The Presidents: 1836-1936 - An Interactive US AAR

[William the III]

(( alright I'm leaving for 2 hours, don't start the spanish american war or a communist revolution without me))

"... and without further a due i will leave the politics of washington to tour this wonderful state so that I may show you poeple the advantages of the Federal party,such as..." - Rep. Leo, 1876

 

[Gloa]

((I do agree, we might want to send in some ships around Spanish territories - just in case they might be plotting nefarious things to do to those ships, you know?

We definitely can burn infamy, though* - especially if we ignore Guam or Puerto Rico or something (or just release one of the nations after annexing it - getting a puppet and a little infamy reduction). Who needs that when we can take the Philippines? A few nice cb's wouldn't be bad, though.

Maybe the Confederate government in exile could blow up a ship? They'd actually have some reason to do so, and unless Spain just handed them over I presume it would get about the same response.))

Perhaps we should have an investigation into the oppression in Cuba and other Spanish-American issues that would report back to Congress so that they could propose some solid policy for this issue?

 

[Revan529]

I wish it to be known that I have no qualms about a defensive war; if we are attacked, I will protect the American people from harm. However, in the event that the weakened Spanish were to harm us, I would not seek to seize territories; we are not an Empire, and we should not get into the habit of stealing lands. If that war would happen, I would only demand the return of the Confederate "government,' and war reparations, not Cuba, Guam, or the Philippines; if those lands should break away, and offer to join the Union peacefully, I would accept them with open arms.

I still believe a compromise could be worked out; we have a claim on Cuba, why don't we renege that claim for the Confederates? We would have the Rebels, Spain would be more secure, and war would be averted!

I also agree with Mr. Carr's assessment that you all would be less willing to attack Britain, France, or even Russia for the Rebels; you merely wish to bully Spain, as Britain and Russia do China. Despite claims that involvement in Spain is not imperialist, when we act the same as the British and Russian Empires, we cannot be anything but and Empire ourselves!

 

[William the III]

I wish it to be known that I have no qualms about a defensive war; if we are attacked, I will protect the American people from harm. However, in the event that the weakened Spanish were to harm us, I would not seek to seize territories; we are not an Empire, and we should not get into the habit of stealing lands. If that war would happen, I would only demand the return of the Confederate "government,' and war reparations, not Cuba, Guam, or the Philippines; if those lands should break away, and offer to join the Union peacefully, I would accept them with open arms.

I still believe a compromise could be worked out; we have a claim on Cuba, why don't we renege that claim for the Confederates? We would have the Rebels, Spain would be more secure, and war would be averted!

I also agree with Mr. Carr's assessment that you all would be less willing to attack Britain, France, or even Russia for the Rebels; you merely wish to bully Spain, as Britain and Russia do China. Despite claims that involvement in Spain is not imperialist, when we act the same as the British and Russian Empires, we cannot be anything but and Empire ourselves!

But we do not act imperialist. We are not trying to create some grand empire, we are trying to free oppresed peoples, from a goverment that is itself illegally harboring traitors and rebels just to spite us! The oppresed people of the spanish colonies have shown an intersest in freedom and it is our duty as americans to perpetuate it. The spanish have ruled unjustly for so long and violated the Monroe Doctrine so blatantly, we must act and bring their territories under our stewardship. Later, if they choose so, they can remain part of the US or become their own nation, but the first step towards freedom is our action

 

[Revan529]

Aren't the British trying to 'civilize' the natives? Should we invade Russia, China, British and French colonies? They are not free! If we are attacking a weak state that we could negotiate with still, let's call it what it is; imperialism and opportunism!

The British, French and Dutch all have colonies in the Americas; the Portuguese, the Russians, Swedes, and other nations did as well. We ourselves are not natives, but a conglomerate of immigrants.

As a final point you say they will be placed under our 'stewardship,' which I interpret as colonized, controlled, and oppressed by a free Republic, not an Empire. Think of it; if people dying for liberty see the example we make, they will see that 'freedom' is another word for 'empire,' for 'colonization,' for 'slavery.'

We cannot go around enforcing our values on the world; it is not our place to do so.

 

[William the III]

But do those great empires of Europe ever give representation or the chance of freedom to their colonies? Do they give them the right to vote and become equal participants in goverment? The answer is NO, never will the spanish or the portuguese or the russians colonies ever have the chance to attain liberty. If the a war with Spain were to occur, we would not just absorb them into some great, monolithic empire. We would give them the choice to enter this great Union and eventually become an equal and paticipaing state as we did with the Rio Grande and the Oregon Territories. I have travelled these parts extensively and they are deffinently better of than if they were to remain under Mexican control. With Spain american and asian colonies we have the chance to through off the last great colonial oppresor of the Americas and the Pacific, and a chance to better ourselves and the peoples of these lands at the same time.
- Rep. Leo

 

[King50000]

Mr Leo makes a valid argument. And let us not forget, that many people have not the strength or numbers to throw off their shackles and revolt from their colonial masters. Should we not aid all people wishing to form their own independent nation from the yoke of foreign oppressors? I would think yes, though there is always an alternative to war. Why can we not buy the island of Cuba from Spain? This would solve everything. We would not be going to war, the fugitivs in Cuba would be given justice, a plebiscite in Cuba could be held to determine if the Cuban locals would wish to be a part of America, and Spain will not be humiliated in the eyes of the world.

 

[William the III]

In fact why not buy Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philipines?

The Spanish goverment has been having hard times lately, ever since the Carlist revolt. I'm sure they would be willing to pawn off some of their far away colonial possessions for some badly needed capital. This would also give the people of thises areas a chance for freedom once and for all!

In fact I propose that a bill should be drafted to this effect, that this crisis may be resolved quickly.
- Rep. Leo

 

[William the III]

BBB: When is the next update coming?

 

[unmerged(252567)]

I have proposal here, as requested for the First Anti-Trust Act. It does not prevent monopolization by legally combined entities as of yet, it merely prevents monopolization by entities legally declared to be separate and prevents entities from being combined without it being public knowledge that they are so combined.

The issue of whether one super-competitor, someone able to outcompete other companies through legal and public combinations, should be able to monopolize an entire industry in a given area is a question for another day. For now this will prevent such monopolizations occurring not through competition but through collusion and conspiracy between companies whose shareholders and customers are led to believe are separate, are competitors.

The following actions are to be deemed felonies:

Cartelization: Legally separate companies colluding to adjust policy, such as raising rates or decreasing service. Ex: Price gouging, when the companies in a certain industry in a certain area all agree to raise their rates simultaneously so that the entire customer base is forced to pay it, with there being no lower priced competitor to undercut the raised rates.

Insider Trading: Legally separate companies sharing information in order to out do the competition through deceit rather than by out-competing them.


The following action is to be required for companies or persons to have their holdings legally considered combined or associated and not legally separate:

Public Disclosure: Companies must publish the names of their holdings, the name of what interest owns them if any, and the names of any interests they are legally associated or combined with, be it through the means of trusts or other methods. Companies that are not registered as being combined or associated with the states and the federal government are subject to the provisions against caramelization and insider trading.

 

[atomicsoda]

In fact why not buy Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philipines?

The Spanish goverment has been having hard times lately, ever since the Carlist revolt. I'm sure they would be willing to pawn off some of their far away colonial possessions for some badly needed capital. This would also give the people of thises areas a chance for freedom once and for all!

In fact I propose that a bill should be drafted to this effect, that this crisis may be resolved quickly.
- Rep. Leo

I do not believe the Spanish would sell to us due to our low relations with them. Cuba and Puerto Rico should be our priority as they are so close to our nation. The Philippines should not be a priority but if the Spanish persist in their hostility then we can seek to have the the Philippines freed as a n independent nation in our sphere.

((BBB, why do we need the Republicans to support a war? If the President and a majority of congress approves that should be enough. The USA has had many wars where their was significant domestic opposition, including the Mexican-American War))

 

[William the III]

Let the powers that be ((BBB)) whether our relations our high enough. We have enough reserve capital that I think they would atleast be willing to negotiate.

 

[Mikeboy]

((Don't even need congress to approve really, the Cuban Liberation Act previously passed by Congress gave the President Authority to act as he sees fit.))

 

[William the III]

((Don't even need congress to approve really, the Cuban Liberation Act previously passed by Congress gave the President Authority to act as he sees fit.))

((Can you redirect me to acopy of that.I want to read up on this issue.))

(( And what are the party colors for the Federals?))

 

[Mikeboy]

((It was ages ago, somewhere around Cameron's second term.))

 

[komisha]

((EDIT 1:Referring to Rogov's bill. Talk about major post lag.))

I would support this bill becoming law.

While I believe we have the ability to fight the Spanish decisively in the Philippines, I'm not certain we would be able to hold them or otherwise guarantee Filipino freedom.

EDIT 2: The Cuban Liberty Act, Signed into law by President Cameron during his third term, though it was overshadowed by his assassination a year later. The president is granted permission to negotiate over the Cuba purchase but is not explicitly granted permission or the funds to follow through with this Act alone.

 

[William the III]

((Thanks Komisha))

In accordance with the Cuban Liberty act of 1857 ((post #2314)) Article 3, section iii

"If an attempt is made by a European power to violate the right of Cuba to self government, it should be interpreted as justification for the President to declare war in defence of Cuban liberty."

It is legal ( casus belii) for the US to claim Cuba in the name of liberty and for the President to take the action he sees fit.
Now if this European power (Spain) should happen to be oppressing a few other colonies, I don't see why they shouldn't go through the same process as Cuba

 

[Revan529]

Yes, but Cuba has been owned by the Spanish for centuries! Long before the United States came into existence! The Act itself is unwarranted, and I doubt any nation would consider it valid; that is, no nation would agree with us, and we may well face the might of Europe on us.

Furthermore, why is the Act limited to Cuba; what of Guyana? The Dutch, British, and French all 'violate' South American self-governance. As do the Danes, and any other nation with colonies in America. If I wished to go further, we violate the rights of Native Americans to govern themselves, and our war would violate Cuban self-governance, since we would be taking control of Cuba (temporarily or not).

 

[BigBadBob]

Still waiting for Republican policies.

In the meantime, here's the projected power blocs for 1878 (Post-French nerf) listed in order of potential to destroy:

(1. Anglo-American) This is in brackets as there is no formal alliance, and an Anglo-American effort in any war is unlikely.
1. Anglo-German (This will undoubtedly break up sometime between 1880 and 1900).
2. American (We've got a lot of potential. We just don't seem to use it).
3. French
4. Russian
5. Austrian (These guys could probably beat the Russians in a fair fight, but the size of the Czar's Empire negates any qualitative advantages the Austrians might have).
6. Ottoman/Chinese (This depends on whether or not China westernizes now or later).

 

[King50000]

((We must do everything in our power to make a new super bloc - Anglo-Germanic America!!

And he's right, we need to go on a waring spree. Time to kick all the European powers out of the Americas, primarily the now pansy French))