esbenmf said:
Rollon le Marcheur (as we name he in french) should have an norvegian culture...
But two hundred years latters, Guillaume le conquérant, like all normandy nobility of it's time, was clearly of french culture.
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Rollon le Marcheur (as we name he in french) should have an norvegian culture...
But two hundred years latters, Guillaume le conquérant, like all normandy nobility of it's time, was clearly of french culture.
Captain Frakas said:
Because I don't want to be the one fried on low-burning flame and branded with searing iron by the pro-Norman camp for destroying their favourite guys.
Seriously, it is the kind of thing like calling the Roman Empire Byzantine. It will just feel wrong for so many to make it 'more accurate'.
Are you suggesting that the bastard is a frank and should have his culture changed? :|
My good sir, are you saying the byzantines were not the roman empire?Byakhiam said:Because I don't want to be the one fried on low-burning flame and branded with searing iron by the pro-Norman camp for destroying their favourite guys.
Seriously, it is the kind of thing like calling the Roman Empire Byzantine. It will just feel wrong for so many to make it 'more accurate'.
Iron_Skull said:My good sir, are you saying the byzantines were not the roman empire?
No, I am saying that the Byzantines did not call themselves that.
Then your wrong. Because they did.Byakhiam said:No, I am saying that the Byzantines did not call themselves that.
Veldmaarschalk said:But we don't have French culture, we have Frankish culture
Quite the same as the franks of the XI-XV th century aren't the frank tribes of the Vth century, but the inhabitants of the frankish gaul. (or at least of langue d'oil).
Byakhiam said:Whatever, off-topic.
Just to quickly finish this, the reason naming them the Roman Empire wouldn't make sense is because everyone knows them as the byzantines. Now why cant we make ''Italian norman'' and then just normal norman? If there's only a certain amount of cultures were allowed...well johan can fix that correct?
Well, William, Guillaume, Wilhelm, Willem or whatever, might have been frankish/french, my personal opinion is to keep the Norman culture in the game.
The Normans as a people had a great infleunce on European medieval history, they may not have been culturally very different from the other Franks/French but they deserve to be named separately, the majority of the historians talk about the Norman invasion of England or the Norman kingdom of Sicily, almost nobody ever talks about the Frankish/French invasion of England or the Frankish/French kingdom of Sicily.
I know the same argument could be said about the Angevin , but just keep the Norman culture in the game. Since I really don't know a other, important culture, that should be in the game instead of them. Especially not since Byakhiam is planning on adding cultures (Serbian, Croatian and so on) in patch 1.06
The Normans as a people had a great infleunce on European medieval history, they may not have been culturally very different from the other Franks/French but they deserve to be named separately, the majority of the historians talk about the Norman invasion of England or the Norman kingdom of Sicily, almost nobody ever talks about the Frankish/French invasion of England or the Frankish/French kingdom of Sicily.
I know the same argument could be said about the Angevin
, but just keep the Norman culture in the game. Since I really don't know a other, important culture, that should be in the game instead of them. Especially not since Byakhiam is planning on adding cultures (Serbian, Croatian and so on) in patch 1.06
Norman culture should be in CK. If you read Norman chroniclers, like Ordericus Vitalis, they make clear distinction between French and Normans. Norman chroniclers call Normans as one nation and Franks as another nation.
Veldmaarschalk said:
IMO, It's because historian talk about the geographical/political of the dukedom of Normandy not because of a cultural fact...
Sure, norman culture wasn't exactly the same as francillian (people of Îsle-de-France) culture... but if we accept Norman culture, all area of france should have it's own
.
Captain Frakas said:IMO, It's because historian talk about the geographical/political of the dukedom of Normandy not because of a cultural fact...
Sure, norman culture wasn't exactly the same as francillian (people of Îsle-de-France) culture... but if we accept Norman culture, all area of france should have it's own
Just like almost every region/duchy on the map.
I am not against removing norman culture, but since I don't know of any culture that should come in its place, just leave it as it is.
I bet if they said lets keep it you would've insisted on changing it Veld.. You are anthithesis of existance
having at least 1-2 counties with norman culture wont hurt anyone
France is already divided with that occitan culture and the frankish itself. It won't hurt if Normans have their own culture. If you read the article i posted above you'd see that they kept true to themselves and customs although adopiting much - they still were warmongers like their scandinavian ancestors for one thing.
having at least 1-2 counties with norman culture wont hurt anyone
Riddermark said:
Yep, but in this case, Norman of Normandy enter in the Frankish area...
If we want Norman, we should also have Orléanais, Angevin, Berrichon, Bourbonnais, Bourguignon, Franc-Comtois, Gallo, Poitevin, Santongeais, Lorrain, Landais, Béarnais, Ariégeois, Aranese, Bas-Languedocien, Languedocien Moyen, Haut-Languedocien, Guyennais, Haut-Limousin, Bas-Limousin, Ponthieu, Vimeu, Hainaut, Artois, Lillois, Boulonnais, Santerre, Calaisis, Cambresis, Vermandois, Amienois, Transalpin, Niçard, Maritime Provençal, Gavot, Rhodanien, Dauphinois.
Riddermark said:
I've read it, but at the scale of CK, I don't think that they should have their own culture...
Captain Frakas said:Yep, but in this case, Norman of Normandy enter in the Frankish area...
If we want Norman, we should also have Orléanais, Angevin, Berrichon, Bourbonnais, Bourguignon, Franc-Comtois, Gallo, Poitevin, Santongeais, Lorrain, Landais, Béarnais, Ariégeois, Aranese, Bas-Languedocien, Languedocien Moyen, Haut-Languedocien, Guyennais, Haut-Limousin, Bas-Limousin, Ponthieu, Vimeu, Hainaut, Artois, Lillois, Boulonnais, Santerre, Calaisis, Cambresis, Vermandois, Amienois, Transalpin, Niçard, Maritime Provençal, Gavot, Rhodanien, Dauphinois.
I've read it, but at the scale of CK, I don't think that they should have their own culture...
Other cultures you mentioned were different French subcultures. Norman culture was more than just a French subculture. Norman culture had it's own cultural identity. As I said in earlier post Normans saw French as one nation and Normans as a different nation. Normans were proud of their own separate and Northern identity. Besides it was Normans not French who conquered England and Sicily. So Norman culture flourished also in non-French areas. Read Norman litterature and see how Normans saw themselves, claiming to medieval Norman that he is a French is like claiming to Croat that he is a Serb.
I believe this is a sensitive topic then - then again think for gameplay reasons if you can't agree for historical ones - one more option for the player - to play and spread that culture.
And yes by any means I dont find Norman being subculture - you give examples of all those cultures - and I personally have never heard of them mentioned in any signifacant historical events (actually i never heard of them as seperate cultures).
And yes by any means I dont find Norman being subculture - you give examples of all those cultures - and I personally have never heard of them mentioned in any signifacant historical events (actually i never heard of them as seperate cultures).