The Popular Front- France and the Second World War

[Prufrock451]

Vann: Okay!

Latinsword: I'll let others weigh in on that, but I think the damning truth about Daladier is this- he was clever, but that just meant he felt the need for clever solutions. He acted quickly, covered himself, but failed to think in the long term or to think strategically. He was clever- but he was small.

 

[unmerged(61296)]

Man, that's some backstabbing coming up... Simply beautiful, Prufrock

BTW, for those who know history better than me: was Daladier such a weak man IRL?

Let's put it like that. Daladier in his political campaigns liked to present himself as the Vaucluse's Bull because of his energy. His adversaries riled him for having "snail's horns".

He was a honest politician, and he was no happy idealistic pacifist either. He had fought honorably during the Great War, and like every Frenchman of his generation refused to see another conflagration. Keep in mind that France, a country of 39 million inhabitants, suffered 1.4 million KIA, and 6 million WIA.

A full 10% of France's adult and productive male population was killed in 4 years, among them the youngest and brightest. No French politician in 1939 would have happily engaged in another war, actually. In this respect I do not blame Daladier for Munich, for example.

But once war began, Daladier kept hampering Reynaud's government, imposing Gamelin's unimaginative views, even asking for a bombing of Soviet Russia (as a reprisal for the Russo-Finnish war), as if France could afford another war. And that is the kind of behavior that honesty and past bravery cannot exactly compensate.

 

[latinsword]

Let's put it like that. Daladier in his political campaigns liked to present himself as the Vaucluse's Bull because of his energy. His adversaries riled him for having "snail's horns".

He was a honest politician, and he was no happy idealistic pacifist either. He had fought honorably during the Great War, and like every Frenchman of his generation refused to see another conflagration. Keep in mind that France, a country of 39 million inhabitants, suffered 1.4 million KIA, and 6 million WIA.

A full 10% of France's male population was killed in 4 years, among them the youngest and brightest. No French politician in 1939 would have happily engaged in another war, actually. In this respect I do not blame Daladier for Munich, for example.

But once war began, Daladier kept hampering Reynaud's government, imposing Gamelin's unimaginative views, even asking for a bombing of Soviet Russia (as a reprisal for the Russo-Finnish war), as if France could afford another war. And that is the kind of behavior that honesty and past bravery cannot exactly compensate.

Thanks for the information. I was aware of the trauma WWI represented for the nation involved, and for France specially, but not of Daladier position in all of this. Anyway, just a sidenote - let the AAR keep its way.

 

[unmerged(61296)]

So, de Lattre goes to Daladier to cover his head with ashes, just so he could keep his job for a few more weeks ?

And in the meantime, some of his clandestine operatives are presented with oblique job offers by old acquaintances ?

From where I stand, it feels as if a flock of vultures hads begun to circle over Daladier's government. The coming few weeks that de Lattre so want to spend in an official position will certainly see many an interesting event.

Send de la Rocque to the Elysée ! Oh, wait, he already has a gig on my AAR for the season

 

[Stuyvesant]

Where Basteaux appears, trouble soon follows. I'm assuming we're in France now (since Basteaux' companion talks about him having to leave Germany), so I'll also assume Basteaux is being asked to use his expertise in France itself.

Which makes the next scene, between Daladier and De Lattre, all the nastier. Doesn't Daladier realize De Lattre is being a little too nice, too contrite? You are making it look more and more like a coup is in the offing, particularly now that it seems that Basteaux will be involved. Nice.

By the way, I really enjoyed this quick exchange between Basteaux and his anonymous counterpart:

"How's it taste sucking the Socialist tit, Francois?"

The young man's face twisted as he hid behind a smirk. "How's it taste being poor?"

Zing!

Finally, thanks to Atlantic Friend for giving me a little extra insight into French history. Always amazing how much you can actually learn from reading these Forums.

 

[Prufrock451]

AF: Good to know. Yes, indeed. And as to your second post? "Interesting events?" Perhaps...

Stuyvesant: Basteaux is indeed back in France. And thanks.

More today.

 

[unmerged(61296)]

AF: Good to know. Yes, indeed. And as to your second post? "Interesting events?" Perhaps...

Stuyvesant: Basteaux is indeed back in France. And thanks.

More today.

My own reactionary Conservative and Crypto-Nationalist alternate French government requests, no, DEMANDS an update now. All the Croix de Feu are ready to cheer de Lattre and carry him in triumph all the way to the Elysée if need be !

 

[Prufrock451]

Well, MY fragile and inept Leftist/Socialist/Communist government demands that your crypto-fascist government immediately legalize all unions, institute the forty-hour week, and then hold elections in order to install a new government!

However, we do send quiet congratulations on your toppling Mussolini.

 

[unmerged(61296)]

Thanks for the information. I was aware of the trauma WWI represented for the nation involved, and for France specially, but not of Daladier position in all of this. Anyway, just a sidenote - let the AAR keep its way.

I edited my post because I left aside the "adult and productive" part. With 39 million inhabitants, a solid 5% of all Frenchmen were killed, and the percentile rises to 10% if you count only men of military age.

For France, WW1 was a real decimation, and it was the country who suffered most respective to its initial population.

WW2 saw French soldiers dying at an even more rapid rate than they did in WW1 : more than 100,000 dead in just two months of fighting. To give you an idea, the average "death rate" of WW1 was below 30,000 dead French soldiers a month. That should give an idea of the intensity of the fighting for the French troops.

 

[unmerged(61296)]

Well, MY fragile and inept Leftist/Socialist/Communist government demands that your crypto-fascist government immediately legalize all unions, institute the forty-hour week, and then hold elections in order to install a new government!

However, we do send quiet congratulations on your toppling Mussolini.

Ha ! We're way ahead of you about the 40-hour week and the paid leave. And all Unions are legal unless Communist-dominated.

As for toppling Il Buffone, it was our pleasure, and we can only quietly hope you'll follow our lead by offing Josif Vissarionovitch Djougatchivili. And that Thorez chappie needs some caning, we think.

 

[Prufrock451]

December 5, 1938

Gamelin looked sick.

"You've done this?"

De Lattre nodded firmly. "It's in motion. Even if we wanted to stop it, it's too late."

Gamelin covered his face. "My God, my God. Jean, this is... insane."

"It's what's necessary."

"If it fails, we will all-"

"But if it succeeds?"

Gamelin shook his head and stood. "There are still ways to call this off. If we go to Daladier now- if he goes on the radio-"

De Lattre shot up and gripped Gamelin's arm. "Do. Not." The two men stared each other down.

"What you're doing is treasonous."

"It is patriotism."

Gamelin yanked his arm free. "If you succeed, you will make a mockery of everything the Republic stands for! The rule of law! Democracy itself!" He jabbed a finger into de Lattre's chest. "Damn you, Jean, your coup will destroy France."

De Lattre leaned in close. "This coup is France's salvation!" He turned back to the wall map. "Oster is second in command of the Abwehr! Witzleben and List have the army behind them!" He shook his head. "I only wish they hadn't wasted so much time talking to the British- if we'd known that Schacht was ready to cooperate as well..." De Lattre whirled around, his face feverish with excitement. "It can work. They've been ready to act since before Munich. With our agents helping them to coordinate and the funding we've provided..."

De Lattre grinned. "By this time next month, there'll be nothing left of the Nazis but bad memories and museum displays." His grin vanished. "But I need your help. I need you. If you go to Daladier- if he finds out I've coordinated this behind his back- months of planning disappear. Our best hope for peace disappears."

Gamelin mused. He slumped in his chair, a dazed look on his face. He could withstand anything on the battlefield, but political thought left him shellshocked. Finally, he looked up.

"Jean, if this succeeds, you will take no credit. You will erase every trace of French involvement." Gamelin stood and put on his cap. He summoned every particle of his years of command and focused them into an unnerving glare. "If this fails, you will have squandered huge amounts of money. You will have risked war. There may still be war over this. And you will pay the ultimate price for that."

De Lattre leaned forward. "If we don't risk this, then how many thousands will pay that price?" He closed his eyes and sagged. "I'm willing to lay down my life to avoid that."

Gamelin sighed. "My God." He looked wearily at the map, its lines of communication, its mysterious pins, the red circles showing Munich, Cologne, Hamburg, Berlin. "When?"

"Christmas."

 

[GeneralHannibal]

I still don't know what they're planning, but it doesn't exactly sound like a coup...

 

[Prufrock451]

Oh, it's a coup alright. It's just in Berlin instead of Paris.

 

[unmerged(58852)]

Facinating.

I have to agree with AF concerning Daidler for Americans interested in the subjuect I would recomend the book Strange Victory for its excellet overview of french and german politques prior to WWII. AF may know better suggestion... if they are vailable in English.

 

[latinsword]

this is the kind of update that will keep me awake at night... if another dosen't come up today!

De Lattre is indeed playing all his cards. It'd be the strangest twist in Europe politics if he succeeds.

 

[unmerged(61296)]

Facinating.

I have to agree with AF concerning Daidler for Americans interested in the subjuect I would recomend the book Strange Victory for its excellet overview of french and german politques prior to WWII. AF may know better suggestion... if they are vailable in English.

"Collapse of the Third Republic" by Shirer is the only other one that comes to mind. "Strange Defeat" by Bloch and Shirer's book are the only two ones I know that are immediately accessible to English readers.

 

[Vann the Red]

Oh, my. Well, we'll either have an early war or a totally different war.

Vann

 

[Commander-DK]

It'd be the strangest twist in Europe politics if he succeeds.

But what if it does succeed? Then the game will be over, unless UK and USA turn against the soon-to-be France-Germany-USSR Comintern?

Now, THAT would be a war worth watching...

Jesper

 

[EmprorCoopinius]

De Lattre certainly isn't lacking in ambition is he?

 

[Prufrock451]

Adam: Those books do sound fascinating. Thanks for the recommendations, AF.

Latinsword, Vann, DK: Ah, and will it succeed? And will it reshape Europe? We shall see (changing it up a little)!

Coop: Nope!

December 6, 1938

General Fritz Halder mused quietly. "I don't like having this scheduled so far out. A thousand things could go wrong between now and then."

Hans Oster shrugged. "We don't have much choice. Our French contacts are moving as quietly as possible. If they say they need until the 24th, then we have to give it to them."

General Beck leaned in. "Arthur's got the Kripo patrol schedules worked out perfectly. Our men in the SS have come through with schedules there as well." He smiled. "Dohnanyi finally committed this morning. Everything is going perfectly."

Oster rubbed his chin. "Fritz, we understand your concerns. But we need your full and absolute commitment." He frowned. "If only the French had approached me earlier."

"Instead of killing Schacht?"

Oster smirked bitterly. "Between those trigger-happy loons and the pigheaded British, it's a wonder Hitler hasn't already conquered Europe. But- they're on the right track now. And so are we."

Halder frowned. "What good is all this French money? If someone joins us for gold, they'll betray us for gold."

"The money's worked its way through a dozen different channels. It's all dark now. There are a thousand criminal operations in Germany, and ninety percent of them operate under a swastika. Agents are paid out of that fund, arms caches, access to files, safe houses... we've set up an operation completely off the chart." He grinned. "All of that French money laundered through de Lattre's fascist friends goes straight to Nazi functionaries and we're the ones who'll reap the benefit."

Halder scowled. "More likely we'll reap the whirlwind." He stood. "You know I'm firm. But we need to strike soon. We're too exposed."

Oster shrugged. "Reichenau's in charge of the Westwall now. If we strike, he'll side with Hitler. That means the Rhineland falls against us, and probably Bavaria and Austria as well. We need French support. We need to wait."

Halder stood. "Very well. Three more weeks." He put on his cap and snapped off a salute. "Good fortune to all of us. In the meantime..." he grinned. "I'm going to get my Christmas shopping done early this year."