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Guinnessmonkey

Après moi le Déluge
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Feb 27, 2002
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First, some pop basics and tips:


1. The most important thing everyone should know, and I can't say it too many times, is that all pops represent only the working population. This is 1/4 of the real total population. 100,000 people = 25,000 pops, got it. ;) The game will, in ledgers and various interfaces, multiply this up into the full population. Therefore when you check to see your nation's population it does show the full population. Remember: 1/4. Don't forget it... Many of us beta's have spent countless hours searching for pops that seem 4x what they should be and I'm sure there are still some we've missed.... Therefore if anyone sees an area with 4x or more population than it should post about it ASAP and we'll try to get it fixed. :)

2. Don't include laborers in pops... It's a waste of your time. The game will autoconvert farmers into laborers when needed, so it's best to call all non-industrial working-class citizens farmers... Why farmers instead of making them all laborers? Because popmaker, the program that turns pop .txt files into .csv files, will turn all leftover pops (pops that, due to percentages and decimals are rounded out) into farmers. These farmers are placed in that files "capitol".

This, of course, was something many of us only realized later... It doesn't necessarily hurt the pops to put in laborers (AFAIK), it's just a waste of your time (as a pop-coder). So don't bother. ;)


3. Under no circumstances should pops of different religions or cultures be placed in the same file. If you want both Catholic and Protestant Irishmen in New York City then you need two files, one for Irish Catholic and one for Irish Protestant. Many states/regions, particularly in the USA and Eastern Europe, have provinces with many, many cultures, making for many, many files. It think the record is New York in '14: 11 files for one state/region. What can I say? I can be a perfectionist at times. ;)

I'll post more here as I think of it... Now on to part two.... :D
 
Last edited:
The pop file:

Your basic popfile, the thing you post here on the forum and submit to folks, is a .txt file done like this (this being "Newyork_Irish.txt", from the '61 scenario):

Name: NEW YORK
Population: 151000
Culture: Irish
Religion: Catholic
Capital: 583
Provinces:
583 - 65%
579 - 15%
580 - 5%
581 - 5%
606 - 5%
Workforce:
aristocrats - 0%
officers - 3%
clergymen - 4%
capitalists - 2%
clerks - 4%
craftsmen - 17%
soldiers - 10%
farmers - 60%
labourers - 0%
slaves - 0%



This is all that should appear in the file. These things run through a compiling program (popmaker.exe, which I believe is included on your Vicky CD's) to turn them into .csv's (I'll explain popmaker later), so don't stray from the format.

Now, let's dissect this popfile:

Name: NEW YORK -----> this doen't do anything for the file... It's just a way to keep the names of files straight... For new files and scenarios it's equally helpful to just name the file itself something more easily remembered (such as USA_NewYork_Irish.txt, or something like that..).

Population: 151000 ----> as state above, this is 1/4 the real population, or 604,000 people. :)
Culture: Irish ---> here you list the culture as defined by the list of culture tags.
Religion: Catholic ---> seems self explanitory. ;)
Capital: 583 -----> Capital does two things. Primarily it determines where ALL of the upper class pops live (as determined file by file). This is why it's a HORRIBLE idea to have all your pops for, say, France, as one big file. That way every single aristocrat and capitalist will be in Paris. Better to split it up. :) Also, popmaker.exe will place a few rounded pops in this prov, so even if a file has no upper class pops (remember that we work in thousands, so if there weren't 4,000 or more capitalists in Wyoming in 1861 than it gets no capitalists, even if IRL there were 24 bankers living there. ;)
Provinces:
583 - 65%
579 - 15%
580 - 5%
581 - 5%
606 - 5%

------> this, of course, is the splitup of how many pops live in the various provinces you're using in the file. Make sure you don't give percentages so low that pops get rounded out of existence (unless you don't mind... They'll just end up in the capitol anyway)
Workforce:
aristocrats - 0%
officers - 3%
clergymen - 4%
capitalists - 2%
clerks - 4%
craftsmen - 17%
soldiers - 10%
farmers - 60%
labourers - 0%
slaves - 0%

-----> this is the spitup between the various types of pops. :) Yhea, the number of soldiers is high, but it is the ACW, after all. :p
Remember that pops are first divided into provs and then into pops... 151000 * 5% * 4% means there will be zero (302 < 1000, and is therefore rounded out) Irish Catholic clerks in province 606 (don't remember which one that is...). There will, however, be 58890 (235560 people) Irish low class farmer/laborer pops in NYC. Perhaps the USA player should put these "fresh of the boat" immigrants to work by educating them into craftsmen? :p :D
 
The final bit.... Popmaker and the .csv's:

After you've coded up your pop .txt files put them in a folder with your copy of popmaker.exe (don't know where it is on the CD, but I'm pretty sure it's there). Simply run the program and it will turn all your .txt files into seperate .csv files of the same name.

A .csv file looks like this on the inside:


Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousness;Militancy;Size
579;Irish;Catholic;craftsmen;;;;3
579;Irish;Catholic;soldiers;;;;2
579;Irish;Catholic;farmers;;;;13
580;Irish;Catholic;craftsmen;;;;1
580;Irish;Catholic;farmers;;;;4
581;Irish;Catholic;craftsmen;;;;1
581;Irish;Catholic;farmers;;;;4
583;Irish;Catholic;officers;;;;4
583;Irish;Catholic;clergymen;;;;9
583;Irish;Catholic;capitalists;;;;3
583;Irish;Catholic;clerks;;;;3
583;Irish;Catholic;craftsmen;;;;14
583;Irish;Catholic;soldiers;;;;9
583;Irish;Catholic;farmers;;;;58
606;Irish;Catholic;craftsmen;;;;1
606;Irish;Catholic;farmers;;;;4
583;Irish;Catholic;farmers;;;;18


I believe Ideology, Militancy, and Consiousness are now working but I'm not sure (either way it wasn't when we coded the popfiles in the game.... Perhaps that will be tweaked as we go on. :)).

Either wa, these are the files as popmaker makes 'em. :p

Notice the last entry: 583;Irish;Catholic;farmers;;;;18
These are the pops that were rounded off and placed in the capital by popmaker. :)


Once all this is done you simply need to put the file in the your scenario folder and then add it into the .eug file for the scenario (pop = "scenarios/1861/Newyork_Irish.csv").


Any questions?
 
hint: never ever modify a pop.csv file with EXCEL.
 
Originally posted by Guinnessmonkey
I believe Ideology, Militancy, and Consiousness are now working but I'm not sure (either way it wasn't when we coded the popfiles in the game.... Perhaps that will be tweaked as we go on. :)).


Just to confirm, militancy definitely works in POP files - it is used with the two Patagonian POP files for southern Chile & Argentina in the 1881 scenario.
 
Remember that pops are first divided into provs and then into pops... 151000 * 5% * 4% means there will be zero (302 < 1000, and is therefore rounded out) Irish Catholic clerks in province 606 (don't remember which one that is...). There will, however, be 58890 (235560 people) Irish low class farmer/laborer pops in NYC.

How likely is it for an Irish Catholic clerk POP to appear later in the game in that province ?

And, all the Aristocrats, Capitalists, etc, they will suffer the most from rounding.
Maybe it would be good to make a pop with the same 'class' in the capitol, not convert all the rounding errors to farmers.
Thus, the class distribution of the result would be more like the class distribution of the source.
 
Is it possible to add cultures? I have found the worldname file, added a tag, and made a pop file to test it, it doesn't work. The culture turns to none.
 
Originally posted by Havard
You cannot add new tags.

So it is hardcoded?:( How about replacing an existing tag and renaming it? Are there any hidden cultural modifiers, beside the flavour?
 
I tried to add Armenian POP's to Konstantiniyye using the POP-maker. Everything worked fine. I copied the cvs file to the right place, right next to Konstantiniyye_Greek and Turkish files. I opened the 1836 scenario file. Inserted a line right above the Greek file, so that it includes my new Armenian csv file. Then i tried to run Victoria, but right after the loading screen, when i choose single player, i got an error message. it said some line = 1 missing in 1836 scenario etc. or something like that. when i said ignore, the game started without the Grand Campaign option.

I deleted the Armenian files and the extra line from the GC scenario file, but i had the exact same issue.

It all turned normal when i replaced the original file (that i had copied elsewhere). What am i doing wrong?
 
Originally posted by madner
So it is hardcoded?:( How about replacing an existing tag and renaming it? Are there any hidden cultural modifiers, beside the flavour?
-You can rename existing tags. E.g. you could replace some African culture with "African Minor" and use it for something else.
 
Originally posted by Tunch Khan
I tried to add Armenian POP's to Konstantiniyye using the POP-maker. Everything worked fine. I copied the cvs file to the right place, right next to Konstantiniyye_Greek and Turkish files. I opened the 1836 scenario file. Inserted a line right above the Greek file, so that it includes my new Armenian csv file. Then i tried to run Victoria, but right after the loading screen, when i choose single player, i got an error message. it said some line = 1 missing in 1836 scenario etc. or something like that. when i said ignore, the game started without the Grand Campaign option.

I deleted the Armenian files and the extra line from the GC scenario file, but i had the exact same issue.

It all turned normal when i replaced the original file (that i had copied elsewhere). What am i doing wrong?
Could you mail me the csv?

(victoria @ kerak.com)
 
Originally posted by unknown-X-
Hmm...to add new tags ye have to change victoria.exe, so it *is* possible, but requires alot of work.
Well, technically you are off course correct, but since only a few people can do that (i.e. only the programmers at Paradox) I chose to refer to the practical side of the question... ;)
 
Originally posted by Havard
Could you mail me the csv?

(victoria @ kerak.com)

i guess i did... hope you get it. :)
 
Originally posted by Tunch Khan
i guess i did... hope you get it. :)
Got it. And there's nothing wrong with the csv file you had. I just put it in the scenarios\gc folder and added the filename in the pops list in 1836.eug and it worked fine :)

There's something wrong with the 1836 you sent me though. This is the start of the file:
Code:
[color=skyblue]"name = ""GC_NAME"""	

header = {[/color]
, while this is the start of my 1836.eug:
Code:
[color=skyblue]name = "GC_NAME"

header = {[/color]
:confused: