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Lord Ederon

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Originally posted by Petrarca
I have referred to the Spanish proclamation of Saxony as a French lackey as the latest in the series of insults coming from Iberia.
We have never (as I remeber) poclaimed Saxony as a French lockey. French must be mistaken. Maybe Portugalese diplomats did so, but Spain not.

The position of the French Crown is that the Treaty of Venice, though it will be honored, shall shortly become irrelevant to the current political situation. It would be hard to imagine Genoa remaining in the French sphere of influence with such independent leadership being show.

It is the position of the Crown that the treaty needs to be superseded by another that accounts for the changed political situation.
Now, only Austria hasn't expressed their attitude to renewal of Treaty of Veneto. If they agree, we should state its new shape shorlty during or after conference in Madrid.

Ederon
Advisor of queen and king of Spain

Madrid, 1499 (Turn 8)
 
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Austria wants to note that Venice has been silent as well, though we hardly think that they will oppose it. For our part, we support the new treaty in theory, though we want to see a draft of it before we sign on. We have just been informed that His Holiness has proposed a version at the conference of Madrid. We will post any comments there shortly.
 

Petrarca

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Originally posted by Lord Ederon
We have never (as I remeber) poclaimed Saxony as a French lockey. French must be mistaken. Maybe Portugalese diplomats did so, but Spain not.

Ederon
Advisor of queen and king of Spain

Madrid, 1499 (Turn 8)
My mistake. Portugal, handmaiden of Spain, made the offending remark.
 

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First, remark out of game diplomacy.

I want to apologies to all if my remark offended someone. It was never my intention. It was all part of diplomacy in our game after all. I suppose such a language would be used in real-world diplomacy. But if someone finds it unacceptable, I am sorry for bringing it in and will not use it again.
The reason why I said at all? When I am friendly with someone I just find it hard to say “no” when he asks something form me. So, I thought Portugal should have somewhat tensed relationship with Saxony and France if she want to continue her tough negotiations regarding maps. Basically, I wanted to create a more realistic situation.
French remark about Portugal being “handmaiden of Spain” I on the other hand find to be a perfect example of nice and eloquent diplomacy, completely acceptable and amusing to me. Once again I must congratulate Petrarca on his English: “lackey” and “handmaiden” are so much more appropriate words in that context than my “vassal”.
But, as I said before, if this kind of language is unacceptable to anyone I sincerely apologies and will newer use it again.

And now official diplomatic ansver to France:D

Originally posted by Petrarca
My mistake. Portugal, handmaiden of Spain, made the offending remark.

On Owens remark:
Originally posted by Owen

-----------
Barnius. I won't say that your English is better than my Portugese, though it is true. I will say that your English is about as good as my English, especially given the number of typing mistakes I make. If I don't understand something, I will say, but I don't it expect it to happen often.

Portugal said:
Originally posted by Barnius

My remark about my language was meant only for diplomatic purposes, so that I could say I misinterpreted something (I don’t remember exactly what I meant), as you probably guessed. But, don’t diplomats do such things?

Hopefully I managed to say all that clear enough. The summary is I enjoy the game, I enjoy my diplomatic duels with Saxony (or is it with France, for who her vassal Saxony is doing great job as her attorney – I just couldn’t resist the temptation, if king of Saxony is offended this particular diplomat will be severely punished – exile to a villa on Azores)...

Does that sound like official diplomatic note exchanged between two ambassadors? I think not. It was just a joke heard in the lobbies between meetings. Later, when it came to representative of Saxony, it arose to a higher level until in the end a formal apology in the name of King of Portugal was offered to the King of Saxony and generously accepted, for which we are very grateful.

But a brief French note about Portugal being a handmaiden of Spain can’t but be interpreted as a direct insult to King of Portugal in the presence of Spanish representative.
And that is not all. French representatives very often and for a long time seem to make one particular mistake: they talk about certain “Iberians”. We cannot but to ask is it an intentional insult to Portuguese citizens, implying Portugal is not an independent state, or perhaps France finds all her southern neighbors unimportant to such extent that she can’t remember names of four countries?

Anyway, as things are developing now, regretfully I have to inform representative of France that I have strict orders from his majesty King of Portugal this matter has the highest priority in our relations. All other questions must be put on hold until this issue is settled satisfactory, in the way Saxony and Portugal settled their misunderstandings. Although I know there are more important questions for well-being of our two countries than personal pride and ego of two monarchs, in this situation and with current his majesty’s really bad mood I find it hard to bend his orders (as usually;) ).

Barnius, Duke of Lisboa
 

cccino

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I find it thoroughly irritating that all nations continuously find tiny little insults in things others have said; rant and whine until they receive a long winded apology; then apologise themselves for overreacting, but...; then others require an apology for the 'but...'.

I wish all nations to accept that all banter is done without ill will and then just shut up about it.

His Holiness has spoken. And possibly spoken "bah!"




--------
[EDIT:] apologising is infectious, isn't it! I've just found myself doing it on another thread
 
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Petrarca

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As His Holiness has suggested, we shall drop our rightful grievances, all the more aggravated by the Portuguese stinginess in distributing their maps that could be better used to spread the Catholic faith. *starts sniffling and crying at the thought of all the unsaved heathens*

As for other matters, consider the following hypothetical situation put forth by our experts at Saint-Cyr, whereby France shall greatly boost the Portuguese treasury and declare war on Algiers with the intent of remaining at war until Portugal recovers her lost territories. What would then be considered honorable compensation to the French Crown for these efforts, perhaps in terms of maps to save the unwashed heathens?
 

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Originally posted by Petrarca
As His Holiness has suggested, we shall drop our rightful grievances, all the more aggravated by the Portuguese stinginess in distributing their maps that could be better used to spread the Catholic faith. *starts sniffling and crying at the thought of all the unsaved heathens*

As for other matters, consider the following hypothetical situation put forth by our experts at Saint-Cyr, whereby France shall greatly boost the Portuguese treasury and declare war on Algiers with the intent of remaining at war until Portugal recovers her lost territories. What would then be considered honorable compensation to the French Crown for these efforts, perhaps in terms of maps to save the unwashed heathens?

A low rank diplomat received French and Papal notes in Lisboa Royal court, since Duke of Lisboa is attending Madrid conference.
His Majesty King of Portugal was very annoyed when he heard another news come from France and decided he will leave the matter to capable hands of his advisor in Madrid. Your suggestions will be sent to Madrid and hopefully Duke of Lisboa and your representatives will clarify the situation there.

Antonio Da Silva, first rank clerk in the foreign affairs office

--------------
I prefer to continue this talks in Madrid Conference forum if it's OK by you.
 

Filou

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Scotland 1509

Hard times are upon the Scotish people.
We thought we could entertain ourselves with the King of England, but it seems that unAIding elements where present in the English's entourage.
We are prepare to forgive any past offenseces if the King is willing to call off his troops.
Otherwise, we shall be obliged to call upon the OPEC treaty to put the king back in his place.

And in this time of trouble, we are quite shocked to hear about the Ottoman's advance in the lands of Christianity.
The people of Scotland now know what it feels to be close to be pushed out in the seas, and strongly wishes that this does not come close to happen to the whole of the Christian World at the hand of the infidels.
We hope that the World of central Europe will unite around the beseiged Hungarian Crown to help her fight off these invaders.
 

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Libaration of Algrave and Azores

Duke of Lisboa noticed our Christian friends from France liberated Portuguese provinces Algrave and Azores from Algiers tyranny. Although very busy with his personal finances, he appointed a team of economists to evaluate possible benefits from those two provinces and analyze possible French offers regarding exchange of provinces, money, maps or any other resources.

The instruction given by Duke of Lisboa is that all provinces are to be evaluated on economic and only economic value, because money is the only way all interests can be mutually compared. Surely, France will be additionally compensated for her possible losses and awarded for her favors, but all those categories have to be expressed in money through some kind of economical evaluation.
 

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First Large Map Auction

Duke of Lisboa wishes to announce this turn a large auction for Portuguese maps will take place. Portugal is a small country in need for fresh capital and therefore forced to open part of her map archives to other countries. Soon a few sets of those maps will be offered for sale. The main criteria will be amount of money offered in exchange for some maps, but Portugal withholds the right to take into account some other matters, like for example our foreign policy and our future goals regarding colonial development.
 

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Re: Libaration of Algrave and Azores

I really must remember to gain some remittance for claiming sole defender of the faith.

I pray that the English, Austrians, and Genoans shall cease the war against France, caused by Bavaria's legitimate fears of possible aggression by certain Danubian states.

Meanwhile, I reiterate in general terms the French position- that Portuguese maps and possibly even minor colonies should be ceded to France in exchange for His Serene Majesty Francois ceding Algarve and the isles of the Azores to Portugal.
 

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It seems that this has been a extremely violent decade in European politics.

I notice that I am currently at war with, among others, Austria, England and Scotland.

The first two are due to war declared by the Count of Bavaria. I'm sure you understand that my vassal felt that he would be next to suffer Austrian aggression, and decided to strike first. Given the recent show of good intentions by Austria (OOC: relations change last turn), I am more than happy to negotiate peace with the Austrian alliance. Given that Austria currently only control two provinces, of which one is nearing the end of a lengthy siege, what terms would the Austrian ambassador think fair to reach peace with Saxony? I would assume this would also bring the needed peace with the King of England.

I'm sure you understand that I cannot speak for the King of France, and that the Duc de Guise will carry out his own negotiations with Austria, and perhaps also with Genoa.

As for the war declared by Mecklenburg, this is in its infancy, and the Mecklenburg ambassador seems particularly stubborn. Perhaps the path of peace could be smoothed by Scotland making a diplomatic withdrawal?

Yours

Friedrich of Saxony
 

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As announced before, I pray that the war started by Bavaria's paranoia should soon be ended through negotiation. I also intend to quietly exit the war with Mecklemburg and, if they so wish, raise relations with Scotland in preparation for their joining of the Occidental Pact of European Countries.

Meanwhile, I have hopes that Portugal will buy Algarve and the Azores, and that perhaps England would not mind France paying a king's ransom for one of the English provinces on the Continent.
 

Asaris

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Interesting how a declaration of war by some rebellious provinces of the Hapsburg domain is somehow our fault. In any case, we will be negotiating peace directly with the Bavarians.
 

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Re: Re: Libaration of Algrave and Azores

Originally posted by Petrarca
...Meanwhile, I reiterate in general terms the French position- that Portuguese maps and possibly even minor colonies should be ceded to France in exchange for His Serene Majesty Francois ceding Algarve and the isles of the Azores to Portugal.

Minor colonies available for trade right now are only NW African cities of Nouakchott and Dakar. Along with those two provinces a treading post in Nouadibuh is available, to complete French possessions in this part of the world.
We are convinced His Majesty King of France will find this kind of compensation more than generous for his Christian duty he performed by liberating two European provinces from Algiers terror. Moreover, he is already awarded by one Algiers and one Tunisian province. After all, a good Christian should seek immortal and eternal gratitude and glory in heavens, rather than fall into the trap of lust and greediness on the Earth.:cool:
 

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Velue of maps and posessions

Let’s try to establish some criteria for the evaluation of sea zone maps, province maps and developed cities, colonies or treading posts. Here are some principles and suggestions, and feedback is welcomed.

Sea zone maps:
  • Since majority of nation will be included in Free Sea Zone Map Exchange Project, sea zones have only 30 years value, before they become public information
  • For exploration of a sea zone the country has to have explorers willing to risk their life and money – countries that have them can hope they will eventually draw their own maps, but countries that are not likely to get explorers have to rely on efforts of other countries
  • Speed in colonization is very important, as we all know, and 30 years of advance is definitely worth some money
  • Portugal will sell her sea zone maps for the price of 15 d per sea zone (+inflation and transfer fee)
Province maps:
  • For exploration of land the country has to have explorers or conquistadors willing to risk their life and money – countries that have them can hope they will eventually draw their own maps, but countries that are not likely to get them have to rely on efforts of other countries
  • Speed in colonization is very important, as we all know
  • Development of a city costs approximately 600 d. Portugal suggests the basic price of province maps to be one third of it – 200 d per province (+inflation and transfer fee)
  • This basic price can be lover or higher, depending on (for example) the interest for the particular area, possibility that other country will sooner or later discover the same land and offer it for lower price, exclusivity of rights on the maps, future income from the particular province, the strategic value for some countries…
  • Taking all that (and perhaps some other facts I couldn’t remember right now) into account, the price of a province map can be a lot lower or higher than basic price and will probably be different for different countries. For example, if France would like to buy exclusive rights on Chesapeake maps, that would have to cost her a lot, because surely England and some other countries would like to have it too. But the same maps would be a lot cheaper for Pope, because he would basically get only this province, and probably wouldn’t ask for exclusivity. With no navy and weak armies Pope couldn’t use Chesapeake as a strategic point for further colonization in North America.
Developed cities, colonies and treading posts:
  • Map of a province (look above)
  • Money invested in development (average 80 per colony level, average 10 per TP level, or more accurate values if known, cities counts as level 8 colonies)
  • Future income (what it means for the current owner and the new owner)
  • Strategic position (what it means for the current owner and the new owner)

As I said, all comments are welcomed.:p
 

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For sale

Portuguese territories for sale this turn:
  • city of Nouakchott, NW Africa
  • city of Dakar, W Africa
  • treading post in Nouadibuh
France has the rights to buy those territories first in exchange for former Portuguese city of Algrave and colony on the Azores.

Offers from other countries can be sent to PM or announced publicly in the forum, trying to take into account the facts I suggested in the previous post.

Portuguese province maps for sale this turn:
  1. North American provinces: Bas St-Laurent, Bangor, Chesapeake, Wabana, Placentia, Belle Isle
  2. Caribbean and near by South American provinces still not owned by Spain: Bayou, Havana, Tortuga, Curacao, Yaraguay, Tocuvo, Cartagena, Caribe, Surinam
  3. Caribbean and near by South American provinces already owned by Spain: please find out which are they using Spanish Map Exchange Tool:p
    [/list=1]
    Points 1and 3 are offered on the free market. Portugal withholds the right to choose not the highest bid if it is in her best interest. Portugal withholds the right to offer additional territory to some countries.

    Special offer: Spain can get the exclusive rights on point 2 (9 valuable provinces) for Sardinia, The Baleares, The Canary Islands and Malta. In fact, perhaps I am asking a bit too much. I am ready to offer some money too. But on the other hand, as I see, England is already knocking on the Caribbean door…:D
 

Filou

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Scotland 1519

His Royalship of Scotland would be very pleased to withdraw from the war against the kings of Saxony and France. We are inclined to raised relations with both Kings,and reengage in Rolay Matrimony with Saxony. If France would be so kind to accept the same offer of Rayal Marriage, war could possibly be avoided between our nations.

A time of prolongued peace is needed by the Scotish Crown.

It as been some time that I have not heard from the English King.
Although I have confidence in the peaseants and remaining nobility of the Highlands of returning to the Scotish realm, I would still like to discuss the situation with him.