"The Old Order - Age of Energy" 1871 Alternate History Mod ( On Hold )

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bloomoonneptun

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Feb 25, 2013
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Update:
Attention everyone!
I have decided to scrap the old map and make a new one, but this time with the E3 map.

This means that there will be new nations, such as Indian ones, new German ones, perhaps some Italian ones and probably some in Africa as well. Now, you've all seen the map ( I would assume so ) for the world in 1871, so my question to you is: Do you have any nations in mind which you think I should add? Just note that you need to make an explanation of why they're there in this timeline in the first place.
 

Gukpa

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There is Bismarck in this alternative 1871? Can germany be unificated?
 

bloomoonneptun

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There is Bismarck in this alternative 1871? Can germany be unificated?
I don't know about Bismarck, but of course Germany can be unified. Also, since you're here, I wanted to ask if you think moving the mod to the E3 map is a good idea.
 

Gukpa

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Well, I don't like so much the E3 map (mostly because the huge number of Islands), but since this mod shows the mid-late 19th century, this wouldn't matter so much :v for me is pretty ok, also the E3 map will help to represent some minor states (like Ulm)
 

bloomoonneptun

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Feb 25, 2013
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Well, I don't like so much the E3 map (mostly because the huge number of Islands), but since this mod shows the mid-late 19th century, this wouldn't matter so much :v for me is pretty ok, also the E3 map will help to represent some minor states (like Ulm)
I don't know, I always thought the island count in the E3 map was about the same as vanilla.
And yes, one of the reasons I chose the E3 map is because not only will it add more depth to combat in smaller nations, but it will also allow smaller states like Ulm, as you said, to exist on the map.
 

EasternBloc

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Just curious, what exactly has been going on inside the USA? Your timeline is lacking events like the Nullification crisis, the Slavery debate, and notably the Civil War (not sure if this is intentional or not but hey).

Also, how far have you worked on the new map?
 

bloomoonneptun

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Feb 25, 2013
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Just curious, what exactly has been going on inside the USA? Your timeline is lacking events like the Nullification crisis, the Slavery debate, and notably the Civil War (not sure if this is intentional or not but hey).

Also, how far have you worked on the new map?
The USA is lacking because I haven't yet decided on what did and didn't happen, and I'm still not sure if I'll include the Civil War in the game years.
As for the map, I've finished South America and Europe, the rest is still being worked on. Lots more nations this time around.
 

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Wouldn't the US have advanced like the European nations? Since the British most likely hates the US, they would not share the technolog,y so they would have the spy on the British (or other europen countries) to acquire the technology. Same with all the other nations.
 

bloomoonneptun

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Feb 25, 2013
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Wouldn't the US have advanced like the European nations? Since the British most likely hates the US, they would not share the technology so they would have the spy on the British (or other europen countries) to acquire the technology. Same with all the other nations.
The United States are just as advanced as the European nations ( mostly due to French support ) and they share most of their technology with France.
 

EasternBloc

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The USA is lacking because I haven't yet decided on what did and didn't happen, and I'm still not sure if I'll include the Civil War in the game years.
As for the map, I've finished South America and Europe, the rest is still being worked on. Lots more nations this time around.

Well, let's analyze things:

First in the timeline the British-American war starts in 1824, during the Monroe presidency. Likely he gets a lot of support for his Monroe Doctrine, which probably fades away quickly as the defeats come in and he is eventually forced to move the capital (likely to Richmond) temporarily. In the election, the Democratic-Republicans may try to run a unitarian ticket under Jackson (considering he was a Hawk and John Quincy Adams' states of New York and New England are occupied.)

President Jackson tries his best, but alas the United States is forced to concede reparations. Jackson backs Monroe agreeing that the United States needs to protect it's interests, but it's faintly obvious they have failed to do so. Jackson tries to build up the American military afterwards and is pushed to side with France out of necessity. Ironically, you may have John Q Adams and his supporters biting at Jackson's heels and come 1828 they bump the "Jacksonian failure" and Adams secures a victory for the National Republican Party. Essentially you've put OTL Whigs in the shoes of the Democrats reign of power, the former gandering support from the North as a party for protectionism, federalism, limiting slavery, and other things Southerns just hate. :p

Then of course issues like the Nullification crisis and the Slavery debate are a lot more tense. What happens next I'm not quite sure, possibly a earlier civil war (tho I'll have to look into this more).

If you wish for some advice I'd be glad to help. This looks like it can be turned into a very very interesting mod. ;)
 

bloomoonneptun

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Feb 25, 2013
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Well, let's analyze things:

First in the timeline the British-American war starts in 1824, during the Monroe presidency. Likely he gets a lot of support for his Monroe Doctrine, which probably fades away quickly as the defeats come in and he is eventually forced to move the capital (likely to Richmond) temporarily. In the election, the Democratic-Republicans may try to run a unitarian ticket under Jackson (considering he was a Hawk and John Quincy Adams' states of New York and New England are occupied.)

President Jackson tries his best, but alas the United States is forced to concede reparations. Jackson backs Monroe agreeing that the United States needs to protect it's interests, but it's faintly obvious they have failed to do so. Jackson tries to build up the American military afterwards and is pushed to side with France out of necessity. Ironically, you may have John Q Adams and his supporters biting at Jackson's heels and come 1828 they bump the "Jacksonian failure" and Adams secures a victory for the National Republican Party. Essentially you've put OTL Whigs in the shoes of the Democrats reign of power, the former gandering support from the North as a party for protectionism, federalism, limiting slavery, and other things Southerns just hate. :p

Then of course issues like the Nullification crisis and the Slavery debate are a lot more tense. What happens next I'm not quite sure, possibly a earlier civil war (tho I'll have to look into this more).

If you wish for some advice I'd be glad to help. This looks like it can be turned into a very very interesting mod. ;)
Advice is always welcome, and I'd be very glad if you did give some. I'm thinking that the civil war has not yet happened ( in the 1871 start date ), just for the sake of putting it in-game, so I'd be glad to hear your opinion on what you think would've happened up until 1871.
 

EasternBloc

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Cool, so we can into civil war

Even better: you might see two, count 'em, two civil wars.

If worse goes to worse and the South secedes, likely run by John C. Calhoun who was historically against the tariffs with Jackson as the Head of State. Then, we have two outcomes.

1. South comes out victorious (possibly with British aid) the North is basically a failed state after losing half of the nation. British might be eager for round two, Mexicans look to expand, while the French withdraw what they can. I see little flavor in this scenario, honestly. It's would radically change the timeline and basically is everyone beating up the Union, and that isn't really fun.

2. (Which I feel would be much better for the timeline.) Quincy Adams decisively beats the South and reintegrates them to the Union. States-rights has taken a nasty blow as the national government is all-the-more powerful. The catch is that historically Adams believed that keeping the Union together was more important than the immediate abolition of slavery. Thus the National Republicans in all their pleasure announce a Reconstruction of the South to ensure federalism and agree not to touch slavery as they could never bring back the South after that. Overall, the South is hurt by the loss, but not completely. Jackson becomes a living martyr to the Southern Democrats and symbolically provides hope to the Dixie people who wish his legacy to live on.

Within a year of his victory, John Quincy Adams is assassinated by a states rights advocate and Vice President Henry Clay of Kentucky handles the Reconstruction. Being from below the Mason-Dixie line he implements a scaled-down version of the Adam's plan which ultimately favors rebuilding over focusing on forcing federal rule. This left the Democrats more room for a political comeback as solid Republican influence is now draining. Henry Clay wins reelection, but it is becoming troubling to the Republicans as Democrats are beginning to make progress in the North through the debate on trade. The Panic of 1837 hits and Clay is left with the blame for it. In 1840 Martin van Buren becomes President after defeating William Harrison and rolls back many of the federalist measures enacted by the Republicans and moves for a free-trade stance in America. President Van Buren is seen as the Democratic link between the North and South and worked to improve the economy. Van Buren barely wins in 1844 on the stance that he would end the Reconstruction of the South and let the Dixie return to their ante-bellum. In 1845 the South morns the death of Andrew Jackson who dies of tuberculosis. The national figureheads of both the Republicans and Democrats now both rest in peace.

Meanwhile some Republican Congressmen are furious by Van Buren's acts and address a series of issues to shake the Democratic government. The abolition faction of the Republican party is albeit a small minority and thus slavery issue is not a priority. Platforms are laid down as the Republicans wish to promote federalism, protectionism, and national unity, while the Democrats cling to states-rights, free trade, and Constitutionalism. However overtime the abolitionist faction of the Republicans grows as events such as John Brown's Raid make the news. On the opposite side Democrats become more determined to retain slavery, which they see as an extension of states-rights. Presidents between this era are mostly either Pro-Union Republicans or Pro-Slavery Democrats, which forms an unofficial bloc against Slavery-issued legislation. But slavery becomes a topic of debate in the 50s, which expands into the 60s.

Representative Abraham Lincoln becomes a Leader among Republican moderates who to seek a united Republican stance. Eventually Republicans soft stance on slavery begins to deteriorate as Northerns become more and more restless of it. In the late 60s Republicans become open advocates of Westward expansion and rapprochement towards Britain to do so as British influence blocks the United States from Mexico, while Southern Democrats are staunchly against the expansion of abolitionism into the West. In 1868 Abraham Lincoln becomes a Senator of Illinois after defeating an unknown Northern Democrat, and ganders support for Republican unity. The same year in the 1868 Presidential election Democrat Horatio Seymour defeats the radical Republican abolitionist Salmon P. Chase. Chases' threat to become President caused many Southerners to elect Democratic candidates of the Pro-slavery faction instead of Pro-Unionists. Tensions reach a boiling point in the 70s as President Horatio Seymour fails to hold together the 'Status-Quo' coalition of Pro-Union Congressmen and Southern Democrats, as Southern Democrats beg Seymour to quickly pass pro-slavery legislation. President Seymour, however, refuses to give into Southern pressure and expresses his loyalty to maintaining the Union. In 1870 Republicans are sweep into Congress but fail to reach the two-thirds majority needed to override the Democratic veto.

In the Democratic party Southern Democrats curse Seymour's incompetence to salvage the Democratic lead. Southern Congressmen take full control of the party and rally around long-time Senator of Kentucky John C. Breckinridge to fight for the Southern way of life. On the other side of the aisle, Abraham Lincoln consolidates the Republican factions in the wake of the "Southern resurgence". It is now December 11th, President Horatio Seymour prepares to enter his last year in office with virtually no Congressional support. The Southern Democrats have largely split from the Northern Democrats led by Samuel J. Tilden. As of now the Southern Democrats support Breckinridge, but are wary as Lincoln's rise in the unity Republican nomination. Will Lincoln win verses the divided Democrats? Can Breckinridge muster votes outside the South? Does Tilden have what it takes to sap the Republicans and the Southerners from victory? All candidates prepare for the 1872 Presidental election which would ultimately decide the fate of the Union.
 
Last edited:

Gukpa

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I like the idea (also I never saw a pic of the young A, Licoln before '-' ), but here another suggestion that can be implemented: since the US failed to reach the pacific according to this map:

The%20Old%20Order%20-%20Age%20of%20Energy_zps3bxiogep.png


So what if in this timeline, the manifest of the destiny claims that the USA must reach pacific by taking Mexican land, not native american one? Also since the confederates lost the first civil war (If we consider the easternbloc sugestion), some confederates may have moved to Texas (just like OTL americans moved to texas), this can give a casus belli to the US invade Mexico, and not only take Texas, but also move all the way to pacific and take Alta California, baja california, sonora and chihuaua:
4110.png
 

bloomoonneptun

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Feb 25, 2013
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Even better: you might see two, count 'em, two civil wars.

If worse goes to worse and the South secedes, likely run by John C. Calhoun who was historically against the tariffs with Jackson as the Head of State. Then, we have two outcomes.

1. South comes out victorious (possibly with British aid) the North is basically a failed state after losing half of the nation. British might be eager for round two, Mexicans look to expand, while the French withdraw what they can. I see little flavor in this scenario, honestly. It's would radically change the timeline and basically is everyone beating up the Union, and that isn't really fun.

2. (Which I feel would be much better for the timeline.) Quincy Adams decisively beats the South and reintegrates them to the Union. States-rights has taken a nasty blow as the national government is all-the-more powerful. The catch is that historically Adams believed that keeping the Union together was more important than the immediate abolition of slavery. Thus the National Republicans in all their pleasure announce a Reconstruction of the South to ensure federalism and agree not to touch slavery as they could never bring back the South after that. Overall, the South is hurt by the loss, but not completely. Jackson becomes a living martyr to the Southern Democrats and symbolically provides hope to the Dixie people who wish his legacy to live on.

Within a year of his victory, John Quincy Adams is assassinated by a states rights advocate and Vice President Henry Clay of Kentucky handles the Reconstruction. Being from below the Mason-Dixie line he implements a scaled-down version of the Adam's plan which ultimately favors rebuilding over focusing on forcing federal rule. This left the Democrats more room for a political comeback as solid Republican influence is now draining. Henry Clay wins reelection, but it is becoming troubling to the Republicans as Democrats are beginning to make progress in the North through the debate on trade. The Panic of 1837 hits and Clay is left with the blame for it. In 1840 Martin van Buren becomes President after defeating William Harrison and rolls back many of the federalist measures enacted by the Republicans and moves for a free-trade stance in America. President Van Buren is seen as the Democratic link between the North and South and worked to improve the economy. Van Buren barely wins in 1844 on the stance that he would end the Reconstruction of the South and let the Dixie return to their ante-bellum. In 1845 the South morns the death of Andrew Jackson who dies of tuberculosis. The national figureheads of both the Republicans and Democrats now both rest in peace.

Meanwhile some Republican Congressmen are furious by Van Buren's acts and address a series of issues to shake the Democratic government. The abolition faction of the Republican party is albeit a small minority and thus slavery issue is not a priority. Platforms are laid down as the Republicans wish to promote federalism, protectionism, and national unity, while the Democrats cling to states-rights, free trade, and Constitutionalism. However overtime the abolitionist faction of the Republicans grows as events such as John Brown's Raid make the news. On the opposite side Democrats become more determined to retain slavery, which they see as an extension of states-rights. Presidents between this era are mostly either Pro-Union Republicans or Pro-Slavery Democrats, which forms an unofficial bloc against Slavery-issued legislation. But slavery becomes a topic of debate in the 50s, which expands into the 60s.

Representative Abraham Lincoln becomes a Leader among Republican moderates who to seek a united Republican stance. Eventually Republicans soft stance on slavery begins to deteriorate as Northerns become more and more restless of it. In the late 60s Republicans become open advocates of Westward expansion and rapprochement towards Britain to do so as British influence blocks the United States from Mexico, while Southern Democrats are staunchly against the expansion of abolitionism into the West. In 1868 Abraham Lincoln becomes a Senator of Illinois after defeating an unknown Northern Democrat, and ganders support for Republican unity. The same year in the 1868 Presidential election Democrat Horatio Seymour defeats the radical Republican abolitionist Salmon P. Chase. Chases' threat to become President caused many Southerners to elect Democratic candidates of the Pro-slavery faction instead of Pro-Unionists. Tensions reach a boiling point in the 70s as President Horatio Seymour fails to hold together the 'Status-Quo' coalition of Pro-Union Congressmen and Southern Democrats, as Southern Democrats beg Seymour to quickly pass pro-slavery legislation. President Seymour, however, refuses to give into Southern pressure and expresses his loyalty to maintaining the Union. In 1870 Republicans are sweep into Congress but fail to reach the two-thirds majority needed to override the Democratic veto.

In the Democratic party Southern Democrats curse Seymour's incompetence to salvage the Democratic lead. Southern Congressmen take full control of the party and rally around long-time Senator of Kentucky John C. Breckinridge to fight for the Southern way of life. On the other side of the aisle, Abraham Lincoln consolidates the Republican factions in the wake of the "Southern resurgence". It is now December 11th, President Horatio Seymour prepares to enter his last year in office with virtually no Congressional support. The Southern Democrats have largely split from the Northern Democrats led by Samuel J. Tilden. As of now the Southern Democrats support Breckinridge, but are wary as Lincoln's rise in the unity Republican nomination. Will Lincoln win verses the divided Democrats? Can Breckinridge muster votes outside the South? Does Tilden have what it takes to sap the Republicans and the Southerners from victory? All candidates prepare for the 1872 Presidental election which would ultimately decide the fate of the Union.
I think I'll go with idea number one... just kidding. I actually think I might do it more or less like you said, with some minor adjustments.
If you have any more about any nation in fact, feel free to tell me.
 

bloomoonneptun

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Feb 25, 2013
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I like the idea (also I never saw a pic of the young A, Licoln before '-' ), but here another suggestion that can be implemented: since the US failed to reach the pacific according to this map:

The%20Old%20Order%20-%20Age%20of%20Energy_zps3bxiogep.png


So what if in this timeline, the manifest of the destiny claims that the USA must reach pacific by taking Mexican land, not native american one? Also since the confederates lost the first civil war (If we consider the easternbloc sugestion), some confederates may have moved to Texas (just like OTL americans moved to texas), this can give a casus belli to the US invade Mexico, and not only take Texas, but also move all the way to pacific and take Alta California, baja california, sonora and chihuaua:
4110.png
Mexico is protected by the British, so I don't the US would dare attack them ( at least not before the start of the game, of course ). As for there being confederates in Texas, and in other parts of Mexico, I think that would work ( not sure how it would affect the game yet ).
 

EasternBloc

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I think I'll go with idea number one... just kidding. I actually think I might do it more or less like you said, with some minor adjustments.
If you have any more about any nation in fact, feel free to tell me.

Of course, it's your mod not mine. :)

I'll be happy to give more advice based on your vision of the timeline. I might be able to provide some basic events as well.
 

bloomoonneptun

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Update: Screenshots of the new map will be out soon

Of course, it's your mod not mine. :)

I'll be happy to give more advice based on your vision of the timeline. I might be able to provide some basic events as well.
That'd be great, any help is always appreciated.
 

Gukpa

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What about something like "The Confederate revolution" happening in Mexico? Just like the OTL Texan revolution, USA can supply the rebels and then anschluss them :3
 
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