The Pope upset with Orthodox heretics. Bug or as intended?

[Isen]

As a result of marriages and inheritances, the kingdom of Ireland got flooded by Orthodox Christians who, once out of the reach of the Patriarch, decided to become iconoclasts.

I appointed some iconoclasts as well as orthodox Orthodox to my council. No one seemed to mind the Orthodoxs, but I received a flood of complaints about the iconoclasts from my (Catholic) vassals and eventually a stern letter from the Pope. Bug, or as intended?

 

[PureBeef]

Intended.

 

[Gunnarr]

that is weird.

Seeing as iconoclasts are not "heretic" enough for mutual holy war to be available between iconoclasts and catholics.

The way heresies work in this game is just weird.

 

[Zireael]

Why would the Pope care about Orthodox heresies?

 

[PureBeef]

I misread, but are any of your lands belonging to those heretic Orthodox members? I've had that happen before with the Pope contacting me.

 

[LTawesome222]

i think this happened because the territories are still catholic, no?

 

[wormyguy]

Why would the Pope care about Orthodox heresies?

Well, the Iconoclasm dispute was partially responsible for the Great Schism in the first place, so it's within the realm of possibility that this is WAD (but probably not).

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

Why would the Pope care about Orthodox heresies?

Because they're heretics from the greater Catholic church and don't recognize the authority of their recognized patriarchal bishops.

Iconoclasts in particular are opposed to the use of images and statues in worship, which is a major feature of Christendom. They're just as controversial to the Catholics as Lollards. Neither was the Iconoclast debate particular to the Orthodox side of the map. Later in the timeline.

 

[Gunnarr]

Why would the Pope care about Orthodox heresies?

Iconoclasm is more than an orthodox heresy. It was condemned by the entire church in ecumenical councils, which included Rome before the schism. (Iconoclasm was condemned in the Seventh Ecumenical Council, 797 AD)

It is the same for actually almost all of the Orthodox heresies in the game. They were condemned in ecumenical councils before the great schism so they are the heresies of both Orthodox and Catholic. So, why would the Pope NOT care about these old heresies? Especially Iconoclasts in his own jurisdiction?

Here is a list of "Orthodox" heresies and the date they were condemned.

Nestorianism, condemned in Third Ecumenical Council, AD 431

Monophysitism, condemned in Fourth Ecumenical Council, AD 451 ("Miaphysites" are also condemned, as they do not accept the Chalcedonian creed laid out in the Fourth Ecumenical Council)

Monothelitism, condemned in the Sixth Ecumenical Council, AD 680-681

Iconoclasm, condemned in the Seventh Ecumenical Council, AD 787

Great Schism: AD 1054

Please realize that all the heresies listed above were condemned by the entire church, BEFORE THE SPLIT TO ROMAN CATHOLIC AND EASTERN ORTHODOX! The Bishop of Rome condemned all of these heresies. They are not only Orthodox heresies, they are Catholic heresies. The only reason that they are listed as Orthodox heresies is because they originated in the east and did not spread to the west, just to simulate that if these heresies took root, it is more likely it would be in the east as there was a history of it.

If any of these heresies were in the west, they would be looked on exactly like they did in the east, as heresies. Again, because the Bishop of Rome also condemned these heresies even before the great schism, and they still do condemn them.

So, it is unrealistic for the Pope to not care that much about an iconoclast Ireland. it should be treated the same way it is in the east, as it is how it would be in reality.

(I mean, Orthodox get holy war CB on Iconoclasts, and Iconoclasts holy war on Orthodox, it should also be like that for Catholics and Iconoclasts, as they are just as much of a heresy for them as well)

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

What about the Bogomils? Didn't they appear as early as 200AD? Except for the Gnostic part, it would seem a lot of the later doctrines of Christendom relating to sexual abstinence and God's view abd actions toward mankind, originated or were influenced by them.

 

[yezhanquan]

As long as you're a Catholic ruler, having council members or vassals who are not Catholic will invite comments or letters sooner or later. Just force them to convert.

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

As long as you're a Catholic ruler, having council members or vassals who are not Catholic will invite comments or letters sooner or later. Just force them to convert.

Apparently this is not the case if they're Orthodox, or maybe vice verse.

 

[yezhanquan]

Apparently this is not the case if they're Orthodox, or maybe vice verse.

Then again, I never leave any direct vassal or court member at his/her native non-Catholic religion for very long.

 

[Gunnarr]

What about the Bogomils? Didn't they appear as early as 200AD? Except for the Gnostic part, it would seem a lot of the later doctrines of Christendom relating to sexual abstinence and God's view abd actions toward mankind, originated or were influenced by them.

Well...

I do not know of any bogomils existing anywhere near 200 AD. About their influence, you would have to persuade me. The sacredness of virginity was greatly supported by the Apostle Paul, so i would not credit that to the gnostics or the bogomilists as it was already a tradition from the start. about the other teachings... i see no parallels

 

[unmerged(237533)]

Actually not only was iconoclasm condemned by the whole church in the middle ages, when the iconoclasts took over the ERE, it was the papacy that harbored many of the iconodule greek clergy, helping ensure their eventual restoration.