The Ottoman Tech Group

[Peter Ebbesen]

As a muslim or eastern techgroup country, you will not fall behind the western in tech unless you choose to do so deliberately.

You receive as many monarch points as any country and more than most as you are in an excellent position to hire good advisers due to your strong economy. Your idea costs, building costs, diplomatic costs, coring costs - EVERY MONARCH POINT COST except your tech costs are the same as western. And while tech costs make up a significant part of your total expenses of monarch points over the game and are the single greatest individual post on the monarch point budget, there are lot of points left over.

What being in the muslim and eastern techgroups with their tiny techcost modifier does is force you to be a bit tougher in prioritization of what you spend your monarch points on, that is all. Given that the game is fairly generous with monarch points and the point-cost of things for those in the western techgroups, you will suffer little.

The only really good reason to westernize as the Ottoman Empire is to acquire the better western military unittypes, something that will be a consideration in MP, but surely you do not need those to be competitive in SP given the strength of the Ottoman Empire (though you might have fun westernizing). You do not need to be impious either - the choice is essentially between "more monarch points to spend on other things than tech and more manpower" and "much better conversions and fortresses", not a choice between "good techlevels" and "bad techlevels".

 

[Haresus]

As a muslim or eastern techgroup country, you will not fall behind the western in tech unless you choose to do so deliberately.

The AI playing as the Mamluks in the demo fall far behind the Ottomans. Is this just bad AI, or will the Mamluks fall behind the westerners in tech without choosing to do so deliberately?

I can agree with you on the Ottomans, they seem to be in a good position, but the other Muslims appear to have a really bad time with their tech.

 

[PiriReis]

@ Peter

Those western military unittypes are devastating against lower techs once you fall behind even a level or 2. I would say make ottoman tech 120% and improve non western unittypes. Together with the piety mechanism and an advisor you should be able to keep up better.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

@ Peter

Those western military unittypes are devastating against lower techs once you fall behind even a level or 2. I would say make ottoman tech 120% and improve non western unittypes. Together with the piety mechanism and an advisor you should be able to keep up better.

I completely agree that the better unittypes are devastating against lower techs once you fall behind by a few techlevels, especially during the early military tech levels where every increase corresponds to a large percentage-wise increase. The solution to this problem is simple for the human player: Do not fall behind by a level or two.

Given that every muslim techgroup country easily gets enough monarch points over time to keep up in tech, even if it means sacrificing some other goodies, there is really no excuse for falling behind. The AI might do so, but for a human player? No, just no!

Again, this is all singleplayer. In multiplayer you will desire to westernize come hell or high water because fighting an opponent with a brain while you have worse unittypes sucks big time regardless of techlevel.

 

[Red_warning]

I notice in my games that all of eastern Europe and Ottomans have no problem to keep up with the western tech race, especially Muscovy seems to even take the innovative lead at times.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

The AI playing as the Mamluks in the demo fall far behind the Ottomans. Is this just bad AI, or will the Mamluks fall behind the westerners in tech without choosing to do so deliberately?

In the demo, the Mamluks have the great fortune of starting with an 1, 3, 1 monarch who is 42 years of age at the start. If they are really unlucky he will stay alive most of the time. They also start with a military idea group. If the AI is really silly it will spend some of its few points on ideas in that group to unlock the third idea in that group and its first national idea in preference to a tech level. Furthermore, it starts with 0 stability like everybody else and is likely to want to increase it.

Let me just say, I am utterly unsurprised if the Mamluk AI ends up falling behind in administrative and military tech in the demo. Of course, it might be lucky and have its monarch die.

As a human player, especially one starting at the earliest start date of the game, you will have to work for it to fall behind except in the very short run after game start. (Though the later the starting date, the more differences are pronounced upon start, and the easier it will be to fall behind western tech countries as a human player, as it has always been in the EU games.)


EDIT: Perhaps I am too strident in my "you will NOT fall behind" remarks, it is just that I assume that all human players are better players than the AI and are willing to learn to ruthlessly prioritize their monarch point spending as necessary to do well.

 

[Haresus]

I just played another test game as the Ottomans. I am convinced that you are correct, Peter:

Spoiler

Spain had 10-9-10. No one ever had 10-10-10. I had ahead penalties on diplomatic and military tech. I had the mission to Annex Egypt, but decided that I did not have time to do it and mostly forgot about it. Thanks to the rivalry mechanic, I was able to annex/conquer provinces for 3DMP/province. I had no idea that it was that cheap, and it probably saved me at least a few hundred diplomatic points. I did not invest any monarch points into ideas, because the long-term bonuses were not going to be shown during the short duration of the demo, but picked the innovative idea anyway. No investing into stability, it is too expensive with the lack of religious unity. Rebellions happened, but were rare and weak. A few levels in stability later on and I would not have to deal with that.

I have one loan taken, because my level 3 advisor dug a hole in the treasury. He died young, thankfully.

 

[unmerged(37855)]

Actually this is historically true, Ottomans rejected to westernise till the 19th century, basically forced by islam radicals and Yanichari (Yanichari disbanded 1826). There were some attempts to westernise (1683 Kara Mustafa was in western expedition in Wien), again in 19th century... So, basic reason for collapse of the Ottomans was lack of will to reform