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cityrailsaints

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A lot of people want biomes if there ever were to be a seasons DLC for SC2. But the thing is- what kind of biomes? Desert? There'll be no rain or snow nor any beaches, which will take the fun out of the seasons DLC. Arctic/Antarctic biome? This is no different to snowfall DLC in SC1. Warm temperate biome? This will eliminate snowfall. Instead of biomes, there should be a one-size-fits-all seasons model for CS2 Seasons DLC, if such a thing were to ever happen


EDIT: Biomes are fine. and I would support it, as long as there is also a default biome which allows you to experience most features
 
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eagletrekkie

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Er, but each Biome would logically have its own weather. A desert city wouldn't get much rain, but a temperate one would get lots of rain. Besides which, it would be real weird to build a city in a tropical area and have it get snow in the winter.
 
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TTJ

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IF there is ever going to be a season cycle, please add an option to deactivate it (like day night cycle today) or better to choose and lock a season of the player's choice!
 
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cityrailsaints

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Er, but each Biome would logically have its own weather. A desert city wouldn't get much rain, but a temperate one would get lots of rain. Besides which, it would be real weird to build a city in a tropical area and have it get snow in the winter.
Which is exactly what the problem is. There should be a standard/default biome which incorporates all weather types and all seasons. If you want to play a desert map for dust storms, there are places which recieve snow and dust storms. Look up "dust storm in snow". I'd upload a picture, but I'm not sure what the forum's copyright rules with regards to uploading someone else's pictures. You have too much snow, and it makes no different to snowfall in SC1, you have too little snow, and it makes it no different to the non-snow maps in SC1, either way, eliminating the need for a full blown seasons DLC as tweaking snowfall DLC would do the job, and if you have just deserts, it takes the fun out of it, as deserts produce only dust storms. If someone's gonna pay good money for a seasons DLC, they may as well be able to take full advantage of it in every city. Realism might be a bit of an issue, but I'm sure there would be ways around it
 
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eagletrekkie

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Which is exactly what the problem is. There should be a standard/default biome which incorporates all weather types and all seasons. If you want to play a desert map for dust storms, there are places which recieve snow and dust storms. Look up "dust storm in snow". I'd upload a picture, but I'm not sure what the forum's copyright rules with regards to uploading someone else's pictures. You have too much snow, and it makes no different to snowfall in SC1, you have too little snow, and it makes it no different to the non-snow maps in SC1, either way, eliminating the need for a full blown seasons DLC as tweaking snowfall DLC would do the job, and if you have just deserts, it takes the fun out of it, as deserts produce only dust storms. If someone's gonna pay good money for a seasons DLC, they may as well be able to take full advantage of it in every city. Realism might be a bit of an issue, but I'm sure there would be ways around it
Yes, I am aware there are plenty of deserts that get snow. The defining characteristic of a desert is not heat, but dryness. If I'm building a city inspired by Las Vegas or Phoenix though, it would be pretty immersion breaking to get snow in the winter.

What I imagine with this, and what I imagine most people imagine with regards to biomes, is something that is already present in CS1. You have each map given a 'theme' that determines the textures of the trees and landscapes, and yes, in CS1 the winter maps are just one of these themes.

For a potential CS2 seasons DLC, this is how I would imagine it working: There is a framework for the seasons that says when during the year it is which season (presumably based on the northern hemisphere, but likely with an option to invert it to represent a city in the southern hemisphere). Then, based on the biome of the map that's being played, it gives appropriate weather, with some biomes getting snow in winter and others not.

So let's look at the themes/biomes already present in CS1 and imagine how they would behave in a hypothetical CS2 with seasons:
Temperate - This would be your default, getting some snow in the winter but not a huge amount.
Boreal - This represents a colder climate and would thus receive significant snow in the winter, with snows probably extending from the fall into the spring.
Tropical - Warmer climate, would not receive any snowfall during the winter. The only desert map in CS1 is categorized here, largely I imagine because palm trees are part of the textures.
European - This one is weird, as it's less of a climate and more a way have the game default to the European style buildings and related. Europe has significant climactic variance, so for a CS2, this would probably go away.
Winter - The snowfall maps, in a CS2 with seasons, this would not be present.

So there are 3 themes/biomes in CS1 that map nicely onto climates. We can pretty easily add a few more on, separating the desert maps from the tropical theme/biome to properly represent that deserts lack precipitation, and possibly split that into 2 - hot desert (no snow) and cold desert (with snow). As map themes are something that can be modded in CS1, this set up would allow modders to create new themes/biomes with unique weather patterns to represent specific areas of the world that don't match up nicely with the default biomes.

Alternatively, if you really don't want to go that route, I can imagine a different modular system. Tropical, Temperate, and Boreal create a rough idea of a 'hot, warm, cold' spectrum. Each map could have a temperature rating, which would influence when and if snowfall occurs, and also a precipitation rating, which determines how often it rains/snows/etc. So, we would have a system where each map would be rated either hot, warm, or cool/cold, and also either wet, moderate, or dry. Under this system, a hot and dry map would be a desert city like Las Vegas or Phoenix, a hot and wet map would be a city in the tropics like Miami, a cold and dry map would be a desert with snow. This approach might be less moddable but still captures a variety of climate and season variations.
 
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cityrailsaints

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Yes, I am aware there are plenty of deserts that get snow. The defining characteristic of a desert is not heat, but dryness. If I'm building a city inspired by Las Vegas or Phoenix though, it would be pretty immersion breaking to get snow in the winter.

What I imagine with this, and what I imagine most people imagine with regards to biomes, is something that is already present in CS1. You have each map given a 'theme' that determines the textures of the trees and landscapes, and yes, in CS1 the winter maps are just one of these themes.

For a potential CS2 seasons DLC, this is how I would imagine it working: There is a framework for the seasons that says when during the year it is which season (presumably based on the northern hemisphere, but likely with an option to invert it to represent a city in the southern hemisphere). Then, based on the biome of the map that's being played, it gives appropriate weather, with some biomes getting snow in winter and others not.

So let's look at the themes/biomes already present in CS1 and imagine how they would behave in a hypothetical CS2 with seasons:
Temperate - This would be your default, getting some snow in the winter but not a huge amount.
Boreal - This represents a colder climate and would thus receive significant snow in the winter, with snows probably extending from the fall into the spring.
Tropical - Warmer climate, would not receive any snowfall during the winter. The only desert map in CS1 is categorized here, largely I imagine because palm trees are part of the textures.
European - This one is weird, as it's less of a climate and more a way have the game default to the European style buildings and related. Europe has significant climactic variance, so for a CS2, this would probably go away.
Winter - The snowfall maps, in a CS2 with seasons, this would not be present.

So there are 3 themes/biomes in CS1 that map nicely onto climates. We can pretty easily add a few more on, separating the desert maps from the tropical theme/biome to properly represent that deserts lack precipitation, and possibly split that into 2 - hot desert (no snow) and cold desert (with snow). As map themes are something that can be modded in CS1, this set up would allow modders to create new themes/biomes with unique weather patterns to represent specific areas of the world that don't match up nicely with the default biomes.

Alternatively, if you really don't want to go that route, I can imagine a different modular system. Tropical, Temperate, and Boreal create a rough idea of a 'hot, warm, cold' spectrum. Each map could have a temperature rating, which would influence when and if snowfall occurs, and also a precipitation rating, which determines how often it rains/snows/etc. So, we would have a system where each map would be rated either hot, warm, or cool/cold, and also either wet, moderate, or dry. Under this system, a hot and dry map would be a desert city like Las Vegas or Phoenix, a hot and wet map would be a city in the tropics like Miami, a cold and dry map would be a desert with snow. This approach might be less moddable but still captures a variety of climate and season variations.
I actually agree with you. fair enough. But maybe instead of different maps to apply to biomes, add biomes to any map (deserts can have rivers, e.g. the Euphraties, Colorado River, etc.)

Also, I'm not saying that there should be snow in the desert, I'm saying that there should be dust storms in snowy areas. This isn't unrealistic- even thought there are no deserts in Europe- there are occasional dust storms in Greece and Italy. Greece and Italy's ski resorts sometimes get Sahara Dust in them. Beijing and Shanghai get occasional dust storms from the Gobi desert, though not actually in the desert. Australia's ski resorts aren't in the desert but will receive the occasional desert. If you want realism, mountains should be colder than sea level, and one side of the mountain should be drier than the other, due to rain shadows. How about instead of different biomes, we have a default, with snowy places that receive the occasional dust storm, and then allow people to play around with that as they wish. I am not saying that there should be snow in the desert, I am saying that there should be dust storms in the snow, which happens in real life.
 

cityrailsaints

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So here would be my idea. Please feel free to comment:

DEFAULT BIOME- This will allow players to build assets from ALL types of climates and all types of seasons. You get snowfall in winter, and warm weather in summer. You get one dust storm every spring. All infrastructure is unlocked, ALL OF IT, but not all challenges are. Rain and snow are features, rather than challanges. Falling leaves are features, rather than challanges. Autumn leaves and evergreens attract tourists and locals. Rivers and lakes are mostly full year-round (unless dry river beds get their own infrastructure, in which case, there should be a mix of wet year round and dry year-round rivers). Tropical infrastructure is also unlocked. Slow moving lakes/rivers can freeze, requiring ice breakers to remain navigable, however, fast moving rivers and the ocean don't freeze. One or two auroras per year

DESERT BIOME- A few dust storms per year, really hot summers, really cold winters. Rain becomes a challange in and of itself when roads flood, the people aren't used to rainfall, there are few undercover places, and people don't know how to drive in rain. Small rivers are mostly dry and roads and camp sights can be built around dry river beds. The river will have water in it once or twice a year, which will wash out camp sights and split roads in half (unless crossed by bridges). Large rivers are generally full of water year round. There are snow tourists in winter, leaf tourists in autumn/spring and summer tourists

Cool Temperate BIOME- Summer, autumn, winter and spring. Autumn has falling leaves, and winter has snow. Rain and snow are regular features, rather than challanges. Autumn leaves attract tourists, but evergreens, though few and far between also attract tourists and locals. There are snow tourists in winter, leaf tourists in autumn/spring and summer tourists. Slow moving lakes/rivers can freeze, requiring ice breakers to remain navigable, however, fast moving rivers and the ocean don't freeze. One aurora per year

WARM TEMPERATE BIOME- Summer, autumn, winter and spring. No snow. Autumn has few falling leaves which attract locals and tourists, but cause a greater challenge. There may be the occasional snowfall, where snow becomes a challange (by which I mean that the city is unprepared to deal with snowfalls and has no snow infrastructure, and people don't know how to drive in snow. People will also be more likely to want to go out and see the snow. Winter has fewer tourists

TROPICAL DRY- Distinct dry season and distinct rainy season. The dry season attracts most tourists. The dry season has all dry vegetation and the wet season has all greenery, unless there is an event (sports events, concerts, Christmas, Chinese New Year, etc.) . Some tourists may travel to see the greenery during the wet season. Small lakes and rivers dry up during the dry season and fill in the wet season (large lakes and rivers are uneffected). Floods are an issue during the wet season. The city has to deal with a less of a water supply during tourist season, and a greater water supply when all tourists are gone.

TROPICAL GREEN- Distinct dry season and distinct rainy season. The dry season attracts most tourists. The dry season has all dry vegetation and the wet season has all greenery, unless there is an event (sports events, concerts, Christmas, Chinese New Year, etc.) Small lakes and rivers dry up during the dry season and fill in the wet season (large lakes and rivers are uneffected). Floods are an issue during the wet season. All vegetation is green year round, and there are very few tourists in the wet season. The city has to deal with less of a water supply during tourist season, and a greater water supply when all the tourists are gone.

POLAR- This is similar to snowfall in CS1. Tourists will travel to see the cold weather. In summer, tourists will travel to see the midnight sun, and in winter, tourists will travel to see the aurora. Slow moving lakes/rivers can freeze, requiring ice breakers to remain navigable, however, fast moving rivers and the ocean also freeze, but less frequently. Five or six auroras per year

TROPICAL WET- Hot and rainy year round. Rivers and lakes are always full

These are the default biomes, and you can play around them as they please, playing with the temperature and the amount of precipitation

Buildings used to see the aurora can also be used in non-polar climates for star gazers.
 

cityrailsaints

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I wonder if small hail stones could be used as a substitute for snow in hot climates. With enough small hail, you could build snow men and would start needing snow plows. Also, large hail stones can be a natural disaster
 
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