the north africa battle scenario

[Montemurro]

I really don't see the disagreement here, I'm just trying to point out to some people that you can't and shouldn't hide from this poor military history.

- MVSN

Personally what I strive to do with my posts regarding Italy is to give a different perspective. If someone says “Italy in WW2” then I want people to think of more than all the Italian prisoners captured in the beginning of the war in North Africa, the defeat at the hands of the Greeks, and the armistice with the Allies in 1943. I.e. what happened in the time between these events? Keren, Bir El Gobi, Aslagh Ridge etc. might only be lights in the darkness compared to the German/Japanese conquests, but they should nonetheless be remembered as proof that the Italians weren’t all about failure and surrenders.

Edit: And if people would stop blaming Italy for Germany's defeat and instead look at the faulty German planning of Barbarossa, then I would be dancing naked in the streets.

 

[mvsnconsolegene]

Edit: And if people would stop blaming Italy for Germany's defeat and instead look at the faulty German planning of Barbarossa, then I would be dancing naked in the streets.

Well, Germany during WW2 had perfected the art of scapegoating.

Personally, I am interested in Italy during 1920 to 1938.

From a military point of view, they had some success stories before 1914.

- MVSN

 

[unmerged(11803)]

I didn't know about those things Stefano says, about italians units fighting well, I guess it has to do with history is written by the winners. I heard german WW2 veterans saying italian troops were good, but they had bad leaders and bad equipment.

But performed better under german command, don't know if that's true?

 

[unmerged(36280)]

Like Albania.

what do you mean pacifist descendant of vikings.

 

[Pkunzipper]

From a military point of view, they had some success stories before 1914.- MVSN

Don't like to discuss every single battle won or lost by italians, but since this is another thing rarely said in history books... Didn't Italy win WWI?

Most of the people knows only starting italian defeats that lead to the disaster of Caporetto... but after Italy reorganized its army, it won a lot of very important battles. When Entente and Central Powers signed the armistice Austrian army didn't existed anymore... There were no Austrian troops between italian divisions and Vienna!

BTW I agree with you about Italian disastrous performances in WW2.

 

[mvsnconsolegene]

Don't like to discuss every single battle won or lost by italians, but since this is another thing rarely said in history books... Didn't Italy win WWI?

Most of the people knows only starting italian defeats that lead to the disaster of Caporetto... but after Italy reorganized its army, it won a lot of very important battles. When Entente and Central Powers signed the armistice Austrian army didn't existed anymore... There were no Austrian troops between italian divisions and Vienna!

BTW I agree with you about Italian disastrous performances in WW2.

They were on the winning side of ww1, which was won through the sheer determination of the average Italian soldier who HATED the Austrians.

- MVSN

 

[unmerged(17570)]

to be honest they were side swtiching wheeler dealers, well played to them, they sat on the fence nd it paid off, little boy musolini cuda learnd from that instead of startin on every1 and gettin hung upside down

 

[unmerged(27537)]

They were on the winning side of ww1, which was won through the sheer determination of the average Italian soldier who HATED the Austrians.

- MVSN

IMO in WWI there was not much fighting going on between Austria and Italy, other than building up massice barbed wire fences over alpine glaciers and shelling the mountains on the enemies side hoping to kill some enemies.
IIRC the austrians had been digging a tunnel to plant a mine under a italian fort for 3 1/2 years and detonated it 1 week before the end of the war, killing several hundred italians.

 

[unmerged(17570)]

IMO in WWI there was not much fighting going on between Austria and Italy, other than building up massice barbed wire fences over alpine glaciers and shelling the mountains on the enemies side hoping to kill some enemies.
IIRC the austrians had been digging a tunnel to plant a mine under a italian fort for 3 1/2 years and detonated it 1 week before the end of the war, killing several hundred italians.

lol if i remember correctly, you were there, did we plant that mine or not, i cant remember?

 

[unmerged(27537)]

that is another story...

 

[unmerged(33990)]

Speaking about Italian equipment... didn't they have SP-artillery before the germans?

 

[unmerged(35776)]

this thread is spinning so widly off topic that im afraid to post

well not -wildly- in "getting kicked to the OT forums wildly", but an on topic kind of off topic? Sorry im not making any sense, its a common complaint i get

 

[unmerged(33990)]

this thread is spinning so widly off topic that im afraid to post

Derailment is the fate of all threads. So we must enjoy it and use it for our good.

 

[unmerged(35776)]

Derailment is the fate of all threads. So we must enjoy it and use it for our good.

Otherwise known as Evolution, which I didnt apparently recognize until now . Sigh, one should think before one posts, and Im not

 

[unmerged(21069)]

Speaking about Italian equipment... didn't they have SP-artillery before the germans?

no, i don't think they did. but their self propelled guns, the Semovente 75 is generally considered superior to the Stug (it was for the most part equivalent but it had a lower profile, among other things) and it doubled as artillery

 

[mvsnconsolegene]

no, i don't think they did. but their self propelled guns, the Semovente 75 is generally considered superior to the Stug (it was for the most part equivalent but it had a lower profile, among other things) and it doubled as artillery

How many did they build though?

- MVSN

 

[mvsnconsolegene]

IMO in WWI there was not much fighting going on between Austria and Italy, other than building up massice barbed wire fences over alpine glaciers and shelling the mountains on the enemies side hoping to kill some enemies.
IIRC the austrians had been digging a tunnel to plant a mine under a italian fort for 3 1/2 years and detonated it 1 week before the end of the war, killing several hundred italians.

Wasn't digging trenches and lobbing mortars at the enemy the entire first world war :rofl: ?

The Italians AND Austrians lost many men in offensives there; it is something that is kinda hard to question.

Near the end of the war, the Germans (notice I didn't say Austrians?) achieved a breakthrough in Italy after they were able to divert fresh troops from other fronts that were finishing up. This offensive almost saw the complete collapse of the Italian Army and Government. Yet this offensive didn't last long and was reversed for a number of reasons.

- MVSN

 

[Montemurro]

How many did they build though?

- MVSN

222 of the ones with the 75/18 gun according to the Comando Supremo web site.

 

[unmerged(27537)]

Wasn't digging trenches and lobbing mortars at the enemy the entire first world war :rofl: ?

now that you say it

 

[mvsnconsolegene]

222 of the ones with the 75/18 gun according to the Comando Supremo web site.

I haven't been on that site for ages man, I used to post there a year or so ago. But I've had to narrow down the forums I post on to two.

- MVSN