The problem with resettlement micromanagement isn't what people think it is

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Apollon

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People assume that you are supposed to resettle your pops all the time (I used to think that, too), and they're miffed because the poorly designed interface does make sthis task outrageously tedious indeed. And they would be right, because it is tedious and there's no end to it. You have to click back and forth, scroll up and down, expand tiny little windows that keep collapsing when you'd rather have them to stay expanded, and you must keep doing this until you finally quit your campaign out of exasperation.

But here's an unorthodox thought:
We're not actually supposed to resettle so many pops. In fact, we shouldn't even be allowed to. The whole concept is absurd in its exploitability and gamey-ness, not to mention how ridiculously unrealistic it is. For the price of only half a dozen thousand energy credits, we are able to transform a newly-settled colony into a metropolis, or a fully developed homeworld into a ghost town; and it all happens instantly, without the slightest delay, social upheaval or political cost.

For the sake of realism and our sanity, a few changes are needed:
1. Not all pops should be equally eager to allow themselves to be resettled. People love their homes and jobs. They may feel too comfortable where they are, or maybe they feel patriotic attachment to their homeworld. In the real world, it is mostly the dissatisfied who become migrants.
Therefore, if you resettle an unemployed pop to a planet where good climate, a job and a home are waiting for them, they should receive a happiness modifier. Conversely, a pop that is being resettled from a gaia planet to a tomb world, should receive a happiness penalty.
2. When you do things to people that they don't like, they can be surprisingly stubborn. For starters, it should be outright impossible for democratic governments to resettle pops from good conditions into worse conditions. And for all other governments, the attempt should be costly. It should cost many times more to resettle a pop to a place that has less than 60% habitability, than to one that has more than 80%. Those breathing masks, vaccinations, environment suits, life support devices and climate control systems don't pay for themselves. Add to that the material incentives for the pops themselves, to make them more pliable.
3. Under certain conditons, a resettlement attempt should have the potential to outright fail. People can resist your attempt to send them into exile. They stay put, and incite their neighbours to do the same. Now you have to send in the army to dislodge them. Better hope your forces are stronger than their resolve. Good luck!
4. Pops shouldn't arrive instantly. The farther away their destination is, the longer they should be in transit.
5. The pops of the receiving planet should also have a word in this. If you settle a lot of xenos in their world, they would become xenophobic, and if they already were xenophobic to begin with, they would potentially turn to violence - either against the migrants or against you, the government.
6. Conversely, automatic migration away from planets with poor living conditions towards better ones should be much more pronounced. Spontaneous mass migrations should be a thing, even if it could potentially topple your own plan of which planets you'd rather see developped at the expense of others.
7. Governors should also take a more active role in maintaining their political interests. Leaders don't like it when you take their underlings away from them and give them to another leader. Resettlement between sectors should be inherently more expensive than intra-sector resettlement, and it should not only cost credits, but also influence (reflecting the political capital you have to expend to make the governor cooperative).
8. There should be a limit to how many pops you can resettle at a given time. You only have so many starships, and they can only carry so many people. The bigger your navy, the more people you can expatri... er... resettle.
 

Nakkivene

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Er, I agree that we shouldn't have to do it at all, but I don't know about your suggestion. All I know I just placed 2 gateway construction sites and have to pause because I have to resettle 70 drones again.
 

wtface

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We need a merchant marine: civilian cargo ships transporting trade, people and resources. Moving people would take time because you wouldn't just have enough spare ships to move 10 billion people in one trip.

Destruction of these ships would also be a logical source for war exhaustion, especially if it results in trade or resources not getting shipped.
 

Limes

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And since population is everything, and the ability to populate your ecumenopolis is a game winner, all of these points 1-8 are impossible without

9. Make population growth dependent on the number of pops already present on the planet. That is, make population growth for biologicals biological. That is, make it exponential. Like so:

Pop growth = Base growth * number of pops on planet
 

magickware99

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People assume that you are supposed to resettle your pops all the time (I used to think that, too), and they're miffed because the poorly designed interface does make sthis task outrageously tedious indeed. And they would be right, because it is tedious and there's no end to it. You have to click back and forth, scroll up and down, expand tiny little windows that keep collapsing when you'd rather have them to stay expanded, and you must keep doing this until you finally quit your campaign out of exasperation.

?

Resettlement is not available to every ethic. Egalitarians don't like resettlement and will develop parties against it, while authoritarians don't mind resettlement.

If I play a hive-mind then it makes perfect sense to move my drones where I need them the most. The same is true if I am playing a religious god-emperor.

Given this, a lot of your suggestions don't make sense. I think they only make sense if you're playing a democratic empire, which doesn't like resettlement to begin with.
 

Merry76

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Sorry, but what you are describing is more or less how the new Master Of Orion handles it. You had to build civilian transport ships (for building points) that then travelled at your current travel speed (improved over time as tech advanced) and where dismantled on landing to give you less incentive to continuously resettle everyone.

Sounds sort of realistic and kind of interesting, right? Problem only it was even less fun than resettling in Stellaris right now, and even more tedious. Imagine that.

The problem isnt that your older planets do not want to give up their unemployed and shelterless. they should really be happy that they can ship them off to somewhere nice, to the point that some of your planets actually lose population if you open up working conditions on a virgin planet with plenty of housing and interesting new jobs. Kind of how it works in the beginning when you colonize 2 planets right at the start -> your home planet practically stops growing (some 0.3 growth until the colonies are properly developed). I wouldnt mind if they went negatively if you overcolonize. Why be a worker in a polluted hive city if you can be a doctor in tropical world?
 

Acheron

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Would it maybe be better if migration was generally handled with the push-and-pull mechanics instead of manual tedium? One could give authoritarians a big fat emigration push on planets with unemployed POPs. In egalitarian societies, you have to convince the people that they will have a better life on the new colony. In authoritarian societies, you explain the people that in the new colonies, they will have a life, unlike here.
 

pryr

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Current system heavily encourage tedious regular resettlement. Your propositions are about making it even more tedious. I think that problem with system that encourage regular resettlement.
 

Livigy

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You could argue the energy credit costs is a direct incentive to pop relocation. This is something current governments actually do. Move to this remote place that lacks qualified people and we will give you money to do so.
 

permeakra

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Would it maybe be better if migration was generally handled with the push-and-pull mechanics instead of manual tedium? One could give authoritarians a big fat emigration push on planets with unemployed POPs. In egalitarian societies, you have to convince the people that they will have a better life on the new colony. In authoritarian societies, you explain the people that in the new colonies, they will have a life, unlike here.
I want "export population growth" planetary decision for gestalts and authoritarians. There is "expel excess population", but it isn't the same.
Egalitarians, apparently have to plan for eventual overcrowding.
 

Zenopath

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i like the pop transport ships idea. just the idea of defencesless ships housing what, 1 million people each flying across my empire at a crawl? 100 credits does seem cheap, maybe add in a few allows to throw the thing together, make the transport ships at a shipyard, and move people around with it. Masters of Orion or Sword of the Stars had something like that i think? But it was automatic, they sort of just tied up your transport fleets, which normally moved food and materials around. Your max number of population you could was based on number of transports you had. In Sword of the Stars you could physically see the transports moving, and attack them too, which was hillarious, attacking big slow defencessless transports.
 

Secret Master

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For the price of only half a dozen thousand energy credits, we are able to transform a newly-settled colony into a metropolis, or a fully developed homeworld into a ghost town; and it all happens instantly, without the slightest delay, social upheaval or political cost.

o_O

When the DLC was first out, I tried to do this.

I quickly learned the hard way that doing this is really a bad idea.

You can move POPs instantly, but you can't build instantly. If you move 75 POPs to a new colony via resettlement (the number needed to unlock most or all building slots), the housing, amenities, and unemployment is so bad that they will either revolt, turn to crime, or just leave on their own.

Not only that, but even just moving 20 POPs to a new colony is enough to really cause problems.

This is one reason it's actually tedious. I can't move 75 POPs to a new colony, but I can move 75 POPs to 25 other planets and be just fine. 3 extra POPs per colony isn't a problem even if its new. So, you end up resettling 500 billion POPs a decade, because you have the planets to soak the population.
 
Last edited:

Acheron

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This is one reason it's actually tedious. I can't move 75 POPs to a new colony, but I can move 75 POPs to 25 other planets and be just fine. 3 extra POPs per colony isn't a problem even if its new. So, you end up resettling 500 billion POPs a decade, because you have the planets to soak the population.
Worse, you have to redo the whole POP transfer again once the new planets have finished constructing enough buildings/districts to absorb more people.
 

LeanneKaos

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You could argue the energy credit costs is a direct incentive to pop relocation. This is something current governments actually do. Move to this remote place that lacks qualified people and we will give you money to do so.

This is kind of what the "Distribute Luxury Goods" decision models with it's +25% immigration pull, though. Only you're paying in consumer goods instead of energy credits.

Actual resettlement I see as being something closer to the Trail of Tears; "incentivized" more by the stick of punishment than by the carrot of reward.
 

Typee

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Would it maybe be better if migration was generally handled with the push-and-pull mechanics instead of manual tedium? One could give authoritarians a big fat emigration push on planets with unemployed POPs. In egalitarian societies, you have to convince the people that they will have a better life on the new colony. In authoritarian societies, you explain the people that in the new colonies, they will have a life, unlike here.
Yes please, the automatic migration thing should simply be immensely faster than it is now and completely replace the manual migration interface.
 

Acheron

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Do I get that right, migration can not result in a POP decline? If so, I would suggest rethinking the issue.

Regarding automated migration, why not simply redo the resettlement policy options? You get "Voluntarily", the only option for egalitarians, everything as it is now, and "Enforced", in the later mode, unemployed POPs (maybe only workers to give a change to downgrade) are forcibly moved to someplace with open job slots.