The Prussian empire needs YOU.

[Chelomo]

So I've been having fun with a Brandenburg turned Prussia game lately, and I've been doing pretty well. I'll admit to my undying shame that I save-scummed a bit in the beginning, but I'm now rolling with the punches. However, I've been running into a few problems. Here are two screenshots to help you understand the situation:

The world:



Europe:



I am currently the head of a pretty powerful alliance composed of France, Hungary, Cologne, myself and a few vassals. On the other hand, Austria is heading a similar coalition which includes themselves, Naples, Poland and Lithuania (Which are pretty much irrelevant at this point) and worst of all, Portugal.

Now why is Portugal so nasty? Well they have, to themselves, as many troops as the rest of the Austrian coalition. This is because they inherited Castille and all their humongous colonies on the random new world. Austria isn't too bad themselves, they're slightly ahead in mil tech, but I could probably beat them 1 on 1. Thus far, I have been trying to contain Austria which blobbed really hard early, so all my allies are around them, and we're kind of in a stand-off, because Portugal ruins any war I try to start with the Austrians with massive waves of men and a giant armada. I've managed to score a few symbolic victories where I had Austria give up a few vassals before they got the Portuguese alliance, but now I'm locked in place, and this is why I ask for your input on which direction I should take.

Some relevant information:

-I am currently the emperor of the HRE, and am slowly working my way up the reforms (which is why I want to weaken this uber alliance before I get to revoke the privilegiia). I have a pretty solid control on the electors, with the support of 4.

-I am protestant. So is the entire HRE except like 2-3 randoms. (lol)

-My soldiers are probably worth 1.5 soldiers from any other nation, because Prussians lol. However, my manpower pool stands at 80k, enough to replenish my armies fully, once. I also have excellent generals, including one with 6 pips in both shock and fire.

-My coalition: About 200-250k soldiers.

-Austrian coalition (sans Portugal): About 180-200k soldiers.

-Portugal: 170-180k soldiers.

Fire away gents!

EDIT: Oh, before someone suggests allying with the Ottomans, they have the maximum Great Powers allies, and so do I. Same thing for UK, though UK is pretty pathetic this game.

 

[balmung60]

Hmm... what ideas do you and Portugal have?

Also, which, if any, nations are lucky?

EDIT: As for the Portuguese fleet, the logical answer would be to put everything into galleys and plug the entrance to the Baltic. Also, if you can beat them, try to get your alliance to put everything into beating Portugal and force them to release nations. If you can kick Spain out of them, that ought to put a decent dent in their manpower and tax bases.

EDIT EDIT: Is there any way you could ditch the weakest of your "great power" allies and grab Russia as an ally (especially if they're westernized)? That would certainly tip the balance of manpower in your favor.

 

[Jorous]

I would go for Poland or Lithuania. Who are there allies besides austria? They seem big enough to still remain war leader. Are they all allied to each other? What allies does Portugal have exactly?

 

[Chelomo]

I have Offensive (Full), Trade (Full), Exploration (bad choice, thought I might get a chunk of the new continent), Quality (almost done) and Economic (just started). I'm aware my ideas are not optimal. (I also have completed Prussian ambitions, but at this stage almost every European nation has them.)

Portugal has Exploration, Offensive, Trade, Religious and economic.

As far as Lucky nations goes, I went with the default settings and the earliest start, so I'm assuming UK, Austria, Portugal (?, dunno if it got inherited along with Castille), Russia and Ottomans are the relevant ones.

 

[Chelomo]

So if I declare on Poland, they drag Austria in, would Austria be able to call on Portugal, or could I stagger my truces like that?

Yes, Poland and Lithuania are allied, but the personal union is no longer in effect.

Portugal is only allied with Austria, and I was able to win a war against them when Austria was busy elsewhere (with the help of French troops of course). However this does not seem to have happened in a while.

 

[balmung60]

I have Offensive (Full), Trade (Full), Exploration (bad choice, thought I might get a chunk of the new continent), Quality (almost done) and Economic (just started). I'm aware my ideas are not optimal. (I also have completed Prussian ambitions, but at this stage almost every European nation has them.)

Portugal has Exploration, Offensive, Trade, Religious and economic.

As far as Lucky nations goes, I went with the default settings and the earliest start, so I'm assuming UK, Austria, Portugal (?, dunno if it got inherited along with Castille), Russia and Ottomans are the relevant ones.

Well, with those ideas, your troops ought to be worth more than 1.5 puny Portuguese peasants, especially with a 6/6/x/x general and once you complete Quality Ideas. And as bad of a choice as Exploration prove to be, I'm pretty sure Economic is worse. Administrative would get you +6% discipline via the Militia Act and help offset your manpower shortage with more and cheaper mercenaries.

Default lucky nations are Portugal, Castile/Spain, Muscovy/Russia, England/Great Britain, Austria, France, Ottomans, and Sweden. With Castile/Spain gone and Prussia controlled by you, the only remaining "historical" lucky nations are the Netherlands (which, unless that orange smudge is them, doesn't seem to exist), followed by the PLC, which isn't formed. If neither of those exist, then the eighth lucky nation should be determined via the random lucky nations algorithm. You can check if a nation is lucky by selecting one of its provinces and seeing its defense, as lucky nations get +10% fort defense, which is listed

 

[balmung60]

So if I declare on Poland, they drag Austria in, would Austria be able to call on Portugal, or could I stagger my truces like that?

Yes, Poland and Lithuania are allied, but the personal union is no longer in effect.

Portugal is only allied with Austria, and I was able to win a war against them when Austria was busy elsewhere (with the help of French troops of course). However this does not seem to have happened in a while.

Only if Austria becomes war leader. If Poland remains war leader, Portugal will not be called in. if you can stagger your truces, you can alternately weaken Austria and her allies and chip away at Portugal via forcing them to release nations.

 

[Chelomo]

I took economic because I was hurting for cash, mostly, but yeah, I didn't realize administrative would give me the militia act. I still have 130% discipline, and I'll get 15% more with the end of quality. Also, I'm kind of roleplaying as a Frederickian Prussia, so I don't intend to take defensive, because Prussians always attack .

I guess I could stockpile cash and raise a massive mercenary army? The main problem is that I get swamped by huge stacks one after the other if I fight both Austria and Portugal, where I will win individual battles, but never be able to push my advantage because of depleted morale/manpower. And yeah, the shitty orange smudge is the Netherlands.

 

[balmung60]

I took economic because I was hurting for cash, mostly, but yeah, I didn't realize administrative would give me the militia act. I still have 130% discipline, and I'll get 15% more with the end of quality. Also, I'm kind of roleplaying as a Frederickian Prussia, so I don't intend to take defensive, because Prussians always attack .

I guess I could stockpile cash and raise a massive mercenary army? The main problem is that I get swamped by huge stacks one after the other if I fight both Austria and Portugal, where I will win individual battles, but never be able to push my advantage because of depleted morale/manpower. And yeah, the shitty orange smudge is the Netherlands.

Administrative also gets you more cash via increased production efficiency.

And that Orange smudge is the last lucky nation, in that case.

Have you tried forcing Portugal to terminate the alliance with Austria in a peace deal? It only costs 10% WS to force them to annul all treaties between each other. Of course, there's always the possibility that they'll do something really mean if you do that, like ally Russia.

Which brings me to a previous suggestion: consider ditching France or Hungary (is Hungary a great power?) and pursuing an alliance with Russia. For some reason, I imagine that that Russia has more manpower than the entire Austrian League put together.

What are you planning to do for your fifth idea group when that comes around?

 

[Chelomo]

Yeah, I got Portugal to end the alliance when I first won against them, but as the emperor I got called in a few other wars, which I wasn't too sore about because I needed Imperial authority, and wasn't able to take advantage of the opportunity.

Russia really hates me though, they rivalled me and we're at -170 or so relations. They also seem fairly isolationist and seem to be doing their thing. I don't think Hungary is a great power, though I do have a sentimental attachment to them, they stood by my side in EVERY war I fought haha, since the start of the game. How many great power allies can you have before you get the penalty? Also, Russia is allied with France and Poland (Just noticed), so declaring on Poland would mean war with Russia. I can take them, but not at the same time as Austria, again.

It would be my sixth idea group, and I was thinking about going either Innovative, Admin or Quantity. Probably Quantity since I would already be working on Economic as far as admin points go.

 

[balmung60]

Yeah, I got Portugal to end the alliance when I first won against them, but as the emperor I got called in a few other wars, which I wasn't too sore about because I needed Imperial authority, and wasn't able to take advantage of the opportunity.

Russia really hates me though, they rivalled me and we're at -170 or so relations. They also seem fairly isolationist and seem to be doing their thing. I don't think Hungary is a great power, though I do have a sentimental attachment to them, they stood by my side in EVERY war I fought haha, since the start of the game. How many great power allies can you have before you get the penalty? Also, Russia is allied with France and Poland (Just noticed), so declaring on Poland would mean war with Russia. I can take them, but not at the same time as Austria, again.

It would be my sixth idea group, and I was thinking about going either Innovative, Admin or Quantity. Probably Quantity since I would already be working on Economic as far as admin points go.

Well, ignore Russia, I guess.

Quantity is pretty worthless, and I see several cheap and easy (looking) reserves of manpower all around you. Lithuania, Denmark, and that diminished looking Sweden. Alternatively, if you can deal with the distant overseas penalties, consider kicking Algiers around and stealing some of their land. Take a chunk with other cores if you can and start vassal feeding. Easier, but less vassal-feedy, Mali is right there and a soft target, unless they're a protectorate. Or just start colonizing what's left of Africa. Even after the distant overseas penalty, you ought to get a little manpower out of that. OR, if you can beat them, you might be able to take a big bite out of Russia (with their size, provinces should have a really low war score cost). And I see vassal-feeding opportunities is Asia, too (in particular, that Khorasan). You might have to go a bit out of your way to get a CB or just declare without one, though.

For many of these alternative methods of getting manpower, Administrative would be helpful. Innovative could also be nice due to the extra leader, cheaper tech, an reduced tradition decay.

Depending on how troublesome the Portuguese fleet is, you might also consider Naval, which would also let you, if you can get the trade power in the Baltic, Confirm Thalassocracy for some sweet bonuses.

 

[Topsy Cret]

Would war with Naples make Austria war leader? If not, then go ahead and get both Naples and Austria to release nations - maybe you can even gain territories in Italy to start boxing in the Austrians, which would have the added bonus of diverting Portuguese forces for the next war you have with them.

 

[Conch]

Dont fear Portugal. You are Prussia, you have the best soldiers in the world. Just DOW them. Once Austria joins the war, go and wipe their stacks immediately. Then do the same with Poland and Lithuania. When youve done this, wait for the Portuguese to come for you, and beat them. They will try to flee to some Austrian provinces. Make sure you have another stack near the Austrian border, go and wipe the Portuguese stacks. Then only Naples should be left, but they wont have a significant army, so go and carpet siege Austrian provinces. Try to white peace out the other enemies as possible, especially Portugal and Naples. You wont be able to takte these out of the war quick by carpet sieging, so try to get them out of the war via diplomacy.

Most important thing: Destroy your enemies armies, before they can unite under one banner.

And btw. you should take Scandinavia for you. Watch out for a chance to PU some of them if possible, should be the easiest way.

 

[kemazon]

That is some nice campaign you got going.

The best is when the game becomes a bit of a thought process and fun challenge.

For the Prussy lovers out there:

Absolute Monarchy: +10% discipline

Advisor Commandant: +5% discipline

Diplomacy: Because +2 relations, random +50 diplo points and you need something to start with your traditions quick
Quality: Self explanatory
Admin: You gonna love that extra +6% disci plus cheap as chips mercs
Offensive: Well, you REALLY gonna love that 166% discipline

Plus if you get one of those random events of School armies confronting each other, go for the extra +5% dis, totallying you at 171% discipline

1 of your soldiers equals to 4.7 of Portuguese peasants


PRUSSY POWER !!!!!

 

[Great One]

Keep an eye on Austria's allies. If they take over war leader, they will call in more friends. This happened in my current Teutonic Order game and it wasn't a good outcome for me. I attacked Mainz (OPM) who called 2 OPM HRE, Denmark, and Austria who became war leader and called more HRE friends and Russia into the war. Needless to say, my Teutonic Order allied to Netherlands and Hungary (who declined to join at any rate) and with perhaps 3 small vassals did not stand a chance!

...and my Teutonic Order was about 50% larger than your Prussia having taken all of Poland, Lithuania, the Baltic States (Riga and Linovian Order at start), and connecting down to the Black Sea.

 

[Chelomo]

Thanks for all the replies, tbh I mostly posted this to see what you guys would come up with, rather than out of real need for help, but I learned quite a few tidbits which will help me out a lot in future games!

Conch: Right now my armies are not good enough to execute that strategy, the Austrians have pretty decent troops. It's true Portugal troops are awful, but they have so many of them haha. Also Portugal mobilizes troops with great alacrity when they are destroyed, I have to say.

It seems the general consensus is that that I need to be bigger, so I think I'll eat up Poland Lithuania, and screw the ruskies if they come to their aid, since as far as I know, they are not Westernized.

I think with about 120k soldiers I should be fine to execute kemazon's strategy, but right now I have 70k, which is wholly insufficient.

Expanding into Scandinavia was an idea I hadn't considered, since I was going for a fairly historical campaign, but it might be a good idea. Either way, if I manage to preserve the HRE as is, I should be able to become a monster once I revoke the Privilegiia and create Germany, at which point the game will be pretty much over.

 

[balmung60]

Thanks for all the replies, tbh I mostly posted this to see what you guys would come up with, rather than out of real need for help, but I learned quite a few tidbits which will help me out a lot in future games!

Conch: Right now my armies are not good enough to execute that strategy, the Austrians have pretty decent troops. It's true Portugal troops are awful, but they have so many of them haha. Also Portugal mobilizes troops with great alacrity when they are destroyed, I have to say.

It seems the general consensus is that that I need to be bigger, so I think I'll eat up Poland Lithuania, and screw the ruskies if they come to their aid, since as far as I know, they are not Westernized.

I think with about 120k soldiers I should be fine to execute kemazon's strategy, but right now I have 70k, which is wholly insufficient.

Expanding into Scandinavia was an idea I hadn't considered, since I was going for a fairly historical campaign, but it might be a good idea. Either way, if I manage to preserve the HRE as is, I should be able to become a monster once I revoke the Privilegiia and create Germany, at which point the game will be pretty much over.

You actually might not want to create Germany or pass Renovatio Imperii as both will prevent you from getting any more DHEs, unless you really want that cultural union. That said, I don't remember if Prussia gets any particularly good DHEs and it's definitely not as debilitating as forming Scandinavia is for Sweden (at least before the military reforms of Gustavus Adolphus).

And as I recall, Austrian troops shouldn't be much (if any) better than their Portuguese counterparts.

And as a bonus of expanding, you'll get to add land to the HRE, thus giving easy IA.

 

[Chelomo]

Well it's already 1630, and I'm at Gemeiner Pfenig, so before I pass Renovatio is going to be a while. I might not do it though, who knows. Austria has full defensive and offensive, so they aren't too shabby. Their generals are also alright, mostly because Army tradition is very high across Europe, constant wars and all that.

Yeah, expanding is definitely better. But my Prussia looked so good and almost historical Oh well haha.

I checked the DHEs for Prussia, and they don't seem really good. The only really good one seems to be The Enlightened Reforms of Frederick the Great, which gives a choice between +1 Stab, -25% Idea Costs and -1 Stab with -25% tech cost.

Also, I'm having trouble as far as money goes. I have enough to keep my army at force limits and hire lvl 1 advisors across the board, but I can't seem to get enough dough for level 2 or level 3 ones, especially since I'd like to keep some income to build stuff.

 

[balmung60]

Well it's already 1630, and I'm at Gemeiner Pfenig, so before I pass Renovatio is going to be a while. I might not do it though, who knows. Austria has full defensive and offensive, so they aren't too shabby. Their generals are also alright, mostly because Army tradition is very high across Europe, constant wars and all that.

Yeah, expanding is definitely better. But my Prussia looked so good and almost historical Oh well haha.

I checked the DHEs for Prussia, and they don't seem really good. The only really good one seems to be The Enlightened Reforms of Frederick the Great, which gives a choice between +1 Stab, -25% Idea Costs and -1 Stab with -25% tech cost.

Also, I'm having trouble as far as money goes. I have enough to keep my army at force limits and hire lvl 1 advisors across the board, but I can't seem to get enough dough for level 2 or level 3 ones, especially since I'd like to keep some income to build stuff.

Their generals are also alright because they have +1/1/0/0 due to being a lucky nation.

And so what if expanding is ahistorical, that super Portugal is, too.

Well, Innovative will help with advisor costs and mercenary costs, Administrative makes mercs cheaper and gives you more production income, and Quantity just makes your army a bit cheaper. But being bigger also means more taxes and more production and more trade and more manpower, anyway.

How well set up are your merchants? Since you have Trade Ideas, you might as well put them to work funneling money to your capital.

 

[Chelomo]

Ah, I didn't know lucky also gave general bonuses, that makes sense, thanks!

I know, I know, but I always try to play my games with a certain theme in mind haha, but at this point, let's just jumpstart the partition of the Commonwealth by a century

I'll go Admin then, it makes a lot of sense.

I have merchants funnelling trade downstream to Lubeck, where my capital is, and get a good income from there, but I have a lot of trouble competing with the Hansa (though I sometime manage to snag their trade power in wars). My merchants are also not funnelling that much wealth into Lübeck, but I assume once I get a good grip on the Baltic, it'll go better. Imma play a bit tonight and give some feedback