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Originally posted by Lunar
So will you be able to handle coding most of the events Marty? Think we (read: you ;)) should start on the main ones that drive the course of the war?

edit: Now that I think about it, converting the file to normal format has to be done first in order for events to be tested.

Well, the file DEFINITELY has to be converted normal HoI format before we (Read: I :D ) start to make the main war-driving events.
 

Buke

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I like the # 1 and 2 ideas as well. As for #3 I think right now we have a good mix of nations, not all regrettably but most. I have tried unifying nations like the Central American nations but I have never been satisfied with the results.

As for coding I'm working on it and most will be easy, the province. csv file will be the most difficult simply because of its size and the fact that almost all provinces require some changes.

Also martywolf and lunar, could one of you post the general plotline as of now?
 

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Dissidents..........

Hello!

This is the correct forum for general plot discussions, isn´t it? EU, or rather the quite similar alliance that is we discuss here, can never go to war against the US nor the UK in the near future. The basic problem that I see is the lack of nationalism. The situation can not easely be compared to that during WWII, when the trust in the government were much higher.

If the government, in case of a world war, decides to either:
A) Go to war against the US
B) Stay neutral
C) Join the US alliance
the outcom wold be the same. Enormus amount of dissidents. In my opinion, the european inhabitans are much more interested in their own personal ideas about the world.

For example: I would try to help the UK + US war effort in any way that I could even if Sweden went into war against those nations, but some of my friends here in Sweden find it more important that the US looses than the survival of democray. Others would be outraged if we took any other position than a neutral one.

I can not speak for US, but I belive that conscripting american civilians without a direct threat against the CONUS would lead to enormus Vietnam-era protests. Therefore do I find it much more realistic that the US initially suffers from massive dissidents, and when the country starts to be directly threathend, the figures will decrease.

Just some toughts, and I do have to apoligize for my english.
 

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yeah and thats why i decided that this mod is boring, sorry. hugh dissidents or not, i want a united EU or at last fight against USA. everything else isnt interesting.
im not complaining. im just saying how it is, no need to start a discussion about it.
 

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The only scenario that is interesting to you is one giant EU country fighting the US? Well then we simply cannot help you.

First off, we're trying to strive for some form of realism...

Secondly, the US provinces are poorly designed and would be a poor place to base half the mod around or whatever it was that you were hoping for.
 

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Alright how about this. To get a better idea of what we can do within reason with nations I think we need to set out the timescale of the scenario.

I propose the start date be 3/19/2003 with the start of the Iraq war. Then 3-4 years of war on terrorism and limited actions mainly to spread the US out. With 2006-2007 being the start of war in Asia. With about 5 years of general war throughout the world.
.
 

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Originally posted by Buke
Alright how about this. To get a better idea of what we can do within reason with nations I think we need to set out the timescale of the scenario.

I propose the start date be 3/19/2003 with the start of the Iraq war. Then 3-4 years of war on terrorism and limited actions mainly to spread the US out. With 2006-2007 being the start of war in Asia. With about 5 years of general war throughout the world.
.

I'd give it 3 years for the war on terrorism and thus 2006 for the Asian war. My impression is also somewhere around mid-2007 for the war to engulf the globe.
 

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Originally posted by Dr. Med. Wurst
yeah and thats why i decided that this mod is boring, sorry. hugh dissidents or not, i want a united EU or at last fight against USA. everything else isnt interesting.
im not complaining. im just saying how it is, no need to start a discussion about it.

If you want a unrealistic huge EU combat against the U.S., please look elsewhere, but thank you for your interest and former participation. Thanks :)
 
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Originally posted by Lunar
I'd give it 3 years for the war on terrorism and thus 2006 for the Asian war. My impression is also somewhere around mid-2007 for the war to engulf the globe.

Yeah, that sounds reasonable, and it's definitely enough time for a good build-up. What year is the CTF going to enter the war?

I just want to get some of the dates and some of the major undetailed plot good becuase maybe I'll start making some of the war-driving events.
 

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Originally posted by Lunar
early 2007- Invasion of India
2007- invasion of Ukraine
mid-2007- Fall of Kiev and CTF DOW
mid-2007- Fall of New Dehli

My guesses for those aspects, I'm not going to bother guessing for Taiwan and Seoul.

Well, because of Human involvement, we really can't plan out the exact date of the Fall of provinces, but we can get a good estimate in.
 

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Originally posted by Lunar
early 2007- Invasion of India
2007- invasion of Ukraine
mid-2007- Fall of Kiev and CTF DOW
mid-2007- Fall of New Dehli

My guesses for those aspects, I'm not going to bother guessing for Taiwan and Seoul.
The CTF DOW would probably happen when Russia declare war against Ukraine.
 

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Heres another wild card Russia what will be Russia’s role in the war.

I know you guys wanted a Russia that could be a threat to Europe but the more I look into it the less likely it becomes. Today Russia has zero capability to wage a war outside of Russia and if Western Europe got involved then Russia really would not have a chance. It has a large army yes but no capability to sustain a major foreign war.

Russia could become a major power once more but in any realistic scenario that would not be for a decade or more and most likely as a friend not a foe of the west as only in that way would they be giving the foreign investment they would require.

Anyway I don't think a Russia capable of threatening Europe is plausible in the timescale involved.

Thus I will propose once more that a War between China and Russia is the best way to go. There is talk of a Civil war in Russia and that may be able to go somewhere. We could have Chinese, Russian rebels and say Central Asian forces vs. Russian government forces and European allies Battling in Russia.

Here is a general outline of my proposal.
2003-2006 war on terrorism, and well find something for Europe to do like missions to Africa and stuff.

Meanwhile China will be Building up its forces. Something along these lines.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/03/24/willy.column/

2006 war in Asia breaks out by witch time China is fully geared up while the US is spread out. The US gets involved but the UK does not, it has not interests or alliances in Asia.

2007 war spreads Pakistan goes into India with Chinese support but the main Chinese drive now would be Russia as stated above. The UK would get involved in India; The US would be gearing up, as it still is garrisoning Iraq and other spots.

I think we should save a major war between the US and Iran, Syria or any big Mid east war till this time. Maybe a Arab attack on Israel while the world is elsewhere? A major war here would assure Chinese victory in the short term in Asia if you are worried about China getting overwhelmed.

The EU would get involved once Russia started falling and From then its a race. As China/china allies you must win quickly before the enemies you now face fully build up. If you can clear Asia of your enemies you stand a good chance of holding off the west.
As Europe or the US you must fight hard not fully prepared until you can muster the force to overwhelm China and its allies. Then it will be a drive across Asia into the Chinese heartlands.


What do you think? Questions?
 

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I think we can have two scenarios either a Chinese supported Russian invasion of Europe or a war in RUssia between the alliances.


Buke make a good point on how weak Russia really is. I dont really think they even can invade Finland if Norway and Sweden supports Finland.
 

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Originally posted by Buke
As China/china allies you must win quickly before the enemies you now face fully build up. If you can clear Asia of your enemies you stand a good chance of holding off the west.

It seems like you assume the only country people will play is China. I really want the game to be balanced, even at the sacrifice of some realism. I also don't want China vs the World, that's one thing you're going to have to deal with if you want to please me ;). I just really hate the idea of the rest of the world pounding Chinese AI into a pulp.

Ok, here are some choices:

1) Russia's abilities are boosted for some reason (economy depression in EU, Chinese support, etc.)

2) China somehow allies with India, perhaps the Communist party gets elected or the Maoist rebels take over with Chinese support.

There's more, but these are the two that come to mind.
 

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Originally posted by Lunar
It seems like you assume the only country people will play is China. I really want the game to be balanced, even at the sacrifice of some realism. I also don't want China vs the World, that's one thing you're going to have to deal with if you want to please me ;). I just really hate the idea of the rest of the world pounding Chinese AI into a pulp.

I totally agree with you. Many people here seem to think people are only going to play China, but I want it to be balanced to play anybody. I personally would rather play Russia or the U.S., rather than China! We can't make a scenario where it's all of the Western Civiliazations beating up the Communists.

Perhaps, maybe we Don't get Russia into the war until 2011? With all that time, and some of Lunars options, it might be SEMI-PLAUSIBLE to have Russia take on Europe.
 

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Once again you fail to see my point. Right now today the only nations in the world that could wage the kind of war we would like is China and the US.

You guys tell me Chinas weak so I give you some Ideas to give a plausible scenario where China is strong then you say Chinas to strong.

Look India and China are enemies and the Maoists of India do not have the strength or support to overwhelm India’s current government in a revolution.
That Idea wont fly

And artificially boosting Russia’s abilities seems cheap.

Look you want balance I gave you a balanced scenario. At any moment in the early years of the scenario I outlined China and its allies were equal to its enemies. Make a note of that allies China will have allies its not just China. China will be the main enemy but their will be others in the scenario I outlined including Iran, North Korea, Pakistan and some others not outlined yet.

Now come on Lunar read the whole paragraph not just the first part and say its an all China scenario.

the rest said:
As Europe or the US you must fight hard not fully prepared until you can muster the force to overwhelm China and its allies. Then it will be a drive across Asia into the Chinese heartlands.

What do you want a totally balanced all the way thru war?
My scenario gives a slightly stronger China and its allies early on with the west gaining the upper hand later, each side gets about half the war with some superiority. This would be more fun as the west as you would have to hold the line long enough for more allies and resources to be brought to bear. Then as the US and western allies you would have a good long war ahead of driving back the Chinese from their early gains.


I offer a balanced scenario based on real world events ( see the link in my last post ). Russia is not the threat you would like nor will it be ever, like martywolf said if we kick it back to 2011 their could atleast be some plausibility in a strong Russia but do you want to do that?
 

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I totally agree with you. Many people here seem to think people are only going to play China, but I want it to be balanced to play anybody. I personally would rather play Russia or the U.S., rather than China! We can't make a scenario where it's all of the Western Civiliazations beating up the Communists.


Where to start? China is the main adversary right? Look the scenario I outlined had China as the main enemy of the west not the only enemy just the most powerful. I want a game that’s a challenge as the west also I would be playing the west as well most of the time. China and its faction would have an advantage early on. The US and Europe would gain the upper hand only later in the game when they join together to defeat the Asians. By that time the Chinese should have a good bit of Asia under its control and the US and Europe would have a good way to go to beat back the Chinese and their allies. Each side has its time, and each side would have to plan the war well early on. Hardly is it the west beating up on the Communists.
 

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I read your whole post man, and I read that article back in May when it was written.

It is simply impossible, to have a realistic, balanced scenario. Saying that China would have the advantage for a few years isn't realistic, the US wouldn't take that long to condense their forces and the EU would join them. China wouldn't declare war in the first place because they would know that they'd get creamed, and this entire war is one giant unprobability in the first place no matter what.

North Korea and Iran were more or less part of the Chinese alliance in Martywolf and I's scenario that was designed for early agressor gains and slowly work into a victory for the Allies. You took it and eliminated their main ally, which unbalances it.

I don't see why your scenario is better, I see it as a bit more realistic in regards to Russia but completely unbalanced. We're going to have to compromise on this, I'm perfectly willing to do this if you (please!) take into account my interests.