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speeder

Second Lieutenant
2 Badges
Jun 8, 2013
112
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  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
I am trying to mod tactics but been seeing some weird behaviour.

Someone mentioned this on the modding forum but I need confirmation.

The "prepare" tactic, can fire as soon it is allowed, even if all flanks are still busy? (example: can a flank that the tooltip says "8 days to change tactics" switch to "prepare" immediately as soon it hits the mininum days it requires?)
 
I am trying to mod tactics but been seeing some weird behaviour.

Someone mentioned this on the modding forum but I need confirmation.

The "prepare" tactic, can fire as soon it is allowed, even if all flanks are still busy? (example: can a flank that the tooltip says "8 days to change tactics" switch to "prepare" immediately as soon it hits the mininum days it requires?)

No, it will not fire as soon as it is available. It has a chance of firing when the flank changes tactics. But phase-changing tactics can force an opposing flank into the new phase of battle, requiring them to choose a tactic for that phase. Relevant information from v3.1 patch notes:

"When a combat tactic changes the phase for a flank then the opposing side now automatically gets forced to choose a new tactic even if their ongoing tactic still isn't due to expire yet."
 
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I am seeing one side changing tactics every single day, regardless of tactics length.

I have encountered this behavior in both vanilla and my mod when a flank has >60% archers, as described here:

So according to the Wiki, every Tactic lasts a set Amount of Days. According to 00_combat_tactics.txt the lowest Amount of Days in the Skirmish Phase is 12 Days (Defence Tactics). Therefore a pure welsh Archer Retinue should be able to fire their Massive Longbow Volley for atleast 12 Days before being crushed by Charge on the Undefended Flank.
So I tried it with a max_tech Isle of Man in the 769 Start against the King of Pictland. I used a single Longbowman Retinue. To my Surprise the enemy Flank changed their Tactics daily, despite the UI saying "Next tactic change: 17 days". When I tried the same fight with a more balanced Army Composition 5 Trapper: 2 Longbowman the Tactics where changed according to the displayed Days.

I composed three different archer-heavy flanks (100%, 62%, 50%). During battle, the enemy flanks opposing my 100% and 62% archer flanks changed tactic every day, which allowed Charge on Undefended to trigger as soon as it became available (after three days), which sounds similar to what you have described regarding the Prepare tactic. The enemy flank opposing my 50% archer flank behaved as you would expect, i.e. not changing tactic until its initial tactic had run its course.

What was the composition of the flank that you were testing when you saw the weird behavior?
 
So, you were 100% correct, sadly. It means the game has some really bad hardcoded behaviour.

So, I am using archers to represent siege units, since siege only care about numbers, I intentionally jacked their number up.

I loaded one of my test savegames, and checked what flanks were doing the daily tactics switch.

One had 60% of archers exactly. the other 71%.

:(

Back to drawing board I guess.
 
Yeah, it's pretty frustrating.

Given that it seems to coincide with the threshold for triggering Charge on Undefended, I wonder whether it was an ill-conceived / ill-executed attempt to allow that tactic to trigger early, which could have been achieved by just changing the tactics logic (without any hardcoding). But then there's the patch note that says that it used to happen when flanking, so maybe it wasn't motivated by the tactic. Whatever the reason, it does seem to be hardcoded, which means that we're probably stuck with it. Would be nice if Paradox would patch the bugs before abandoning the game. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
 
I ran another test that confirms that this is hardcoded behavior tied to the 60% archer threshold. I composed a flank of 58% archers and 42% light infantry. I modded their defense values such that the light infantry would die at a higher rate, allowing me to observe the tactics of the enemy flank before and after the 60% archer threshold. Under 60%, the enemy flank tactics behaved normally, but as soon as the fraction of archers exceeded 60%, the enemy flank's tactics changed daily. They fired Charge on Undefended as soon as it became available (interrupting their existing tactic) and thereafter chose a new melee tactic each day. But this behavior happened even when I commented out the Charge on Undefended tactic. As soon as my flank hit 60% archers, the enemy flank's tactic was interrupted and they chose a new skirmish tactic every day. So it does seem to be an ill-executed attempt to allow Charge on Undefended to fire as soon as the opposing flank hits 60% archers, with the problem being that the hardcoded tactic interruption does not cease after Charge on Undefended has fired. But I think it's worth pointing out that the hardcoded tactic interruption should not just be "fixed" but removed altogether because it frustrates modding, and the same effect (getting Charge on Undefended to fire before 12 or 18 days of battle have elapsed) could be achieved by instead changing the scripting in 00_combat_tactics.txt, e.g. by decreasing the duration of skirmish tactics.