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Demetrios

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Havard said:
Well, in 1066 they should at least be closely tied to Norway. I am a bit uncertain about the status of The Isles and Man though, as they appears to have been closer tied to the Norse-Irish rulers in Dublin...

My research has the Kings of Man as vassals of Norway until 1079, when a member of the ruling house of Dublin came to the throne. Of course the kingdom became closely tied to Norway again from 1098 to 1103 when Norwegian forces occupied the island...
 

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That's right. Man and the Isles spend most of the late C11 answerable to no-one but themselves, and remain that way until the Norwegians come to snuff out their life.
 

STGeorge

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Demetrios said:
My research has the Kings of Man as vassals of Norway until 1079, when a member of the ruling house of Dublin came to the throne. Of course the kingdom became closely tied to Norway again from 1098 to 1103 when Norwegian forces occupied the island...

I found this, it may be of interest;

Occupied by Vikings in the 9th cent., the island was a dependency of Norway until 1266 when it passed to Scotland. From the 14th to the 18th cent. (except for brief periods when it reverted to the English crown) it belonged to the earls of Salisbury and of Derby.
 

unmerged(11206)

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Fawr said:
I would like to see the Marches split into

Cheshire (Chester)
Gloucestershire (Gloucester)
Shropshire (Shrewsbury)
Herefordshire (Hereford) - maybe combine with Glou/Salop
Pembroke (Pembroke/Carmarthen)

Cheshire was so important I wouldn't combine it with Shropshire. For the early part of the period (until just before 1300) the Marches were a significant power base. The greatest lords mostly came from the marches (Rupert fitzHenry (Glou) (brother to Maude), Both regents for Henry III (Chester/Pembroke), The regent for Edward III(Glou), ...). One of the sources for their power was the need for armed men to be ready to act at short notice, and the other was the fact that the lords on this border extended their influence beyond what their Kings anticipated.

Well, you could easily combine Gloucestershire with Worcestershire since 1) The Diocese of Worcester consisted of both shires, and 2) Except for a brief period during the Anarchy (which Henry II refused to recognize), Worcester didn't have an Earl of its own until the very end of the game. Gloucester however remained an important Earldom from 1122 on, whose Earls also held the Lordship of Glamorgan in Wales (making them powerful on both sides of the March).

Also, if you're going to combine Herefordshire with another shire, it should be Shropshire. Again, the Bishopric of Hereford included Shropshire, and after the fall of the Montgomerys (1102), Shropshire was a "royal" shire with no Earl of its own. Hereford, however, continued as an Earldom even after the fall of FitzOsbern's family (de Pitres, de Bohun, etc.)

Cheshire, on the other hand, was part of the "West Mercian" diocese of Coventry-Lichfield-Chester; also, like its Bishops, its Earls held alot of land in Staffordshire and further into "Mercia", so its harder to justify combining it with other marcher shires.

So above would give you: Gloucester & Worcester in the south (1 Earl, 1 Bishop), Hereford & Shrewsbury in the center (1 Earl, 1 Bishop), and Chester in the north (1 Earl, 1 "Shared" Bishop).

As for Pembrokeshire, I'm not sure. Unlike the other Marcher shires, which had always been part of England, Pembroke was originally the Welsh Dyfed under the Princes of Deheubarth; so technically, it was within Wales proper, as was its Diocese of St. Davids. Its Earls were also Lords of Gwent in Wales (hence the name "Strongbow"). So it seems more like a "Welsh" Earldom & Lordship that was just ruled by Anglo-Normans (who however so frequently intermarried with the Welsh that many historians call them "Cambro-Normans").
 
Last edited:

VenetianPriest

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We now know there are 30 English provinces

12 Irish

7 Welsh

and >9 Scottish provinces in the game. Not sure if Isle of Man should be included. Hopefully we'll see more of Scotland soon.

Better yet, let's see the Orkneys and the Shetland Islands, or maybe the Phaeros. I'm not sure if they're all in or not. I'm guessing they won't since there is no such islands in EU2, but if they are it'll be great to amass a North Sea Empire. :)
 

Martinus

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VenetianPriest said:
We now know there are 30 English provinces

12 Irish

7 Welsh

and >9 Scottish provinces in the game. Not sure if Isle of Man should be included. Hopefully we'll see more of Scotland soon.

Better yet, let's see the Orkneys and the Shetland Islands, or maybe the Phaeros. I'm not sure if they're all in or not. I'm guessing they won't since there is no such islands in EU2, but if they are it'll be great to amass a North Sea Empire. :)
It's a bit too late for changes now, I'd reckon. ;)
 

Earl Uhtred

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I'm quite impressed with the final cut, so to speak. I can see a Dark Age mod taking shape before my eyes. 'Leicester' should be 'Nottingham', I'm not sure why Lancaster hooks all the way round the side of Chester, Oxford's on the wrong side of the Thames and whatever's behind Northumberland's shield looks far too short to be the word 'Northumberland' but these are vair' minor issues. I love the way there's a separate Durham and not one but TWO Scottish border provinces.

I hope at least the Orkneys are in, that and a province for the Hebrides, or the Sudreyjar really won't work.
 
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Havard said:
Orkneys are in, Hebrides are in... and Man :)

What was decided on for the Moray/Grampians region?
Wish I'd descovered this forum when the post was first made, I would have suggested each of the territories of the 10 Scotish Contenders. (Out of the 12), even if I can only name three of them :D
 

dtroiani

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I just love the idea there are so many provinces. This is great...
 

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Pwyll said:
Just reading Lion in Winter...great AAR...saw the Welsh flag.....shouted out a couple of obscenities and shook my head...

Fear not - it should be an easy mod to get rid of the Tudor green on the background and go for a straight red (or golden) dragon motif, which I think should be suitable for Gwynedd...