The Precinct Update & Make It Count DLC: Comments & Questions Thread

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Now, I assume we can agree that we disagree on this weapons' update :)
So let's stop this conversation, we can't convince each other ;)
Was interesting to see another player's point, though. Thank you :)
Agreed! ^^

To share two final things, not to convince you but in case they might be of help (to you and/or others):

For an average gangster, with a sniper rifle, you can't reposition AND shoot in the same turn, so you take free damage if your gangster can only use sniper rifles.
I've run into the same issue; now I tend to reposition and then use overwatch on a likely point as that only costs 1 AP even with a sniper rifle. As long as the overwatch doesn't expose you to attacks from other directions, it might still score you a hit; the AI isn't too good at avoiding them :)

And in the future, I can guarantee you'll find yourself hiring mostly gangsters that can use shotguns, and even so, you'll use mostly pistols/melee. Using sniper rifles, or even regular rifles, becomes suboptimal in 75% of the fights.
Screenshot from 2021-11-20 23-47-59.png
This is actually the crew I've been running with since Friday (although Rachel just joined the crew as a replacement for Ma Miller, who left after I shot her lover). They've all carried rifles since I hired them (except for Norah who ran with her starting sniper at first), as well as a pistol and a melee weapon (a trench knife for Zelnick, axes for the others), and of course the best body armour I could find or buy :) (I had a demolitionist with a machine gun at the very start but I fired her early on.)
I've taken over five precincts, taking out (almost) all the rackets first, so plenty of fights so far (the last one was against a boss with a 5-security safehouse and two sets of reinforcements that spawned right behind me); Zelnick has 107 kills, 14 with pistols, 9 with melee and 74 with rifles (and 10 unaccounted for, presumably explosives and bleeds); Norah has 53 kills, 1 with pistols, 6 with melee, 15 with rifles and 15 with sniper rifles (16 unaccounted); Grover has 52, 8 with melee and 30 with rifles (14 unaccounted); I don't know about Ma; Rachel has only 3 kills so far. The start was a bit bumpy but I'm not under the impression that I'm having real trouble at the moment because of the rifles.

I regularly use axes to clear up solitary mobs that get too close (or at the end of a fight when there isn't much left to expose your back to), but I'm mostly succesful at keeping mobs at a distance. One major asset is the fixer's (Rachel's/Ma's) talent poisoned crow's feet. It scatters poisoned spikes over a 3x3 area which interrupt the action of the first enemy to walk on them, slows them and poisons them. It's great at creating choke points or intensifying existing ones, which also makes it a great combination with explosives. The cooldown is low so you can use it multiple times in a fight. It might also help that three of my characters have movement-boosting trinkets, making them very mobile (9, 8, 8 and 5 movement); Grover in particular as he also has the talent that gives him a free move after killing someone, and the one for performing a max move followed by another action.
Ma had a cool booby trap talent. Rachel is currently learning a talent that allows her to fire a shot that ignores both obstacles and armour (as I understand it it doesn't just ignore cover but can actually fire through walls). I can't wait to see it in action!

I'll admit that my choice for rifles is partly aesthetical (which also accounts for all of them having an M1911 pistol). I don't know about optimal but for me (on lieutenant difficulty and combined with plenty of bleed, poison, high explosives and the occasional axe to the face) it seems at least viable :)
I'll freely admit I've never tried shotguns in earnest so I don't know how they'd compare; they might very well be much better. As you say, I wouldn't like to try the same with sniper rifles, I doubt that'd work either well or at all :p

The best of luck with your playthroughs!
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Overall dlc + patch are fine, but when grouped. the dlc alone for what it brings is not worth the money you give, 15 $ for a racket and a boss. I would have expected more activity sincerely. without a (character creation) we can't create our own story, so we have to live the current bosses story, which doesn't inspire and doesn't really matter when it's kill this go there kill that....STILL A SHALLOW GAME
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The first picture is in my current playthrough. Maxim has 100 marksmanship and a rifle, the enemy is behind a bench which grants full cover, the distance is three paces and the hit chance with a rifle is 69%. I think that's quite fair.
The second picture is of a new game I just started. Mabel has 75 marksmanship and the same rifle (same model, lower rarity but I don't think that affects marksmanship). The closest enemy is one pace away and is behind full cover, with a 17% hit chance. The other one is two paces away and has no cover, with a 49% hit chance. Again, I think this is quite fair. You can shoot with a 17% hit chance, but you can also maneuver away in such a way that you either create more distance and/or they no longer have (full) cover. Or, if you progress in the game, you can use abilities that force the thug to move, thus also removing their cover. Or you can mark them to decrease their defence by 25, which almost negates the full cover. Or you can invest in your crew to raise their marksmanship; your boss will gain it over time with notoriety, you can use trinkets, special bullets, weapon proficiency, high morale and happiness, and possibly some more. I'll grant you that 17% is not a lot. However, I think there are quite some things you can do to improve those odds.
Low tier rifles have lower hit chance.
Also you get bonus chance to as you kill more with rifles
So, what you're saying is exactly what I was saying : anything except close range weapons is irrelevant. And 7-8 tiles are not really "close" IMHO.
Let's assume you really think close range is the way and equip characters with only machine guns and melee. There will be instances where you will be outnumbered and with many enemies using overwatch/suppressing fire. Your machine gun damage might be high but hit chance falls hard over 8-10 range and suppressing fire will debuff it further. Versatility is key. Light footed con artists can heal & revive not triggering overwatches, hired guns can move farther and assassinate key positions, snipers can take out enemy key figures that are far away like healers&demolitionists. It's not always damage you are seeking.
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