The province maximum number and map pixel size (for MichaelM)

  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

This thread is more than 5 months old.

It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose. If you feel it is necessary to make a new reply, you can still do so though.

Andrei Gijgorev

Civilian
3 Badges
May 23, 2007
686
64
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Darkest Hour
  • For The Glory
Just wondering, if I start working on a new map, do the dimensions have to be 18944:7296 or can they be slightly larger, e.g. 29952:11520?

Also, is the province/region limit still there? Is there a maximum for the total provinces on the map?

I'm asking because I know that at some point it was planned to allow for larger maps, but I have zero idea whether any of that has actually been implemented.
 

Therion

Field Marshal
21 Badges
Sep 7, 2006
2.631
75
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
The dimensions have to be exactly 18944:7296.

The region limit is still there (256 provinces per region including overlapping areas). The global province limit was raised to something like 10,000 in FTG 1.3 however it is still restricted by the map editor (Magellan) to the usual 2020.
 

Andrei Gijgorev

Civilian
3 Badges
May 23, 2007
686
64
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Darkest Hour
  • For The Glory
I'm not entirely sure I understand those regions correctly.

The way I've seen it described is that each region has a grid size of 2048*2048 pixels. However, each region also overlaps each adjacent region by 256 pixels, resulting in a total size of 2560*2560. This means that the exclusive size of each region (where it isn't overlapped by any other region) is only 1536*1536. Between these exclusive regions are overlaps of 512 pixels width/height.

If this is correct, and the total map size is 18944*7296 pixels, then it looks like this (at 16:1 scale and with a 256*256 grid):

Piy4mOO.png


Now there's a couple of things that I find weird. Vertically, the map doesn't fill the 4th row of regions, and in fact 7296 isn't even a multiple of 256. Horizontally, since the first region wraps around the map edges, it fits perfectly if the last and first region columns don't overlap. In this case there are 9 columns of regions, for a total of 36. If there is a 10th column however (40 total), then this 10th column wraps around the map and overlaps the 1st column completely (that is, up to 1792 pixels where the overlap from the 2nd column starts).

So, a couple of questions:
  • Are there 9 columns or 10?
  • Can the vertical region alignment be inverted, so that the first row starts at -1152 pixels rather than at -256?
  • Can the map size at least be increased to 20480*8192, with 10*4 regions extending 256 pixels beyond the map borders on all sides?
Regardless, it seems that 2020 total provinces is a bigger concern than the limit of 256 provinces per region. I'll have a look at the Magellan tool later to see if I can do anything with the binaries. Also, HoI2/DH has a similar map format but the E3 map has way more provinces than the vanilla map; maybe the tool that was used to create that map can be used for FtG as well? I think it's Jamie's MapUtility which "allows you to edit the maps of HoI, Victoria, and CK" — maybe it can be used for EU2/FtG as well.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that the DH devs originally had the region limit problem as well and then rewrote parts of the map related code to get rid of regions completely. Since HoI2 and EU2 are pretty similar, perhaps their code could be used in FtG? You reading this, MichaelM?
 
Last edited:

Therion

Field Marshal
21 Badges
Sep 7, 2006
2.631
75
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
IIRC, the bottom row and rightmost column are smaller than the rest. I don't remember the exact details and don't have the files on this PC but you can easily grasp the region layout if you run Magellan's mview tool.

I think the global limit is not that of a concern for a map with those dimensions. More provinces would require a larger map if one is to avoid very small provinces that are hard to click and unable to properly display the graphical information pertaining to the province.

On the other hand, the region limit can be quite problematic in Europe. That is the reason MyMap moved Europe to the leftmost extremity of the map.

In my opinion, the most efficient projection to date is the one used by Kasperus in WATK 4. It plays around the overlapping regions and manages to fit in a lot of provinces in Europe without having to move it to the edges of the map. Of course some of those provinces are hardly clickable — that is why increasing the global/region limits is not really useful unless the map is enlarged as well.
 

Andrei Gijgorev

Civilian
3 Badges
May 23, 2007
686
64
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Darkest Hour
  • For The Glory
I had another look at MView and it turns out that MView doesn't show regions properly unless you're zoomed in, and that there's a glitch with regions across the map borders.

However, MStats was more helpful. Apparently there are 10 columns of regions, and the last one does overlap the first completely. All the other regions are normal. So no regions would need to be added to increase the map size to 20480*8192, which would already be an improvement since you could add more North latitude, moving Europe southwards and resulting in fewer issues with region limits there.

On another note, I found the Magellan sourcecode on GitHub. I tried increasing the province limit but parts were missing so I couldn't compile. (I could compile MColors but that's of no use.) I contacted Inferis via twitter about increasing the province limit; maybe something will come of that.

I think the global limit is not that of a concern for a map with those dimensions. More provinces would require a larger map if one is to avoid very small provinces that are hard to click and unable to properly display the graphical information pertaining to the province.
Honestly I'm about fine with the numbers of provinces in Europe in Watkabaoi. I'd maybe add a few and remove some others. However, I definitely want to add provinces to other parts of the world. In particular, I don't like PTI very much.

On the other hand, the region limit can be quite problematic in Europe. That is the reason MyMap moved Europe to the leftmost extremity of the map.
I don't think that's got anything to do with it. For one, all of Europe in MyMap is east of 2048 pixels. Also, since the last and first columns overlap, having Europe near the map border is exactly what you should not do, since there's essentially one large region from -768 to 2304 (width of 3072 rather than 2560 pixels).


Edit for future reference:

aWB348E.png


I still don't understand what the point of those regions is. I thought it might be so that the game only ever needs to render one region on screen, but the parts where four adjacent regions overlap are only 512*512 pixels in size, so even in 1024x768 the game needs to render 4 regions simultaneously at times. And if you render 4 regions anyway, what's the point of overlapping them at all? Just seems weird.
 
Last edited:

Therion

Field Marshal
21 Badges
Sep 7, 2006
2.631
75
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
I don't think that's got anything to do with it. For one, all of Europe in MyMap is east of 2048 pixels. Also, since the last and first columns overlap, having Europe near the map border is exactly what you should not do, since there's essentially one large region from -768 to 2304 (width of 3072 rather than 2560 pixels).
I think the reason may have been to enlarge Europe as much as possible and make Europe's central overlapping region coincide with Germany/Italy (as opposed to vanilla's Balkans/Hungary which is much less efficient). You could leave Europe in the centre and achieve the same result (by shifting the whole map to the left or right) but then the Americas or the Far East would end up being straddled on both edges of the map (which would be tedious to draw).

I still don't understand what the point of those regions is. I thought it might be so that the game only ever needs to render one region on screen, but the parts where four adjacent regions overlap are only 512*512 pixels in size, so even in 1024x768 the game needs to render 4 regions simultaneously at times. And if you render 4 regions anyway, what's the point of overlapping them at all? Just seems weird.
Yeah, beats me as well.