The problem with Basques, Equal Succession and the AI

Hichel

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Well, it's make sense for ruler with no male heir to try to adopt equal succession. There was such attempts historically.

I would say that the problem is more the AI selecting it just because it can and having no thought whatsoever. A king trying to preserve his line on the throne and doing something akin to pragmatic sanction is perfectly fair tbh
 
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King Anund

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Well, it's make sense for ruler with no male heir to try to adopt equal succession. There was such attempts historically.
That exists, it is called "Male preference". It was the Succession used for all Basque Principalities during the whole Middle Ages
 
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ZoCurious

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Well, it's make sense for ruler with no male heir to try to adopt equal succession. There was such attempts historically.
The attempts you mention were to introduce male-preference succession, whereby a ruler with no sons would be succeeded by a daughter. There were never any attempts in Christendom to favor an older daughter over a younger son.
 
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Orkonkel

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I've always loved the Nevarra start because of having access to equal laws (I always play the geneology game and I keep my daughters with matrelineal marriages for inheritable traits).

After reading this thread I just feel like Navarra is being misrepresented and shouldn't have equal laws AND also wtf Paradox fix it so primary/secondary female heirs marry matrilineally.

Great post OP! Hope this gets looked at.
 
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Interesting discussion. I guess it is something to reminds us that Paradox games rely quite a lot on what I would call pop culture history, which includes a lot of "common beliefs" and wikipedia-based data.
 
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I've always loved the Nevarra start because of having access to equal laws (I always play the geneology game and I keep my daughters with matrelineal marriages for inheritable traits).

After reading this thread I just feel like Navarra is being misrepresented and shouldn't have equal laws AND also wtf Paradox fix it so primary/secondary female heirs marry matrilineally.

Great post OP! Hope this gets looked at.
Thank you Orkonkel. My issue is mostly with the AI adopting the Law more than it being available for Basque rulers. Occitans, Catalans and Aragonese too have access to the Equal Law but the AI doesn't adopt it (unless they convert to an Equal Faith). I think that is the best option for the Basques too. So you would still have access to the Equal Succession, just the AI won't use it and would stay with its historical "Male preference".
 
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BeyondExpectation

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Thank you Orkonkel. My issue is mostly with the AI adopting the Law more than it being available for Basque rulers. Occitans, Catalans and Aragonese too have access to the Equal Law but the AI doesn't adopt it (unless they convert to an Equal Faith). I think that is the best option for the Basques too.
Is there any particular reason they should have access to it over the Norwegians, Georgians or Tuscans?
 

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Is there any particular reason they should have access to it over the Norwegians, Georgians or Tuscans?
It seems that in the French Basque Contry it was practiced in some rural peasant families in the Early Modern Period. That may justify being available. Although maybe there are cases in other cultures too. Because it was never practiced by the Kings or Noblemen I think it only being available for Player as some quirky thing is fine. I consider it a good compromise between Historical Accuracy and giving freedom to the Player.
 
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The attempts you mention were to introduce male-preference succession, whereby a ruler with no sons would be succeeded by a daughter. There were never any attempts in Christendom to favor an older daughter over a younger son.
Well, there was at least one case when daughter inherited over her brother. There was also some cases (already mentioned in other threads) when, in elective monarchies, when women was elected over male candidates (and elected as kings, not queens). All of this in Catholic countries. It seams that people in middle ages was more flexible and practical then often stereotyped ;) Of course, that doesn't mean that basques or anybody else should have unhistorical laws.

p.s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_IV_of_France#Death_and_legacy - "Twelve years earlier, a rule against succession by women, arguably derived from the Salic Law, had been recognised – with some dissent – as controlling succession to the French throne"
 
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TempestM

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Hopefully devs will look specifically into this. Just introducing new culture system with Royal Court won't fix it on it's own, because the problem mentioned isn't about having Basque culture having access to Equal laws (because that what all culture s with Visigothic codes can do), the problem is with Basque rulers changing inheritance asap just because they can, something that a few people in initial discussion missed
 
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Not only taking succession into account. Navarrese de Jure land toponomy is an aberration.

I've never heard/read anything close to Ipuskoa and its baronies. Please, remove Irún and add San Sebastian and Oiartzun in GIPUZKOA and DURANGO in Vizcaya county. I don't remember exactly how's being named in the game itself.

I don't rememer if Álava is portrayed...though the way to go is VITORIA barony as well.

Evert single time I start a new game playing as my homeland I have to rewrite locations.

The firs mention of something related to the modern day name of "Gipuzkoa" was "Ipuscua", so I personally find that the "Ipuskoa" of CK3 fits the time period and shows some great attention to detail. As for Donostia, it wouldn't be founded until 1180, so Irun kind of makes more sense.

Technically Durango should have a different province, since it was incorporated to Biscay quite late (in the same vein, Oñati wasn't incorporated to Gipuzkoa until the XIXth century), but I guess having it as a city in biscay should be enough.
 
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Lambert Simnel

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Thank you Orkonkel. My issue is mostly with the AI adopting the Law more than it being available for Basque rulers. Occitans, Catalans and Aragonese too have access to the Equal Law but the AI doesn't adopt it (unless they convert to an Equal Faith). I think that is the best option for the Basques too. So you would still have access to the Equal Succession, just the AI won't use it and would stay with its historical "Male preference".
I wouldn't mind if the AI would try it when there was a very strong reason to stop the eldest son inheriting. Maybe if he is a rival to the king or if he is of an incompatible religion then it would be believable.
 
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ZoCurious

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I wouldn't mind if the AI would try it when there was a very strong reason to stop the eldest son inheriting. Maybe if he is a rival to the king or if he is of an incompatible religion then it would be believable.
My question is: why are equality and primogeniture the only succession laws the AI ever pursues? It never bothers replacing elective and male only laws to something that would benefit their descendants, but does not waste a second adopting equality.
 
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My question is: why are equality and primogeniture the only succession laws the AI ever pursues? It never bothers replacing elective and male only laws to something that would benefit their descendants, but does not waste a second adopting equality.
Not exactly true - Czechs culture rulers will prefer Seniority, and at least Norse characters will take the decision to adopt Scandinavian Elective if they can.
 

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My question is: why are equality and primogeniture the only succession laws the AI ever pursues? It never bothers replacing elective and male only laws to something that would benefit their descendants, but does not waste a second adopting equality.
Oh yes. They need to fix that thing where one Anglo-Saxon gets onto the throne of France and suddenly France is stuck as elective for all eternity.
 

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Not exactly true - Czechs culture rulers will prefer Seniority, and at least Norse characters will take the decision to adopt Scandinavian Elective if they can.
Ah, you are right!

So the AI will only ever change succession laws to adopt culture-specific laws or to adopt primogeniture when available if there are no culture-specific laws available to them.

That needs fixing. The AI should always strive to secure the succession for their descendants, as it rightly does in CKII.
 
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LAF1994

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And vassals should strive to force through elective succession...
Not necessarily; there are plenty of historical cases where an over-strong nobility still maintained the existing dynasty.
Overall, elective succession in-game should probably be less 'free' than it is at the moment; historically a lot of nominally elective monarchies were just hereditary succession with extra steps (if an heir existed).
 
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