Maybe it is time to set up an early style guillotine?
if you could get away with it.
if you could get away with it.
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Good to see early Brits leading the way with regards to the booze cruise.
Very troubling if gripping stuff with the populists finally gaining control. Already there seems to be considerable problems following from this, and it is likely only going to get worse. To which I can only say, wonderful (for us readers, not so much for you!)!
Dang. You beat me to it.
The Populists are turning out to be, indeed, the bad news that was always forecast. Oh well, we'll bid adieu to the peaceful expansion of Roman 'protection' for a while, and instead we'll see what amount of infighting we can witness.
Now, let's just hope that none of the other powers (Egregious Egypt, the Slippery Seleucids or the Pestilent Pontics) don't scent the blood in the water and descend on the Roman Republic...
Now we have the Populist in power ... that is nice I assume that the subtler ways to remove them did not work and that it is time to brace for impact and watch the nasty civil war that is brewing. It is almost sure that when it happens Rome will lose some provinces to the remaining powers that border them ...
I assume that the subtler ways to remove them did not work and that it is time to brace for impact and watch the nasty civil war that is brewing. It is almost sure that when it happens Rome will lose some provinces to the remaining powers that border them ...
well all of you who have been wanting a bit more robust approach to domestic politics will be delighted at the next two updates ... the first one just dips a toe in some very murky waters, but once you have a taste for these things it does lead onto harder stuff.
aye, I loved that impression of a bunch of blokes in white chariots (I presume this is too early for white transit vans as such) heading for Calais. Fortunately this time all their proceeds were taken off before they escaped but Britain (& in particular Scotland) will play quite a role as we go forward.
Dang. You beat me to it.
The Populists are turning out to be, indeed, the bad news that was always forecast. Oh well, we'll bid adieu to the peaceful expansion of Roman 'protection' for a while, and instead we'll see what amount of infighting we can witness.
Now, let's just hope that none of the other powers (Egregious Egypt, the Slippery Seleucids or the Pestilent Pontics) don't scent the blood in the water and descend on the Roman Republic...
well that really is the challenge, but don't forget the very real threat from the peated Picts and dangerous Dacians. But of your list it is EE that really worries me.
Now we have the Populist in power ... that is nice
well I think I've managed a rubbish job at keeping them out of power (but this start date seems to encourage them a bit) and quite a neat job at avoiding civil war ... for a little while
Domestic Politics: 695-699 AUC
Although Octavius’ consulship was highly disruptive to the other factions, in truth his period in office ended quite conventionally. He served his two years and stood down to be followed by Cinna.
One of Cinna’s first acts was to restore the emphasis on the legions as the key to Roman power.
In other respects, there was more continuity than perhaps either side wished to accept. Cinna took advantage of the successes on the lower Danube to extend Roman control in that region.
And was quite prepared to use patronage when it meant one of his allies gained a key Province and his own faction gained power in the Senate.
Even if Lucius Ceasar immediately made himself unpopular with those in the region who did not wish to accept Roman customs (or to pay Roman taxes)
This focus on the Danubian frontier, and Rome’s search for her natural borders led to growing friction with the Dacian kingdom to the north.
However, even though the Populists had lost the Consulship they were strong enough to block any further Roman expansion either on the Danube or in the East.
Cinna used their blocking tactics over Dacia to cause them substantial damage. He made a strong case that Rome’s new settlements were now left at risk due to the Populists preventing the removal of such a powerful external threat. However, the Populists remained the single most dominant faction in the Senate.
However, a purge of their office holders meant that by June 697, it appeared as if their influence was waning.
In other respects, Cinna was a successful consul, developing the navy both in terms of numbers and quality.
Key to Roman appreciation of the international situation was the need to ensure the navy could defeat that of Egypt in a war. If so, then any such war could be contained and Rome would retain the strategic initiative.
However, a more immediate threat was that of internal revolt. In this period Greece was particularly restive as local politicians raised the mirage of independence at a time of wider anger at Roman rule. But similar revolts broke out in Italy and briefly, Rome itself came under siege. None of these events represented a real threat and none really distracted the Senate from its primary interest – its own political machinations.
By September 697, the apparent return to normality in Roman politics was confirmed when Gaius Scipio took on the consulship.
Shortly afterwards, Lucius Octavius died of old age.
He had led the Populist faction for almost 15 years and had had one great advantage. Even his many political opponents accepted him as an honourable man who had served the Republic and prevented his faction joining with Lucius Cinna’s civil war.
Initially it appeared as if the Populists actually gained prestige with his death, but this was mainly a product of the destruction that had occurred in a number of provincial rebellions.
However, Marcus Vento lacked the personal popularity of Octavius and the other factions resolved to end the Populist popularity by the simple expedient of throwing him in jail.
He escaped, depriving his faction of a martyr and leaving it without effective leadership. With hindsight, this simple act of political expediency was to set off a chain of events that changed the Republic fundamentally. However, the immediate result was a simple redivision of the spoils of public office.
This seemed to return the Republic to relative stability as the wave of provincial revolts ceased and stability increased [1].
By May 699, the Populists had lost all influence outside their own faction.
Decius Sulla’s consulship in September seemed to confirm this optimism.
An illusion that was to be soon shattered.
[1] – I invested twice in the increase stability event as the frequent revolts meant I had a lot of looted provinces and thus Populist attraction. Equally at +2, I could declare war on the Seleucids and pay a price for not having a valid CB. With a religious consul this was fairly cheap and I don't have a huge use for the cash pile I otherwise build up.
Although Octavius’ consulship was highly disruptive to the other factions, in truth his period in office ended quite conventionally. He served his two years and stood down to be followed by Cinna.
One of Cinna’s first acts was to restore the emphasis on the legions as the key to Roman power.
In other respects, there was more continuity than perhaps either side wished to accept. Cinna took advantage of the successes on the lower Danube to extend Roman control in that region.
And was quite prepared to use patronage when it meant one of his allies gained a key Province and his own faction gained power in the Senate.
Even if Lucius Ceasar immediately made himself unpopular with those in the region who did not wish to accept Roman customs (or to pay Roman taxes)
This focus on the Danubian frontier, and Rome’s search for her natural borders led to growing friction with the Dacian kingdom to the north.
However, even though the Populists had lost the Consulship they were strong enough to block any further Roman expansion either on the Danube or in the East.
Cinna used their blocking tactics over Dacia to cause them substantial damage. He made a strong case that Rome’s new settlements were now left at risk due to the Populists preventing the removal of such a powerful external threat. However, the Populists remained the single most dominant faction in the Senate.
However, a purge of their office holders meant that by June 697, it appeared as if their influence was waning.
In other respects, Cinna was a successful consul, developing the navy both in terms of numbers and quality.
Key to Roman appreciation of the international situation was the need to ensure the navy could defeat that of Egypt in a war. If so, then any such war could be contained and Rome would retain the strategic initiative.
However, a more immediate threat was that of internal revolt. In this period Greece was particularly restive as local politicians raised the mirage of independence at a time of wider anger at Roman rule. But similar revolts broke out in Italy and briefly, Rome itself came under siege. None of these events represented a real threat and none really distracted the Senate from its primary interest – its own political machinations.
By September 697, the apparent return to normality in Roman politics was confirmed when Gaius Scipio took on the consulship.
Shortly afterwards, Lucius Octavius died of old age.
He had led the Populist faction for almost 15 years and had had one great advantage. Even his many political opponents accepted him as an honourable man who had served the Republic and prevented his faction joining with Lucius Cinna’s civil war.
Initially it appeared as if the Populists actually gained prestige with his death, but this was mainly a product of the destruction that had occurred in a number of provincial rebellions.
However, Marcus Vento lacked the personal popularity of Octavius and the other factions resolved to end the Populist popularity by the simple expedient of throwing him in jail.
He escaped, depriving his faction of a martyr and leaving it without effective leadership. With hindsight, this simple act of political expediency was to set off a chain of events that changed the Republic fundamentally. However, the immediate result was a simple redivision of the spoils of public office.
This seemed to return the Republic to relative stability as the wave of provincial revolts ceased and stability increased [1].
By May 699, the Populists had lost all influence outside their own faction.
Decius Sulla’s consulship in September seemed to confirm this optimism.
An illusion that was to be soon shattered.
[1] – I invested twice in the increase stability event as the frequent revolts meant I had a lot of looted provinces and thus Populist attraction. Equally at +2, I could declare war on the Seleucids and pay a price for not having a valid CB. With a religious consul this was fairly cheap and I don't have a huge use for the cash pile I otherwise build up.
Ah yes, it might seem that exiling someone is not physically or mentally dangerous, or habit-forming, but it opens the door to the heavier stuff. Exiling: the gateway drug that directly leads to assassination and sham judicial executions.
It looks like you've effectively marginalized the Populists (and in just four short years - impressive), but using my finely honed reading-the-lines technique, it appears that not all is as it seems. I wonder if the next wave to rock the Republican boat will come from inside or outside?
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Fascinating update. I really like the way you capture the internal conflict of the state. First rate.
The fools! They allow the tyrannical Dacia to continue running amok, daring as she does to live peacefully!
As ever, great stuff, very much enjoying the constant political machinations. Very intrigued as to what the Populists will try next.
Just as it looks like the Populists are going to be smacked into place, you go ahead and say that it was "an illussion that was going to be shattered." Well goddamit!
In spite of all the good work done to contain the populist, all of the update reeks of too little ( otherwise you would punish the Dacians for their arrogance of being in their homeland ) and most likely too late to avoid some serious consequences. In fact I wonder if this wasn't worse if you look at the long term ...
Anyway, long live to Decius Sulla and that his consulship is not rudely interrupted by some populist mob
) and most likely too late to avoid some serious consequences. In fact I wonder if this wasn't worse if you look at the long term ...Anyway, long live to Decius Sulla and that his consulship is not rudely interrupted by some populist mob
Ah yes, it might seem that exiling someone is not physically or mentally dangerous, or habit-forming, but it opens the door to the heavier stuff. Exiling: the gateway drug that directly leads to assassination and sham judicial executions.
It looks like you've effectively marginalized the Populists (and in just four short years - impressive), but using my finely honed reading-the-lines technique, it appears that not all is as it seems. I wonder if the next wave to rock the Republican boat will come from inside or outside?
yep, one whiff of the extra-judicial stuff and next you know state sponsored murder just seems so logical ... Next upset is external, the one after ... ah well all will be revealed at a later stage.
Playing this sequence put me in mind of playing CK1, esp if you were playing to write an AAR. Events that made no logical sense would pop up that either presented the narrative to you on a plate or were pure comedy gold, well mostly in Rome I find the events give flavour but don't really twist the entire game around. Mostly .... most often ... usually ... sort of
glad you like it. I'm actually find the internal political elements the most fun to write. I think its because you have enough actual in-game events that the narrative is grounded in the game but at the same time there is plenty of scope to impose a logic and a flow. The external wars etc, I find its more a case of reporting pretty much what happened.
Dacia will be dealt with, but first the not so lucid Seleucids pop their heads over the parapet and then the evil Picts threaten the core of the Republic ... and more people are sent on forced Mediterranean cruises.
well at this stage, I did think it was under control, and Sulla's consulship allowed me to swat them some more. But there are surprises a plenty to come ...
In spite of all the good work done to contain the populist, all of the update reeks of too little ( otherwise you would punish the Dacians for their arrogance of being in their homeland
Anyway, long live to Decius Sulla and that his consulship is not rudely interrupted by some populist mob
well the lure of Dictatorship becomes very hard to resist as every time I think they are under control and their leader is an utter numpty, they regain strength. It makes for a very unstable period of game play (but very addictive too)
The Third Syrian War, 699-701 AUC
Sulla’s consulship opened with clear evidence that the recent popularity of the Populist faction was waning. In effect, they had no appeal outside those fully committed to their cause, which significantly reduced their chances of regaining the consulship.
Quite simply it appeared as if Piso lacked any appeal or any redeeming traits.
As it was the opening period of Sulla‘s consulship saw little that disturbed the surface calm (just revolts, barbarians and corrupt governors) until the foul murder of Septimus Plucher by the Seleucids in September 700 [1[
The assassin confessed and was promptly executed as emotions in Rome ran high.
However, here Piso made a serious mistake when he used his factional strength in the Senate to block any military intervention.
In consequence, support for the Populists further reduced and Sulla was able to use the widespread indignation to declare war in October 700.
Fortunately Pontus opted to stay neutral in this war between her allies allowing Rome to concentrate on the Seleucids. The opening stage saw the major battle at Antioch.
Rome’s victory went a long way to reassuring those who had been concerned that the policy in the last 10 years of recruiting mercenaries would weaken the legions since over 65% of the cohorts present were no longer reliant on the traditional citizen levy.
By the end of October both Antioch and Commagne were under Roman control
The two armies clashed again in Sophene in November
With the legions again emerging victorious after another hard fought struggle.
By April 701, the bulk of the richer Seleucid provinces were occupied and the legions won a further major battle of Artashat
Sulla’s faction gained considerable support with the fall of Coele-Syria and the promise of a devastating victory over the hated Seleucids.
The resulting peace treaty saw territorial gains that extended Rome’s influence in the region
Having emerged victorious in the war, Sulla took full revenge on the populists.
Several of their leaders were jailed for treason and banished, significantly weakening the Populist power in the Senate.
However, with the successful conclusion of the war in the East, the Senate’s attention was drawn to the fast emerging threat offered by the Picts. This began the long, and often disastrous, campaign in the inhospitable British islands.
In consequence, the 14th legion was dispatched to bring Roman civilisation to the far north.
With this, Sulla’s term ended, with the Consulship passing, as expected, to Gnaues Lentulus who took power on 4 September 701.
What was really not expected is what happened next.
[1] – I had been building up stability with the view to a DoW with no CB (with a religious consul this is fairly cheap), but this did surprise me. Not as much as what happened to Lentulus, buy you will have to wait to find that out.
Sulla’s consulship opened with clear evidence that the recent popularity of the Populist faction was waning. In effect, they had no appeal outside those fully committed to their cause, which significantly reduced their chances of regaining the consulship.
Quite simply it appeared as if Piso lacked any appeal or any redeeming traits.
As it was the opening period of Sulla‘s consulship saw little that disturbed the surface calm (just revolts, barbarians and corrupt governors) until the foul murder of Septimus Plucher by the Seleucids in September 700 [1[
The assassin confessed and was promptly executed as emotions in Rome ran high.
However, here Piso made a serious mistake when he used his factional strength in the Senate to block any military intervention.
In consequence, support for the Populists further reduced and Sulla was able to use the widespread indignation to declare war in October 700.
Fortunately Pontus opted to stay neutral in this war between her allies allowing Rome to concentrate on the Seleucids. The opening stage saw the major battle at Antioch.
Rome’s victory went a long way to reassuring those who had been concerned that the policy in the last 10 years of recruiting mercenaries would weaken the legions since over 65% of the cohorts present were no longer reliant on the traditional citizen levy.
By the end of October both Antioch and Commagne were under Roman control
The two armies clashed again in Sophene in November
With the legions again emerging victorious after another hard fought struggle.
By April 701, the bulk of the richer Seleucid provinces were occupied and the legions won a further major battle of Artashat
Sulla’s faction gained considerable support with the fall of Coele-Syria and the promise of a devastating victory over the hated Seleucids.
The resulting peace treaty saw territorial gains that extended Rome’s influence in the region
Having emerged victorious in the war, Sulla took full revenge on the populists.
Several of their leaders were jailed for treason and banished, significantly weakening the Populist power in the Senate.
However, with the successful conclusion of the war in the East, the Senate’s attention was drawn to the fast emerging threat offered by the Picts. This began the long, and often disastrous, campaign in the inhospitable British islands.
In consequence, the 14th legion was dispatched to bring Roman civilisation to the far north.
With this, Sulla’s term ended, with the Consulship passing, as expected, to Gnaues Lentulus who took power on 4 September 701.
What was really not expected is what happened next.
[1] – I had been building up stability with the view to a DoW with no CB (with a religious consul this is fairly cheap), but this did surprise me. Not as much as what happened to Lentulus, buy you will have to wait to find that out.
In terms of futility, this might be on par with Sisyphus pushing that rock up the mountain.
Good war against the Seleucids, but wouldn't it have made more sense to try to connect your Syrian possessions with your Anatolian ones, instead of expanding into Armenia? I don't know the map well enough, but I'd wager that there's only one Mediterranean province separating your Levantine holdings from Asia Minor - Antioch?
You tease!
I'm guessing the Populists strike back in some fashion, they certainly need to having been decimated in recent years. War with the Seleucid's went very well, some nice gains made. Now though we can see the beginning of the downfall of the Roman Empire in your game; bothering to conquer the Picts can bring nothing but woe!
In terms of futility, this might be on par with Sisyphus pushing that rock up the mountain.
Good war against the Seleucids, but wouldn't it have made more sense to try to connect your Syrian possessions with your Anatolian ones, instead of expanding into Armenia? I don't know the map well enough, but I'd wager that there's only one Mediterranean province separating your Levantine holdings from Asia Minor - Antioch?
well we have yet to see how the Picts respond to this infusion of culture. My suspicion is the effete east coast picts with their strange gods of hibs and hearts and, shudder, parliaments ... may quite like the experience, perchance even looking for some form of Union in due time. The more robust, yet regrettably seldom sober, west coast ones may find the whole thing a bit of a stramash ... we shall see.
Problem with Antioch is its the Seleucid capital, so I won't get it to the end, which is why I'd like to see the perfidious (& backward shooting) Parthians do one on the Seleucids so I have a chance to reduce them to a single province before much too long. Unfortunately the PPs have yet to actually co-operate in this task.
teasing is over.
the event in the next post, which is admittedly short, had me looking at the screen wondering if I was playing CK1 by mistake.
as to woe, later on trying to conquer Birmingham proves to be a huge mistake ... a finding validated down the ages by generations of visitors.
September-October 701 AUC
Lentulus’ accession to the consulship in September 701 appeared to confirm the demise of the Populist faction.
Piso’s personal unpopularity outside his own group, his mistakes over the Syrian war and the imprisonment or exile of many of his supporters indicated that the Republic had ridden out the domestic storm of recent years. In effect Lentulus represented not just a victory for the Military faction but also a victory for the traditional oligarchy that had ruled the Republic.
Lentulus’ popularity was confirmed when the chief Augur was able to announce the recent omens were highly favourable.
However, just over a month after his accession, Lentulus was found dead in the garden of his villa just outside Rome.
The Senate was convulsed as rumours spread.
One possibility was that the Seleucids had this time found a competent assassin who had managed to escape detection. Anyone with a beard and a Syrian accent was detained, some merchants were beaten up and robbed as the mob enacted their own form of revenge.
Naturally others suspected a more domestic source.
Lentulus’ house slaves were tortured [1] but were able to add little to what was known. Lentulus had come home late, asked for wine, ordered most of the slaves to bed and gone to sit in the garden despite the chill of late autumn. The wine had been tested and no poison had been found nor was there any sign of violence on his body.
Already disrupted by the uncertainty and threatened by a mob that treated each twist in the tale as a reason to attack a new target, the Senate, briefly, forgot about its internal politics and the need to secure a new Consul.
This vacuum was filled by, of all people Gaius Piso. Meeting in a mostly empty Senate house, he was proclaimed Consul.
Incompetent, widely derided, leading a faction that was marginalised, he now held supreme power in the Republic. At least Octavius had had the advantages of a legitimate election and general acceptance of the value of his services to the state. Piso was seen as a fool, he was now in charge.
[1] Under Roman law, the word of a slave was only valid in law if the confession had been extracted under torture.
Lentulus’ accession to the consulship in September 701 appeared to confirm the demise of the Populist faction.
Piso’s personal unpopularity outside his own group, his mistakes over the Syrian war and the imprisonment or exile of many of his supporters indicated that the Republic had ridden out the domestic storm of recent years. In effect Lentulus represented not just a victory for the Military faction but also a victory for the traditional oligarchy that had ruled the Republic.
Lentulus’ popularity was confirmed when the chief Augur was able to announce the recent omens were highly favourable.
However, just over a month after his accession, Lentulus was found dead in the garden of his villa just outside Rome.
The Senate was convulsed as rumours spread.
One possibility was that the Seleucids had this time found a competent assassin who had managed to escape detection. Anyone with a beard and a Syrian accent was detained, some merchants were beaten up and robbed as the mob enacted their own form of revenge.
Naturally others suspected a more domestic source.
Lentulus’ house slaves were tortured [1] but were able to add little to what was known. Lentulus had come home late, asked for wine, ordered most of the slaves to bed and gone to sit in the garden despite the chill of late autumn. The wine had been tested and no poison had been found nor was there any sign of violence on his body.
Already disrupted by the uncertainty and threatened by a mob that treated each twist in the tale as a reason to attack a new target, the Senate, briefly, forgot about its internal politics and the need to secure a new Consul.
This vacuum was filled by, of all people Gaius Piso. Meeting in a mostly empty Senate house, he was proclaimed Consul.
Incompetent, widely derided, leading a faction that was marginalised, he now held supreme power in the Republic. At least Octavius had had the advantages of a legitimate election and general acceptance of the value of his services to the state. Piso was seen as a fool, he was now in charge.
[1] Under Roman law, the word of a slave was only valid in law if the confession had been extracted under torture.
What the...? I see what you mean now about CK1 madness, Lentulus' sudden passing (a competent assassin? hah!) and then Piso's inexplicable rise to Consulship. How did he gain power? I have to confess I never played a great deal of EU:Rome but, again, how? Remarkable stuff. Well, Piso's term as Consul certainly promises to be interesting one anyway.
To be fair, the next consul was going to be picked from the Civic faction, which has 5 supporters, so that instead someone from the single largest block was picked should perhaps not come as a total surprise. That said, Piso is certainly a fool (but perhaps substitute a 't' for the 'f', for a more accurate description). I do like the description of his ascension: I'm so used to seeing a glib statement about one of the barely-acceptable attributes, that it's quite refreshing to see a curt "We're cursed!!" instead.
So if I read this right, then all that's needed to subjugate Scotland is to ply the Easterners with the trappings of a representative body, whilst plying the Westerners with enough spirits to keep them in a constant stupor, thus ensuring that they'll direct their aggression inwards (or at their eastern brethren). Good God, what took England so long, then? Must've been Mel Gibson's inspirational leadership.
Anyway, the Populists are back in charge, albeit it with a leader who's less likely to pass the 'complex form of life' test than a moldy potato... This should prove to make for an 'interesting' Consulate.
So if I read this right, then all that's needed to subjugate Scotland is to ply the Easterners with the trappings of a representative body, whilst plying the Westerners with enough spirits to keep them in a constant stupor, thus ensuring that they'll direct their aggression inwards (or at their eastern brethren). Good God, what took England so long, then? Must've been Mel Gibson's inspirational leadership.
Anyway, the Populists are back in charge, albeit it with a leader who's less likely to pass the 'complex form of life' test than a moldy potato... This should prove to make for an 'interesting' Consulate.
Really? That is a horrible ruler for any standard: besides his stats, he is a Populist ( with the random change of NI and all that jazz ), for heavens sake ... this is the kind of ruler that makes those 3/3/3 EU III rulers look not so bad at all
Let's just hope that he forgets to breathe for some minutes ( with his stats he probably has a slave to remember him of inhale ) to give place for ... anything better. Really, even another populist would suffice
Let's just hope that he forgets to breathe for some minutes ( with his stats he probably has a slave to remember him of inhale
) to give place for ... anything better. Really, even another populist would suffice