The old rebellion system needs to be reworked or removed altogether

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sepoquro

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I found it completely unrealistic that in HOI3 division-sized rebel formations rise up every few months to occupy parts of your territory. Their depiction in the game is absolutely preposterous.

First of all, there weren't as many big rebellions in occupied territories in real life as opposed to in the game. In fact, I can only recall one instance of a large-scale organized rebellion happening in WW2, which is the Warsaw Uprising. Sure, there was the French resistance movement, Soviet partisans, etc., but they were all very minor hindrances to the Germans and their main contribution to the war effort is probably restricted to providing intelligence to the Allies. Also, the rebels did not form into organized divisions and generally did not fight with conventional military tactics.

What I think they should do instead is add a chance of taking additional attrition damage when your units are inside enemy or occupied territory. That would simulate the guerilla tactics of resistance/partisan fighters much better than what they had in previous iterations of HOI.

The few instances of large scale rebellions are rare enough that they can script them as events. For example, for the Warsaw Uprising, they can add an event that triggers if Germany is at war with the Soviet Union, and the German warscore is less than a certain threshold, Polish resistance will spawn around Warsaw to try to liberate Poland before the Soviets arive.

In fact, I would be fine with it if they removed the rebellions altogether. The game's purpose is to simulate warfare on a massive scale, not dealing with petty revolts. It was very annoying in HOI3 to have to keep divisions throughout occupied lands to deal with rebels that pop up every few months and distracts from the primary objective of the game.
 
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Shade205

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Calm down Johan has answered your prayers.

He has said time and time again the whack a mole approach to hoi3 is stupid and will not be in hoi4.
 
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agus92

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Calm down Johan has answered your prayers.

He has said time and time again the whack a mole approach to hoi3 is stupid and will not be in hoi4.

Yet we saw a division-sized uprising in WWW, after the capitulation of Poland [Edit: could be some form of resistance, not necessarily an uprising].


There was a really good threat by Porkman regarding new ideas about this a few months ago.

There you go: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-cost-of-occupation.850870/

And this was an spin-off: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/military-police.849285/
 
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Vidkjaer

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Yet we saw a division-sized uprising in WWW, after the capitulation of Poland.

/

If you mean the polish forces still fighting at time 10:29 (Youtube) when the Polish capitulation dialog was shown - they were in fact there also before Poland capitulated. So i dont think it was an uprising. Maybe they were not in Polish territory when the capitulation occured? I think from the video that these polish divisions has penetrated into Slovakia?
 
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agus92

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If you mean the polish forces still fighting at time 10:29 (Youtube) when the Polish capitulation dialog was shown - they were in fact there also before Poland capitulated. So i dont think it was an uprising. Maybe they were not in Polish territory when the capitulation occured? I think from the video that these polish divisions has penetrated into Slovakia?

After rewatching it, I think the troops are not into Slovakian territory. But certainly 2 horse + 2 inf are quite strong for a rebellion, so it must be some kind of resistance, not uprising.
 

Vidkjaer

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After rewatching it, I think the troops are not into Slovakian territory. But certainly 2 horse + 2 inf are quite strong for a rebellion, so it must be some kind of resistance, not uprising.

U R right. They are still in polish territory, but then it must be a bug. I dont think it is resistance or uprising. The polish forces are surrounded. Maybe the game takes out units that are in connection with the capital. So when the nation capitulates divisions who are surrounded will not get eliminated from the game.
I think it is a bug.
 
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Heruure

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Well, in reality its not like all troops belonging to a country gave up the instant the country surrendered, its more like its up to the commander if he wants to retreat and continue fighting.
 
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LordOfWar16

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It could be an bug or simply an way of simulating some resistance refusing to capitulate. Fights could keep going weeks after the country officialy capitulated, either because the message didnt reach them or they refused to surrender.
 
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helgur

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First of all, there weren't as many big rebellions in occupied territories in real life as opposed to in the game. In fact, I can only recall one instance of a large-scale organized rebellion happening in WW2, which is the Warsaw Uprising. Sure, there was the French resistance movement, Soviet partisans, etc., but they were all very minor hindrances to the Germans and their main contribution to the war effort is probably restricted to providing intelligence to the Allies. Also, the rebels did not form into organized divisions

Read up on the partisan wars in occupied Yugoslavia. They where considered the most effective partisan groups in the war and their operations tied down huge German formations. The first large German anti partisan offensive in Yugoslavia drew in two entire divisions + elements from 5 other division + an armored brigade detachment. Later anti partisan offensives involved over 120K Axis troops to secure large regions of land the partisans had liberated.

Yugoslavia is fairly unique in terms of the size of partisan operations compared to other resistance groups in other parts of Europe, but at least it shows that it isn't entirely without merit like you claim.
 
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chopak

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The Polish forces that kept on fighting after capitulation seem to be the feature. The same thing can be seen with Belgium later in the WWW video. If we want to see how rebellions look like, i think we have to wait few more ingame years.
 

Loke

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I agree...
Unfortunatly for the gameplay of HOI, in real life as Yugoslavia shows it, the battle with partisans sometimes really was a game of whack a moll.
That is true, but it is quite boring going whack a mole...
 

HerrWeltkrieg

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Ehm well what about Yugoslavs who were fighting guerrilla style uprising the whole war against wehrmacht? Or Slovak National Uprising? Both of these were larger and more widespread than Warsaw ( just pointing out not degrading the gravity or magnitude of Warsaw uprising, btw good song by Sabaton ). French resistance was actually third largest. All of these were tying considerable resources to themselves.

missed the previous post already mentioning Yugoslavs, but the rest still holds merit, resistance needs to be implemented, one way or other :)
 
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Jaded Samurai

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Having played as the Resistance in HoI3 (in German-occupied ... Austria), I enjoyed the opportunity to play as a Government-in-Exile, and build a nationwide Resistance network, and finally trigger a (successful) national uprising. While the point about the "whack-a-mole" phenomenon of anti-guerrilla security is well taken, I'm still in favor of an ability to launch a large-scale uprising. IMO, Partisan activity shouldn't be abstracted too much.
In WWII, armies routinely planned for rear-area security, so the players should be ready to do that in Hoi4, as well.
 
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agus92

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Having played as the Resistance in HoI3 (in German-occupied ... Austria), I enjoyed the opportunity to play as a Government-in-Exile, and build a nationwide Resistance network, and finally trigger a (successful) national uprising. While the point about the "whack-a-mole" phenomenon of anti-guerrilla security is well taken, I'm still in favor of an ability to launch a large-scale uprising. IMO, Partisan activity shouldn't be abstracted too much.
In WWII, armies routinely planned for rear-area security, so the players should be ready to do that in Hoi4, as well.
There were special units to handle resistance, regular divisions were used on rare ocasions.