The Real Problems With Stellaris

  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

DanielPrates

Major
102 Badges
Mar 17, 2011
591
1.116
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
Agreed completely.

This has been brought up before, but I think @HFY has also clarified one of the biggest problems with Stellaris. It's trying to be a game simultaneously for the players who want a strategy game and those who a simulation/builder game (not to mention those who want an RPG, those who want a single player focus, those who want a multiplayer focus, those who want a real time experience, those who want to pause their game, etc).

It's not that anyone is wrong in this discussion. It's that a game can't be all of these things at once. The designs are incompatible, and this is a great example. A strategy game needs inherent conflict and scarcity to drive the game forward. It depends on instability, mechanics that break up equilibriums, and conflict drivers. But an empire builder/simulation game needs the opposite of that. It needs the stability and room for players to build their empires and enjoy the experience.

You can't have both at the same time, because the conflict that's necessary in a strategy game undermines the sandbox you need for a simulation.

Stellaris needs a lot of work still, but honest to god step one needs to be just deciding what kind of game Stellaris is. It will disappoint some of us, but that's better than sticking with this halfway setup that leaves everyone kind of unhappy.

Reading this sent me into 'wow' mode. I have honestly never thought about it that way. in so (or too) many discussions in this forum, many turned ugly by the way, happen because the game is partially to blame for that. The next guy wants his version of a perfect Stellaris but that will ruin my version of a perfect stellaris, and vice-versa. Come to think of it, that is bound to happen if a game is trying to be too many things at the same time; it is bound to happen that two different guys, with completely different ideas of where the game should move next, both feel the game "is" what they perceive it to be and not what the other guys thinks. Map painters want the map-painting aspects to be enhanced, RPG-ers want the roleplayng aspects to be enhanced ... they are bound to see the other guy as an adversary, an obstacle to his 'stellaris of the mind'. At the bottom of the problem is Stellaris itself, not knowing exactly what it wants to be.

Seeing this from this looking glass earlier could have saved me from many stupid discussions, part of them my fault.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Azhcristokos

Emperor of Greater Michigan
90 Badges
Oct 30, 2013
984
632
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
Stellaris needs a lot of work still, but honest to god step one needs to be just deciding what kind of game Stellaris is. It will disappoint some of us, but that's better than sticking with this halfway setup that leaves everyone kind of unhappy.

We also need a roadmap. In the early days of Stellaris, there was a sense that the game had a planned progression. PDX spiced up the midgame, threw in a lot of requested content (megastructures, hive minds, robot empires, etc.), etc. Even though we lost a lot of people with 2.0, there was still a sense of direction: war, economy, diplomacy! Such was the rallying cry. The devs also outlined their aims and wish list, which they periodically updated as they got through it.

That last bit was very important. Ever since 2.2, Stellaris has seemingly lacked a clear gameplan, or perhaps it's just not being clarified to us. A dev diary like this one for EU IV, but about a gameplan rather than suggestions, would be very welcome at this point.

It is true that there are issues that won't be solved without a sequel. That's honestly not unexpected, especially with the first entry in a series, but it's unfortunate. When it comes, I hope the direction is tighter.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

shrimpboom8

Recruit
47 Badges
Sep 12, 2020
3
1
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
You'll have to forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but all this talk of doomstacking and terrain brings up a question: Why not just use supply limit and combat width? I understand fleet capacity and force disparity already exist, but if the wiki even admits it rarely matters, why not have a way for it to matter?

Both would incentivise using multiple fleets, while being mechanics so iconic to other paradox games it's a mystery why they wouldn't be present. You could even steal all the fleet command limit techs and make the limit system based (though with a scaling penalty as opposed to a hard limit)

While we're on the topic of reducing the number of ships that can fight at once, it feels like a real missed opportunity to make a system of countering specific types of defense or weapons when you can't proactively specialize in researching one over the oth- wait a minute! (I certainly hope PDX kept those specialized lab sprites around, not to mention being able to choose your empire's weaponry)
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Camtheman

Lt. General
65 Badges
Dec 2, 2011
1.239
643
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
The real problem with stellaris summed up in two screenshots

thatswhatsheneeds.png


6 fps on an RTX 3090 with no battle going on. (top left)

You might say oh there's probably a lot of AI
jokegame.png


One core performance is really top tier programming let me tell you.
 
  • 2Like
  • 2Haha
  • 2
Reactions:

Ixal

General
75 Badges
Apr 5, 2008
2.334
2.344
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
This thread is quite a downer when you read about all the problems in Stellaris (not that it is wrong)

I kinda disagree with the FTL rework. It was not necessary, the FTL types only required a different mindset of only defending important places and tools to do that like a supply system to make enemy movements more predictable and attrition through for example planetary defenses.

The rest is spot on (sadly). The marketplace destroys the economic gameplay with it having a unlimited supply and is available everywhere and the way the galactic community was implemented, including the ability to simply buy votes, is lacking.
And yes, its very obvious that Stellaris lacks a direction and roadmap. Every lead dev had its own idea what Stellaris should be and as they changed so did the roadmap which resulted in Stellaris being a complete mess. This includes the performance problems which are mainly only there because the game was massively changed from how it was designed to work.

Sadly its very hard to fix it and would require another massive change which I do not think will happen, so the only hope is Stellaris 2 in maybe 2-3 years.
 
  • 6Like
  • 1
Reactions:

grommile

Field Marshal
60 Badges
Jun 4, 2011
19.066
20.163
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
Why not just use supply limit and combat width?
combat width needs a lore justification, because space is big and spaceships are easy to see a long way away.

supply limits are great for stopping you parking a doomstack for long periods or moving your doomstack as one big blob, but they're not so great for stopping you parking the parts of a doomstack in a position to rapidly react to an intrusion.

and supply networks HOI4 stylee are a pain to make the AI work with.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Maethendias

Colonel
23 Badges
May 17, 2017
1.179
788
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
I 100% agree. Since Megacorp, PDX has utterly failed to give this game some direction and organization. They do something, fall flat, and leave the mess to release a new DLC.

Federations in particular I think exemplifies this. The Galactic community is broken. Beyond belief. You can just buy control of the community and steer votes in any direction you want. There is no actual diplomacy either.

I think this game would be exponentially better with dynamic leaders, leaders with their own agendas. Having a disloyal admiral that might rebel and attempt a coup, a mass slave revolt that is system-spanning lead by a sympathetic governor, or possibly just a corrupt individual who lets local businesses get away with crimes. Maybe have researchers flee to other nations because they have different ethics, or were paid off. Then that would justify assassins and lead into espionage.

Also, corporations within star nations that handle specific things. This would allow the player to drop some of the micro load on AI whose specific job is to manage the production of a singular resource on one planet or star system, and to expand the production of that resource and sell said resource to both you and other empires, drastically improving trade and making the blockade of trade routes a viable strategy. Stock markets, politics centered around these corporations, and maybe even tensions between class groups. Maybe the rich militant aristocracy are fighting to preserve their ancient rights against the burgher corporations, or the poor fighting for rights. this would expand upon unrest and rebellions. Maybe a General or Admiral who is beloved by the people could make a bunch of promises and receive support from specific factions, allowing them to wage a civil war.

the above concept would be far more effective at fixing planetary autonomous management.

PDX had the ball in their court and they failed miserably.
THATS the actual problem, the "release content", and never itterate on it ever again part

especially for a game that relies so heavily on dlc and expandable content
 
  • 3
Reactions:

Yourss

Second Lieutenant
49 Badges
Dec 11, 2012
164
538
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
THATS the actual problem, the "release content", and never itterate on it ever again part

especially for a game that relies so heavily on dlc and expandable content
The latest patch notes are actually fairly good progress towards addressing long standing issues with the game. I haven't bought the last couple DLCs due to how they were being ignored.

Color me cautiously optimistic.

A warfare overhaul that makes war not a massive clickfest would make me ecstatic.
 

Maethendias

Colonel
23 Badges
May 17, 2017
1.179
788
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
The latest patch notes are actually fairly good progress towards addressing long standing issues with the game. I haven't bought the last couple DLCs due to how they were being ignored.

Color me cautiously optimistic.

A warfare overhaul that makes war not a massive clickfest would make me ecstatic.
like i said before, we will have to see
 
  • 2
Reactions:

Colonizor48

Colonel
12 Badges
Feb 5, 2021
817
790
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
The real problem with stellaris is there is no wh40k species pack. So i can exterminate the anime from the degenerate modpack i'm using using the imperium of man portrait. FOR THE EMPROROR>
 
  • 3Haha
Reactions:

Jarolleon

Captain
46 Badges
Oct 29, 2017
311
533
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II
The main problem of the jobs are the AI selection, maybe can be added Ideal race selector for each job, maybe even in the species menu.

You must be able to prioritise the Jobs for each race.
Humans: 1. Administrator, 2. etc.
Orcs: 1. Miners, 2. Farmers, 3. Soldiers etc.
Elves: 1. Researchers, 2. Priest etc.
It would be nice if certain ethics/policies unlocked that type of thing. Authoritarians could micro their populations while egalitarians are forced to be more laissez-faire most of the time. Currently all you can do is set rights to enslave to force a pop type to only do worker jobs.. and then once you're overflowing you minerals you'll have to either free some slaves or force the growth of your founder species to get more metallurgists & researchers.
I don't understand why people keep holding it up like this is a bad thing.
You are supposed to fight other Empires. That is the point of having them in the game. Imperialism is supposed to bring you into conflict with other people whose clay you want.

Stellaris has too little of this conflict, not too much. Mostly one grabs others' clay just because there's nothing else to do. Warfare is incentivised by metagame considerations (the boredom of the player), not by the game considerations (I need Planet W in order to complete Mission X which feeds into Strategy Y which feeds into Grand Strategy Z).

And yes, people always point to Inwards Perfection or Fanatic Pacifism and go "Ah-ha, whadda you say to that then! How are these guys supposed to function in a war-ier game when they don't even function in the current game?" to which my answer since 2016 has always been: it's not the imperialist gamestyle that should be changed because it fails to serve these civics, it's these civics that should be changed because they fail to fit the imperialist gamestyle. Fanatic Pacifism doesn't fit in Stellaris as-is, I agree, but that's a problem with Fanatic Pacifism, not with Stellaris as-is.
This issue is common to every Paradox game I've played besides Vicky II. Expansion has such diminishing returns that you only do it for bragging rights after a certain point. It's probably realistic (there's a negative correlation between large colonial empires and present-day wealth per capita in Europe for example) but it doesn't make for a good gameplay loop IMO. Federations patch Stellaris was pretty good in this regard for all its faults, you were driven to grab more planets, get more resources, take out some leviathans for their special systems, so you could take over the Galactic community and prevent them from passing the wrong policies, fend off the Great Khan and then beat the Crisis at whatever setting you're comfortable with. Unfortunately your reward for well-managed exponential growth was micro hell but nothing's perfect. Now that 3.0 is soft capping empire population by causing pops to require more growth points the more populous your empire is it's probably going to be another vassal swarm simulator like EU4 or Imperator.
 
Last edited:

Dan the cynical barbarian

Second Lieutenant
46 Badges
Jul 30, 2016
136
420
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Introduction

Hi.

I'd like to preface this post by saying that this is an opinion piece by me, a veteran of the game who started playing since just before Synthetic Dawn came out. That may not be veteranly enough for some of you, but I think I can speak to the state of the game as I've been there for every major update.

After browsing the forums for a bit, I noticed people getting upset with the way Paradox has been treating Stellaris lately, but a lot of the complaints miss what I think are the real problems with the game, which is where this post comes in. I will break down the issues the game has in its current state, and while I may not be able to provide adequate solutions, hopefully this post will allow people to brainstorm their own.

This will get very rant-y.

Pre-2.0

I started playing the game just before Synthetic Dawn and instantly fell in love. The game was incredibly complex and reminded me a lot of Civilization V, which is a game I love to death. The ability to create your own empires was amazing, since most strategy games have a set of pre-made empires and only sometimes a half-hearted attempt at customization, whereas in Stellaris the customization is the point of the game - the pre-made empires are just there to give you an idea of what kind of empire you can design yourself.

However, the game was lacking in the strategic sense of things. Wars came down to one major battle between two opposing deathstacked fleets, where the winner of the battle would then proceed to win the war. There was basically no way to defend your territory because of how underdeveloped the concept of military stations was, and the multiple FTL types meant there was no galactic "terrain" - no naturally defensible areas one could "dig into". Then, 2.0.

Apocalypse and patch 2.0

A common opinion in the community seems to be that the FTL rework 2.0 brought in was a terrible idea and took away from the game. I struggle to contain the frustration I have with these people, as they could not be any more incorrect.

The FTL rework was not just good, it was great. Moreover, it was necessary.

Before 2.0, I would always play the game with every empire forced to use the hyperlane FTL type, and it made the game a little more strategic as maneuvering your fleets around enemy territory became an actual part of invasion strategy. However, with 2.0, Paradox took it to a whole new level. Taking out the penalty for traversing hyperlanes far from home made movement much more strategic since fleet speed became an actual factor, and the removal of the god-awful Frontier Outposts was a great idea (see Civilization IV's culture-based city borders vs Civilization V's static hex claiming). The galaxy finally had terrain one could move about and dig into with the new amazing starbases, which were balanced very well to allow a defensive playstyle.

There are two common complaints about this system which I will now proceed to get very frustrated with.

The more common of the two complaints is that by removing the other FTL types, Paradox took out customization options and content which users paid for. The response to this is twofold - firstly, the FTL types were essentially identical. The wormhole and the old "jump" FTL were just a cosmetic change. The problem was very clear - they allowed you to bypass all enemy defenses and jump straight to your destination instead of having to navigate through enemy defenses. It was a bad system, and it had to go.

The other comment is that the new hyperlane "borders" make for the same kind of warfare as before - you defeat an enemy in one giant battle (except this time it's at a chokepoint between your empires) and then proceed to win the war. This line of thinking is also incorrect, for multiple reasons. With the new disengaging from combat feature an empire could very quickly come back from losing a large battle since most of its ships could simply be repaired, and if you end up winning a war after one decisive battle, you were probably fighting an opponent who is incredibly weak and you would wipe the floor with regardless. In addition, there is never just one chokepoint, your empire does not consist of just one star system, so even if one particular enemy might only have one chokepoint connecting your empire with theirs, you could always be invaded on another front on another side of your empire - the galactic terrain doing its job.

The FTL rework was objectively good, and it's a real shame that so many people in the community protesting Paradox's handling of Stellaris don't seem to realize this.

MegaCorp and 2.2

This is where things get sour.

With the amazing patches that were 2.0 and 2.1, I was excited for MegaCorp. There were some red flags, like the fact that the new jobs system was managed by an AI, since Paradox has an excellent track record of having terrible AI in nearly all of its games (Stellaris most definitely included), but with how well Paradox reworked FTL, I was ready to be proven wrong.

I wasn't.

Ignoring the usual initial hiccups where Paradox always releases its DLCs and major patches in unfinished, barely playtested form (something that's par for the course if you're a Paradox veteran), the new system was a disaster. Paradox set out several goals for the new jobs system:
1. Reducing micromanagement so that players can focus on the macro level of strategy
2. Encouraging players to play more tall builds instead of wide
3. Encouraging players to play more multi-ethnic empires, like xenophiles

All of these goals were failed spectacularly, and I will now break down how and why.

Goal the first: Paradox wanted to reduce the level of micro necessary to keep an empire running efficiently. What ended up being accomplished was the opposite; before 2.2, planets needed to be micromanaged to get more efficient. You had to place the correct pops on the correct tiles with the correct buildings on them in the correct order to squeeze out the maximum possible efficiency out of them. You micromanaged to get the best possible results. Now, you micromanage as damage control against the awful job AI which fails to put any of the pops in the right jobs. There are so many problems with this system with so many specific examples I could give that I would completely stray from the main point of this post if I were to list them all, but I'll give one example: pops don't always promote to the higher level of stratum, even if there are slots open, when you prioritize low-strata jobs.

Goal the second: they wanted to encourage players to play more tall builds. This was accomplished at the cost of wide empires being nerfed into the ground, as to stay under your administrative capacity you have to build tons of buildings which increase the cap, buildings you don't have space for because building slots are now extremely valuable, meaning you have to either take massive sprawl penalties or forsake your economy in order to keep up with the new system.

And finally, goal the third: Paradox wanted people to play more multi-ethnic empires. The new jobs system had the opposite effect, as the jobs AI fails to put the best pops with the best traits on the correct tiles, and because only one pop can grow at a time, you will never hit the right balance of pops for each species to be able to cover every job every specific species is good at. You could do population controls, but then you take a flat penalty to growth for wanting a more efficient planet, and you also get no notification for when a new pop is born, so if you forget about a planet for a few years, you'll come back to a world full of a species that is now working jobs it's less efficient at than another species.

The jobs system is terrible. I played several games with the most up-to-date version, and ran into massive problems every time. My favorite empire type, a syncretic evolution slave empire, was nerfed into the ground not by balance changes, but mechanically. It's not longer possible to play efficiently unless your empire is homogenous.

In addition, the new market system meant resources are now worthless, since whenever you run low on any resource all you have to do is dump your stockpile of whatever you have too much of and buy whatever you're missing, completely destroying trade with other empires, since it was now obsolete.

Stellaris: Federations, or why democracy doesn't work

The bad continued.

With none of the issues from 2.2 solved, Paradox released Federations, which was surprisingly well-received despite not adding anything to the game other than more problems you could only do damage control against.

The Galactic Community is implemented incredibly poorly. The fact that the proposals to be put to the senate floor have to have the most support from the galaxy means any proposal that does make it to the senate floor will inevitably pass with near perfect support. In addition, the random nature of the game means if you are an authoritarian empire that happened to spawn into a galaxy of egalitarians, you will lose on every single issue in the galactic community and end up taking massive penalties for it.

The new diplomacy system is also laughably bad, as it accomplishes literally nothing: to propose friendly actions you have to either be in good relations with an empire OR have an envoy sent to improve relations, meaning there is literally no requirement for any diplomatic actions since all you have to do is send an envoy to make deals with other empires. Sure, they might not accept any if your opinion with them is too low, but that also doesn't matter as harming relations is incredibly easy. In addition, you can tell that Paradox didn't even bother integrating this new system into how things used to work as all opinion modifiers from back in the day stayed the exact same despite the fact that opinions now range from -3000 to 3000 compared to the typical opinion ranges of -200 to 200 of the old system (yes, I know they could get higher or lower than that, but opinions under -200 under the old system basically meant you were never going to make friends with that empire anyway and opinions over 200 are just redundant).

Instead of reworking international diplomacy, Federations should have reworked internal politics, making factions more in-depth and ethics a more fluid system to drift between.

The Conclusion

Stellaris 2.1.3 was for me personally the last fun version of the game. While the new updates did add some nice features, like the way origins are split from civics, and new content that doesn't affect game balance too much, like events, it's not worth playing any later version because the game is wildly unbalanced and full of design oversights.

If you have any questions or disagreements, feel free to comment or PM me, I'd be happy to have a conversation about any of these points or anything else the community might think I missed or was wrong about.

P.S. The archaeology DLC was really stupid. It's literally just anomalies that take multiple attempts to research. Fight me.

Edit the First:
Stellaris had plenty of problems back in 2.1.3, but they were problems that could only be felt by an experienced player with hundreds of hours in the game. For example, in the mid-game of Stellaris there is nothing that drives you to invade other empires. In Civilization V, for example, there is always a reason to invade one of your neighbors: one of them might have a strategic resource that you don't have, or is getting close to a particular victory condition, or they might snowball out of control if you don't stop them now. In Stellaris, I often find myself thinking "I should probably invade one of my neighbors because that is what you do in this game that I am playing", instead of being organically driven to do this due to well-implemented game mechanics.

With versions 2.2 onwards, the problems in Stellaris became very low-level. The constant damage control against the jobs system, the lack of selective purging (which was taken out in 2.2 and never properly re-implemented all the way up to 2.7 despite the patch notes never saying it was removed), the new resources which now cause you to sit on a giant stockpile of everything because you can't spend any due to lack of building slots... These problems didn't exist before 2.2 because the game was actually pretty well-balanced.

Edit the Second:
You might have noticed that I didn't mention performance issues anywhere in this thread and that is because I have a computer that can run Stellaris pretty well even hundreds of years into the game. While I realize that performance issues are a problem for many others, my concerns are primarily centered around game balance and design.

Edit the Third:
Unless you have some kind of genius revelation that nobody else has had in the last two years, I won't be engaging with anyone who tries to defend the old FTL system pre-2.0. It has already been talked to death, and also you're wrong.

4th Edit:
Changed the phrasing a little bit to be less hostile. I was being unnecessarily rude in some places.

Edit #5:
I also feel the need to mention that selective purging has been broken since 2.2 came out. It's now called "forced decline", and it doesn't work; Gestalt Consciousness empires may not force decline on their own population (for no reason), and while non-GC empire may force decline on enslaved species, the decline speed is set to the base of 5/month (so the extermination speed boost doesn't apply), and forced decline stops automatically after one pop is purged. This means you have to go back and restart the decline again if you want to exterminate just one planet and not an entire species.

As a little cherry on top, pre-sapients may not be forced to decline with the "tolerated" policy, and the extermination policy literally does nothing.

This means pre-sapient pops are permanent unless you choose to uplift them. Also, pre-sapient and certain primitive jobs have a limit of -1, and pre-sapient "jobs" count towards the job limit, meaning your unemployment calculations will always be off by the number of pre-sapients on the planet.

It's hard to believe that Paradox cares.
I have set my Stellaris game to 2.2 in properties and never looked back and for what i saw, things have only gotten worse. What made me do it in the first place was the replacing of the old Pops and Planet layout/interface with the new one, that was what made me give up
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Oscot

King of Space Portugal
12 Badges
Oct 14, 2014
2.191
5.422
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings II
Wrong. It can and MUST be both. Or else why will I go to war? To protect my 300 amenity worlds of utopian abundant unemployed doing research. You threaten my utopia, I liberate your people. You touch my utopia, I GLASS YOUR WORLDS.
I think (hope?) all of us have the same paternal (maternal?) affection for our provinces no matter how poor they are. I am just as defensive about my CKII impoverished Icelandic peasants licking lichen off the rocks in Vestisland as I am about my Stellaris Star Trek utopian green skinned space babe fully automated luxury communism. It is not necessary that my empire have sandbox-tier resource abundance for me to want to kill everyone who would do them harm.

But that's a reason to fight a defensive war; the problem Stellaris has is: why does anyone want to fight an offensive war? Privation can, of course, be one answer to this question: I go to war because I'm running out of space oil and you have some. Personally I really love EUIV mission trees (were they from HOI originally? idk, don't have that one), which give you positive reasons to go to war: "Yeah, your nation's great already, but if you did THIS it would be super-extra great". Stellaris could profit from them.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Jarolleon

Captain
46 Badges
Oct 29, 2017
311
533
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II
I think (hope?) all of us have the same paternal (maternal?) affection for our provinces no matter how poor they are. I am just as defensive about my CKII impoverished Icelandic peasants licking lichen off the rocks in Vestisland as I am about my Stellaris Star Trek utopian green skinned space babe fully automated luxury communism. It is not necessary that my empire have sandbox-tier resource abundance for me to want to kill everyone who would do them harm.

But that's a reason to fight a defensive war; the problem Stellaris has is: why does anyone want to fight an offensive war? Privation can, of course, be one answer to this question: I go to war because I'm running out of space oil and you have some. Personally I really love EUIV mission trees (were they from HOI originally? idk, don't have that one), which give you positive reasons to go to war: "Yeah, your nation's great already, but if you did THIS it would be super-extra great". Stellaris could profit from them.
Things like megastructures, uncolonised planets of the correct climate and wormholes provide a decent goal for conquest.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

methegrate

General
23 Badges
Jun 20, 2016
2.093
2.551
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II
Things like megastructures, uncolonised planets of the correct climate and wormholes provide a decent goal for conquest.

I'm not sure I see that.

The problem is that I don't feel like Stellaris gives me a reason why I want or need those things. Even a modest empire has such as massive economy that it easily meets all of its wants and needs. In that environment, why do I declare war to take that megastructure or planet? When I already have more energy coming in than I can spend, what difference does a Dyson sphere make?

The same with wormholes. Where does that wormhole take me that I want or need to go? There is no trade on the galaxy map, nor would I need those resources even if there were, so why would I declare war on someone to get the wormhole?

The answer, generally, is that you're supposed to role play, so headcanon will give you the reason to launch wars on another empire. But that's just the metagame. None of that has to do with the reward and punishment system run by the game itself.

I think @TrotBot's example is a good one. You can build a utopia of incredible science, and launch a horrific defensive war to protect it, but why would someone attack in the first place? I can generate all of that research and more in my own empire without sacrificing any other area of production. What do they have that I need? The answer is generally, nothing.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

TrotBot

Captain
45 Badges
Feb 2, 2018
491
674
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
I'm not sure I see that.

The problem is that I don't feel like Stellaris gives me a reason why I want or need those things. Even a modest empire has such as massive economy that it easily meets all of its wants and needs. In that environment, why do I declare war to take that megastructure or planet? When I already have more energy coming in than I can spend, what difference does a Dyson sphere make?

The same with wormholes. Where does that wormhole take me that I want or need to go? There is no trade on the galaxy map, nor would I need those resources even if there were, so why would I declare war on someone to get the wormhole?

The answer, generally, is that you're supposed to role play, so headcanon will give you the reason to launch wars on another empire. But that's just the metagame. None of that has to do with the reward and punishment system run by the game itself.

I think @TrotBot's example is a good one. You can build a utopia of incredible science, and launch a horrific defensive war to protect it, but why would someone attack in the first place? I can generate all of that research and more in my own empire without sacrificing any other area of production. What do they have that I need? The answer is generally, nothing.
That's not a case of the game being boring, that's you being boring. Slavers know to attack me because if they don't strike first I'm gonna liberate their slaves with my revolutionary armada. If you're lethargic and have mono, no gameplay mechanics will force you to do anything. Maybe try to play like you're not paralyzed from the waist down and you might find things are fun to do without requiring a 2000 page thesis to explain why you need to do them.
 
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

HFY

Lt. General
26 Badges
May 15, 2016
1.677
3.230
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
Even a modest empire has such as massive economy that it easily meets all of its wants and needs. In that environment, why do I declare war to take that megastructure or planet?
Those space elves aren't going to enslave themselves.

But seriously yeah, there's a significant disconnect between the play styles that the game purports to support (e.g. Inward Perfection) and the victory conditions that the game recognizes (i.e. painting the map with bullets).

If a peaceful isolationist empire with a strong economy could win the game (in civ terms, a science victory or culture victory); and a peaceful Xenophile empire could win the game (in civ terms, a diplomatic victory or religious victory); then you could build towards something other than conquest, and paradoxically that could also give you some solid reasons to go conquer someone.

(Specifically, if you see an AI getting too close to a peaceful victory condition, you'd better find a way to declare on the bastard.)

More victory conditions would give the game some much-needed flavor.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

methegrate

General
23 Badges
Jun 20, 2016
2.093
2.551
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II
That's not a case of the game being boring, that's you being boring. Slavers know to attack me because if they don't strike first I'm gonna liberate their slaves with my revolutionary armada. If you're lethargic and have mono, no gameplay mechanics will force you to do anything. Maybe try to play like you're not paralyzed from the waist down and you might find things are fun to do without requiring a 2000 page thesis to explain why you need to do them.

Per my last email: The answer, generally, is that you're supposed to role play, so headcanon will give you the reason to launch wars on another empire. But that's just the metagame. None of that has to do with the reward and punishment system run by the game itself.
 

HFY

Lt. General
26 Badges
May 15, 2016
1.677
3.230
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
Don't Federations win together?
Not like a Diplomatic or Religious victory in Civ.

Not like an Economic or Diplomatic victory in SMAC.

So: no, not peacefully they don't.
 
  • 1
Reactions: