processing or brewing, develop in the provinces in order to supply the market-towns, and market-towns respond by developing the infrastructure to distribute these products to the subsidiary villages. Other materials, which in reality included salt and some rice, were subject to imperially-granted monopolies which certain merchant groups used to keep the prices of the good stable and supplies readily available to the government. Historically, these were not terribly well managed (though they weren't generally bungled either), but in this AAR these monopolies have been streamlined and are under more efficient oversight. Similarly, the production of western goods by Chinese artisans in the cities is subsidized by the throne on the money gained from the 'simple' monopolies, thus fuelling economic growth and centralization.
Historically, this growth was decentralized because it was farmed out to officials like Tseng Guo-Fan, who concentrated its profit and material advantage in their own areas of governorship. However, a new Emperor who rose to power on the backs of disaffected and personally powerful regional governors would be disinclined to give out power again, lest his meteoric rise be repeated by someone else.
Song dynasty neo-Confucian practice rotated officials on a regular basis between provincial posts, never allowing them a post near their home town and sometimes not in their home province, in order to make sure they never gained a loyal local following and to give them a sense of connection to all the kingdom rather than one locality. I assume that this system, which was marginally in place throughout the Qing, has been re-instated in force, thus allowing centralized offices for economic development to proceed without too much interference from the traditional Confucian beauracracy.
Heh. I'm trying to get into the mindset of my current Emperor until he dies in 1856 or so, and for each successive Emperor I'll play in their 'mold', trying to give you a sense of their character by my actions in the AAR.
-Adso
So I'm reading Wakeman's The Great Enterprise, and I realized that it could give you some insight into how I approach the problems of the northern quarter.
Traditionally, Chinese dynasties, espcially the Ming, encouraged alliances and confederations of northern tribes, but handed out differeing trading permits and titles to assure that the unity was a chattel for all but one tribe (often a rotating position). As such, the Manchu state (which, you'll notice, includes the Manchu homelands and the tribal confederations of Mongolia and the frontiersmen of Liaodong) would be seen by Chinese statesmen not as something to be reconquered and ruled, but as a tool or potential threat to be contained.
Similarly, lands not part of China proper were, for the non-Qing dynasties, battlegrounds and bargaining chips rather than essential areas to be valued and fought over -- thus, the cession of Turkestan is only a way to pacify the rapacious Central Asian barbarians.
Industry is carried out two-fold: many commercial industries, like textiles processing or brewing, develop in the provinces in order to supply the market-towns, and market-towns respond by developing the infrastructure to distribute these products to the subsidiary villages. Other materials, which in reality included salt and some rice, were subject to imperially-granted monopolies which certain merchant groups used to keep the prices of the good stable and supplies readily available to the government. Historically, these were not terribly well managed (though they weren't generally bungled either), but in this AAR these monopolies have been streamlined and are under more efficient oversight. Similarly, the production of western goods by Chinese artisans in the cities is subsidized by the throne on the money gained from the 'simple' monopolies, thus fuelling economic growth and centralization.
Historically, this growth was decentralized because it was farmed out to officials like Tseng Guo-Fan, who concentrated its profit and material advantage in their own areas of governorship. However, a new Emperor who rose to power on the backs of disaffected and personally powerful regional governors would be disinclined to give out power again, lest his meteoric rise be repeated by someone else.
Song dynasty neo-Confucian practice rotated officials on a regular basis between provincial posts, never allowing them a post near their home town and sometimes not in their home province, in order to make sure they never gained a loyal local following and to give them a sense of connection to all the kingdom rather than one locality. I assume that this system, which was marginally in place throughout the Qing, has been re-instated in force, thus allowing centralized offices for economic development to proceed without too much interference from the traditional Confucian beauracracy.
Heh. I'm trying to get into the mindset of my current Emperor until he dies in 1856 or so, and for each successive Emperor I'll play in their 'mold', trying to give you a sense of their character by my actions in the AAR.
-Adso
Thanks!
Thanks for the support, everyone! Question: what parts of this do you all enjoy most, so I can tailor the next update. Following around generals in battles? The slow march of industrial progress? Historical rambling and storyline stuff (writing ficiton is slower than writing AAR, but more should be up soon, I promise)?
Comments appreciated, of course. I can still go back and replay if you all want to see something particularly badly...
A thousand years of glorious prosperity to the Middle Kingdom!
-Adso
Thanks for the support, everyone! Question: what parts of this do you all enjoy most, so I can tailor the next update. Following around generals in battles? The slow march of industrial progress? Historical rambling and storyline stuff (writing ficiton is slower than writing AAR, but more should be up soon, I promise)?
Comments appreciated, of course. I can still go back and replay if you all want to see something particularly badly...
A thousand years of glorious prosperity to the Middle Kingdom!
-Adso
It would be nice to see a screenshot of the whole nation once in a while, so we can have an idea of what the situation is.
The Death of the Emperor
I'm working on the next event chains, having discarded what I played after 1850. The first major event will be the death of Emperor Jianlong (Yeh Ming-Chen, who led the rebellion in 1842). However, he dies childless, and in the best Chinese tradition must appoint a successor. The choices will be:
Tseng Guo-Fan , not a young man but with many years still ahead of him. He has been a trusted military commander, and indeed his corps proved essential to victory long ago in Calcutta. However, his great rival during the Indian War has since risen to great power in the English parliament, and his appointment would severely damage relations with the English. He would continue many of Yeh Ming-Chen's reforms, but the navy is not likely to get much support from him.
Effects : gain 10 RPs. Research school changed to Army-Industrial. Relations with UK -175. Lose cores on Manchuria.
Possible effects : Wars with the UK, an early succession crisis, a boom in infrastructure building.
Li Hongzhang , a very young but extremely promising civil official whose only possible flaw is a lack of connection with the powerful Imperial Army, as he commanded only late in the Western War, and has served in the Foreign Trade Yamen since then. In addition, some consider him less than honest, and he could end up interfering in the examination system or administration for his patrons and favorites. However, he is reform-minded and financially clever, and knows the ins and outs of the politics of the West better than any other statesman.
Effects: gain 20 RPs. Research school changed to Banker-Naval. Relations with Prussia, Austria, France +60. Lose cores on Manchuria.
Possible effects: Possible war with Russia (Russian advantage), involvement in European disputes, continued naval building, late succession crisis, economic shift towards free market.
Chang Ezhong (fictional): The most successful general of the Western War against both the Manchu and Russians, Chang is a military expansionist at heart, and a canny political willing to play any side off of any other until he gets what he needs. However, he is insensitive to economic questions and will curtail what he sees as an 'unneccssary' investment in reforming the schools and examination systems.
Effects: 8 RPs, Alliance with England, war with Russia (Chinese advantage), gain cores on Mongolia, Turkestan, Korea, Japan. Middle-timing succession crisis.
Succession Crisis!: No successor is chosen, a son comes forward, the succession is in grave doubt, and the generals all propsose their own candidates. Only time will tell if the Dragon Throne could survive a second civil war intact.
Well, I'd love it if the few people who are following this AAR would voice their opinion in what would make the most interesting alt-history. Remember: this event will happen sometime between 1852-1859.
-Adso
PS How many people are actually following this thread? I get the impression I've only a small audience, even for a vicky AAR.
I'm working on the next event chains, having discarded what I played after 1850. The first major event will be the death of Emperor Jianlong (Yeh Ming-Chen, who led the rebellion in 1842). However, he dies childless, and in the best Chinese tradition must appoint a successor. The choices will be:
Tseng Guo-Fan , not a young man but with many years still ahead of him. He has been a trusted military commander, and indeed his corps proved essential to victory long ago in Calcutta. However, his great rival during the Indian War has since risen to great power in the English parliament, and his appointment would severely damage relations with the English. He would continue many of Yeh Ming-Chen's reforms, but the navy is not likely to get much support from him.
Effects : gain 10 RPs. Research school changed to Army-Industrial. Relations with UK -175. Lose cores on Manchuria.
Possible effects : Wars with the UK, an early succession crisis, a boom in infrastructure building.
Li Hongzhang , a very young but extremely promising civil official whose only possible flaw is a lack of connection with the powerful Imperial Army, as he commanded only late in the Western War, and has served in the Foreign Trade Yamen since then. In addition, some consider him less than honest, and he could end up interfering in the examination system or administration for his patrons and favorites. However, he is reform-minded and financially clever, and knows the ins and outs of the politics of the West better than any other statesman.
Effects: gain 20 RPs. Research school changed to Banker-Naval. Relations with Prussia, Austria, France +60. Lose cores on Manchuria.
Possible effects: Possible war with Russia (Russian advantage), involvement in European disputes, continued naval building, late succession crisis, economic shift towards free market.
Chang Ezhong (fictional): The most successful general of the Western War against both the Manchu and Russians, Chang is a military expansionist at heart, and a canny political willing to play any side off of any other until he gets what he needs. However, he is insensitive to economic questions and will curtail what he sees as an 'unneccssary' investment in reforming the schools and examination systems.
Effects: 8 RPs, Alliance with England, war with Russia (Chinese advantage), gain cores on Mongolia, Turkestan, Korea, Japan. Middle-timing succession crisis.
Succession Crisis!: No successor is chosen, a son comes forward, the succession is in grave doubt, and the generals all propsose their own candidates. Only time will tell if the Dragon Throne could survive a second civil war intact.
Well, I'd love it if the few people who are following this AAR would voice their opinion in what would make the most interesting alt-history. Remember: this event will happen sometime between 1852-1859.
-Adso
PS How many people are actually following this thread? I get the impression I've only a small audience, even for a vicky AAR.
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