The Noble Lives: A Chronicle of the Kingdom of Castile

[unmerged(6777)]

Ahhh...yes it's time for Toledo to step up and begin to manage the affairs of the kingdom since the King is obviously so loathed to do so. While this might incur the wrath - or at least mild discontent - of the other Duques, I think it's time that a person with some sort of spine took control of the nation once more...and Toledo (and Carlos) are just the men for the job.

How wonderful that the Concordat has finally come to an end - although I have a sneaky suspicion that Francois will not be overly happy with the way in which it was dissolved and there may be some half-hearted (or otherwise) attempts to punish Castile for its inaction.

I just thought I'd say, as a loyal reader, that I understand completely that there are times when RL pressures weigh more heavily on an author - or when there is a dry spell with his muse - and I, for one, am perfectly prepared to wait patiently while you weather the storm.

I am going to make so bold as to offer a comment of a slightly less "enthusiastic" nature, which I hope you'll take in the spirit that it is intended:

Perhaps it's just me, but for some reason I have not been experiencing the same level of interest or excitement with the ongoing exploits of Herr Kurtz and segnor Francesco. I'm not really sure why that is...perhaps it's simply that I haven't got a clear idea of his purpose in the overall story beyond the introduction of a colonial side to Castile's activities; or perhaps there was an element that I missed earlier that is detracting from his part in the novel at this juncture. I just don't find myself looking forward to his side of the story nearly as much as I do to Juan/Carlos/Toledo's actions.

Does anyone else share this feeling, or can anyone point out what I'm missing?

I do want to reitterate, though, that I find the whole body of work to be utterly absorbing. I think it's simply a case that I am just not "getting" something, or that I'm missing some crucial, important element that I'm going to kick myself for later.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Castellon]

Mr T.
I think it is an Ode to Apocalypse now.
And if you read my comment in the middle of the last page, you will see you are not alone.
I agree though that this is a great work and story as a whole.

 

[Secret Master]

Some notes:

Perhaps it's just me, but for some reason I have not been experiencing the same level of interest or excitement with the ongoing exploits of Herr Kurtz and segnor Francesco. I'm not really sure why that is...perhaps it's simply that I haven't got a clear idea of his purpose in the overall story beyond the introduction of a colonial side to Castile's activities; or perhaps there was an element that I missed earlier that is detracting from his part in the novel at this juncture.

Mr T.
I think it is an Ode to Apocalypse now.

Ahh yes, what is the purpose of Kurtz in the story?

First, I should explain some things about what should have happened, in a structural sense, in the writing of the Kurtz segments. Ideally, Kurtz's story should be running in complete parrallel with Juan/Juanita's story. Kurtz should have been introduced as the lowly German man right at the time Juan and Juanita marry (and I mean exactly at that time). Then, his rise to power and prestige in Africa should occur even as Juan experiences problems in his marriage and in politics. Then, right when Juanita is dying, Kurtz should have had the pivotal moment I have planned for him since Day One, so that his segment should have ended upon her death.

However, this cannot happen due to temporal problems raised by trying to tie them together. I could have made the "artistic" adjustment of game events, but it would have had potentially fatal consequences for the future in trying to have events make sense. I can stretch things to a limited extent, but having a huge city pop up in Africa a decade or two early would make some later things rather bizarre. (For those wondering, Kurtz's pivotal event is directly and inexorably tied to Louga becoming a full city, which the 5,000 natives there join.)

With that out of the way, I shall reveal Kurtz's purpose. Of course, he is multi-purpose. First, and least important, he symbolizes Castile's entire colonization policy, which is assimilate and absorb when possible (as opposed to exterminate and plunder indiscriminately). Of course, I leave it as an exercise to the reader whether or not this colonial policy is much better than that of Cortez and his brethren. Second, I am trying an entirely new way to approach a figure like Kurtz. In both Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now, we only encounter Kurtz after he is too far gone for any sort of human redemption. (Theologians may argue about his chances at Salvation, but that is beyond our scope here.) We meet him after he has completed his descent into depravity. On the other hand, this Kurtz I have given us is a figure whom we have met before he has done any of his actions in Africa. This time around (so to speak), I want to see how far Kurtz can go and still be capable of redemption (in some sense). The key to this is to have him progress slowly up to the abyss that Marlowe mentions in Conrad's novella. By having him inch towards it, rather than run for it at full speed, I intend for him to truly be as far as he can go, before having him turn back from his path. (For those paying attention, that means Kurtz will get something resembling a happy ending.) The final purpose he was supposed to serve, which he really can't thanks to my unwillingness to warp the space/time dimension, was to be a contrasting figure the our usual favorites. Carlos, Juan, Toledo, and Juanita are not mysterious figures. They are also not studies in evil. Kurtz, on the other hand, has this potential. If his story was parrallel to theirs, we could get an evil (or mysteriously complex) figure to reinforce our preceptions of our beloved king and friends. Sadly, in this incarnation of the story, it is not possible to fulfill this role.

Still, I intend to continue with it. I still want to see if I can meet my other goals. When I go back and do my "Director's Cut" of this part, I will toy around with making it truly parrallel, and see if it works out. If it doesn't, then it is a failed experiment. If it does, then it is a successful experiment.

Oh, and in a future incarnation, Kurtz's name will be changed. I just kept it as a way to keep me focused on what kind of person he needed to be. Unlike a Toledo or Carlos, I can't have Kurtz evolving into something different, otherwise it defeats the purpose of having him there. (At least, the purpose of this experiment.)

 

[Secret Master]

The Legions have crossed the Rubicon. And Toledo stepped up into the breach lets hope that he wón't be forced to pay the price of his actions.

Ah, I see. Silly me; I was expecting the death scene of Carlos and Toledo to be on the field of battle. Now I see it will be on the gallows.

Have I made the situation look that grim? Then I must be doing something right...

In all seriousness, I intend for Toledo and Carlos to get a death truly worthy of their lives. You may discuss among yourselves as to what kind of death you think they deserve. However, the grimness of what is going on (both real grimness and imagined grimness) has consequences for someone else in this story besides Carlos, Toledo, and Juan.

Someone in the near future will probably accuse me of borrowing an old motif from a previous plot, but I assure you we will be heading in a radically new direction with it.

I hope I have been vague enough....

 

[unmerged(6816)]

I haven't really gotten the feeling that Kurt is either evil or mad. The picture I have of him is a man obsessed with profit maybe but nothin really dark or sinister.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Thanks SM...

Thank you for taking the time to give us an uncharacteristic bit of behind-the-scenes info on Kurtz. I must say that I really appreciate it on a number of levels.

I think, first and foremost, that I am at a bit of a disadvantage since it's been donkey's years since I last read Heart of Darkness and I never studied it formally so I don't think I have the same appreciation of it that some others might have. It's also been some time since I last saw Apocalypse Now so I am even further removed from the intent.

Thus, while I cottoned onto the least important aspect of Kurtz's character/plot function, the less obvious plot devices went completely over my head. Now that I am aware of them, I can see what you intend a lot better and I guess maybe it's just a case of curbing my impatience a bit to allow you to develop him slowly in order to thoroughly explore the thematic elements of redemption and salvation.

I can only agree with you that having this development take place in conjunction with (or as a counterpoint to) the events in Castile with Juan/Juanita/Toledo/Carlos would definitely reinforce his character and function, but I understand the issues when something logistically simply won't work or doesn't make any sense in light of some of the spin-off aspects of what must happen.

I must say that the Kurtz "side plot" is an ambitious one, and I'd be interested in reading it in its future incarnation as you juggle around the events to make them concurrent - just to see if that changes my reaction to it. Of course at that point I'd already know what his purpose is so maybe that would ruin my objectivity in evaluating the success of whatever alterations you decide to make.

 

[unmerged(10425)]

I, for one, do enjoy the Kurtz scenes

 

[Storey]

The Kurtz side plot for me has been simply to show what was happening in the colonization by Spain of Africa. I haven’t read much more into it since it’s been a side story without a real focus at least that I could see. There are hints in what it could be but I haven’t been able to see where you were going with it because of the lack of details. I’m almost disappointed that you broke it down for us but if you hadn’t it would have taken a few/several more posts about Kurtz for me to get the Apocalypse Now connection. Of course as soon as you mentioned it I went "Of course!" I also enjoyed the Kurtz posts but they did go over my head in what you were trying to symbolize with him.

Joe

 

[The_Hawk]

I didn't attribute much beyond simply colonisation to Kurtz -- until the scene where his palace of ivory suddenly appears. I thought it was a very neat visualization in and of itself, but quite beyond that, what it represented -- that Kurtz was something more than a simple colonist or trader -- was rather abruptly hammered home during that scene. So personally, I found it rather effective. Just my .02.

 

[unmerged(6816)]

I was indeed wondering where it was going

 

[Secret Master]

The rain had yet to cease. Its incessant nature contributed to a feeling of sloth as everything at the trading post slowed down. The midday meal itself took over an two hours to consume. In that two hours, Francisco founds himself engrossed in conversation with the one and only Walter Kurtz from Pfalz, a God-fearing Catholic who would have nothing to do with Lutheran heresies. Of course, it would have been difficult to know what heresy he did accept, considering the absence of any Bible in the immediate area.

"... and you know how easy it is to learn Castillian. So, after leaving my home, I found myself in one of Christendom's most prosperous lands doing quite well for myself."

"And apparently, you eventually found yourself in Africa, with a direct commision from the king."

"Yes. Though he hardly cares for what I do down here. I could bring in one pound of ivory, or one ton of ivory, and he would likely not even notice. Busy man he is."

"So why is all that ivory just sitting out there? Surely that would make anyone a small fortune."

"It might, but the ramifications of shipping it all would hurt Louga in the long run."

"I don't understand."

"It's quite simple. If I tried to have all of that ivory sold in Lisbon at one time, I'd never get a good price for it. Furthermore, no one would need any more ivory for a long time. There is no need for that much ivory these days."

"So you just sit on it here in Louga?"

"Of course. I didn't say there would be no need for ivory in the future. I guess that in a decade, the need for ivory will increase to the point that all of those mountians of ivory will bring in a huge profit, without ruining the market."

"That is very clever, Senor Kurtz."

"Please, call me Walter."

They paused for a moment as they each took a bite of food.

"Walter, I have to ask you something."

"Oh, and what is that?"

"What exactly is a der faulenzer?"

Kurtz chuckled for a bit.

"Heard the darkies say that, did you?"

"Pardon? The darkies?"

"You know, the darkies. The Africans."

"Oh, yes, right. I heard one of the darkies saying that."

"It is a German word, which in Castillian would mean..."

Kurtz paused as he attempted to translate the term into Castillian.

"It means... bread."

Francisco looked at him quizzically.

"You refer to them as bread?"

Kurtz shook his head in frustration.

"No, no, no. A loaf."

"A loaf of bread?"

"No, no, no...."

He paused again.

"Lazy. It means lazy."

Francisco looked confused.

"How did you get bread and laziness confused?"

"In German, we would call them a loafer. Someone who loafs around all day. But in Castillian, there is no direct equivalent."

"Ahh, I understand now. Sometimes the darkies get lazy, do they?"

"Yes. I can't have their laziness get in the way of ivory."

"Oh, of course not. That is also a good way to prevent the sin of sloth."

"Oh, yes, that too."

 

[Castellon]

I liked the exchange at the end of the conversation, Very humourous.

 

[Secret Master]

I haven’t read much more into it since it’s been a side story without a real focus at least that I could see.

That is the problem with it being a side sotry, isn't it? However, the camera will be focused more on Kurtz for a bit, since nothing is really happening back in Madrid. (Well, nothing earthshattering...) So, we'll see what pops up.

I didn't attribute much beyond simply colonisation to Kurtz -- until the scene where his palace of ivory suddenly appears.

I'm glad you said this, Hawk. I wanted it to be a subtle image, but clear. I didn't want to beat it into the reader's head that this was important, but I did want it to cause a lightbulb to go off. (I have tried beating readers over the head with symbolism and significance, but it never works. )

There will be more Kurtz oriented material in the future, with side posts detailing events in Madrid. Obviously, in Juan's state, things will be fairly quiet on the home front. (I don't see him suddenly declaring war, even if he had a CB, since he is to busy being generally depressed.) Even though I have let the cat out of the bag, so to speak, we will see if the Kurtz side of equation still has some surprises left...

 

[Duuk]

Tuesday!

 

[Syt]

Originally posted by Secret Master
I didn't want to beat it into the reader's head that this was important, but I did want it to cause a lightbulb to go off.

To go on, you mean?

 

[Secret Master]

And as suddenly as it had started, the rain ceased. It was a Sunday morning, and the sun made its first grand entrance in weeks. Even with the thick canopy of the jungle around the trading post, its light pierced through to reach the soft, rain soaked ground.

Mud was everywhere, as it had been for these many weeks; however, with the sun creeping to its zenith, the mud became less of a fact of life, and more of a bother. For their part, Kurtz and Francisco trod the paths around the trading post, examining both the building and the ivory with great interest. Of course, superior Castillian craftsmanship had allowed the building of the trading post to remain inviolate despite the weather. This was in stark contrast to the huts that were in the vicinity. Most of them showed damage in varying degrees. Their inhabitants were out and about, repairing and cleaning their homes.

"Walter, I am surprised at the prudence of the darkies. They seem very industrious in the wake of such weather."

"Amazing, isn't it? They really put the peasants in Iberia to shame. They never complain, always work hard, and show proper respect."

"So, will today be a day of repairing and relaxation?"

"Oh no, Herr Francsico... Err, Senor Francisco. Old habits, eh?"

"They can be hard to break, can't they?"

"Quite. As I was saying, no, we will not be working on hovels today."

"Oh? And what will we be working on?"

"We are behind schedule in our quest. With the break in the weather, it is time to organize another party to gather ivory."

"Gather?"

"Yes. We will be hunting some animals along with looking for old stashes of the stuff. Did you know many of the tribes in Africa have ivory as part of their burial rites?"

"No, I did not."

"Yes. Quite wasteful, when you think about it. Needless to say, we will be liberating it whenever we find it."

Francisco nodded in approval as an African ran up to them.

"Senor Kurtz! What are orders for today?"

"Ah, yes. Watumbo, we hunt for ivory today."

"Ivory?"

"Yes."

"I get warriors for party."

"Very good."

Watumbo vanished as quickly as he appeared.

"Your man Watumbo seems very organized and on top of things."

"He is. Did you know he is the son of a tribal chief?"

"Why, no."

"He is. And once his father dies, he will inherit the tribe, so to speak."

"An even better man to have in your employ because of it."

They walked in silence for a few moments.

"Tell me, have any churches been built here?"

"Oh no. No time or supplies for church building."

"And no inquisidors to bring the faith to these people?"

"Inquisidors?"

"Err, missionaries."

"No, I'm afraid not."

"Well, I hope they are giving priority to the church at the colony proper. It would be nice to save their souls."

"Of course it would."

At this point, a party of African men appeared next to Kurtz, carrying a combination of spears and firearms. Watumbo was at the head of them, and they seemed eager to follow Kurtz. Kurtz glanced over them, nodded to Francsico, and began to move into the jungle. Francisco and the African men followed Kurtz without question, as he disappeared into the darkness.

Behind them all, towers of ivory shone in all their radiance as the sun radiated its oppressive heat upon the earth.

 

[Secret Master]

Originally posted by Sytass


To go on, you mean?

Why, no. As a matter of fact, I wanted the lightbulbs to go off. It would symbolize the inherent darkness coming up in the in story, preparing my readers for what lies ahead. The power of a lightbulb going off to foreshadow dark and mysteirous deeds is undeniable....

You're not buying this for one second are you?

D'oh!

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Ah. I see. You wanted to illuminate the dark times ahead.

Okay, I'm seeing Kurtz now for what he is or is intended to become (do you have any idea how many pages of posts there are to go through when you want to go back and review something like that! ) and I can see that my myopic reading is at least partly to blame.

Reading them all in two sittings (as I have just done) definitely helps since the preceeding Kurtz instalment is still fresh in your mind when you read the next subtle transition. I think that the reason some of us were less "in tune" with your character's development is in large part due to the "forum factor" where the intervening days (and host of other AARs we're reading in between) have a tendency to make us lose track of some of the more subtle elements of a work if they stretch over a long period of time and larger number of posts.

I think that the same group of readers, seeing this in a collected "book" form and reading it in that way, would be right on top of where you're going.

That make any sense?

BTW...must say for the umpteenth time that your writing (particularly some recent passages of dialogue) is really stupendous!

 

[Secret Master]

I think that the same group of readers, seeing this in a collected "book" form and reading it in that way, would be right on top of where you're going.

That make any sense?

Makes complete sense. In fact, I am logging in my mind what has been said here lately of the Kurtz sub-plot. As you may or may not remember, my rantings regarding the medium of the forum as a literary outlet were concerned with this very thing. It would seem to indicate that writing on the forum is not condusive to long-term subtle hints regarding characters. This will be duly noted and there may be a way to get around it. (Perhaps having a character flashback to soething that was already written about, but that might be too soap-opera-ish...)

Also, I am glad the dialog really is doing it for you. I do not know if you have noticed it, but I am trying the direct opposite of what you are doing in RRR with non-dialog portions. I am trying to have the non-dialog portions contrast to the viewpoints of Kurtz and Francisco, rather than have the descriptions come from their POV. I am not sure how effective this is, but I am trying to create a very specific effect on the readers. (I won't say what, since that would render the whole point moot.)

Oh, and some clever souls may have noticed slight title change. LD was kind enough to honor a request for the title to be modified. I think this new title works much better than the old one.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Originally posted by Secret Master
Also, I am glad the dialog really is doing it for you. I do not know if you have noticed it, but I am trying the direct opposite of what you are doing in RRR with non-dialog portions. I am trying to have the non-dialog portions contrast to the viewpoints of Kurtz and Francisco, rather than have the descriptions come from their POV. I am not sure how effective this is, but I am trying to create a very specific effect on the readers. (I won't say what, since that would render the whole point moot.)

It's interesting because your dialogue style is "minimalistic"...really more constructed in the form of a play than anything else. Almost all actions, emotions, expressions, etc. are to be inferred with virtually no help from the author (you do throw in the odd stage direction, but not anywhere near to the degree that is commonplace in most novels.

Another thing about your dialogue that is rather...odd...I guess, considering most standards of conversation (casual or otherwise), is that your characters rarely express themselves using more than a sentence or two. This certainly flies in the face of conventional wisdom or the psychology of communication, but it does end up providing a rather stark contrast to your narrative sections. At first it used to bother me but I've become used to it and now I rather enjoy it. I think of it as an acquired taste though.

Those (the narrative) sections are a combination of elements employing more "flowery" language and almost told from the POV of a rather cynical Castilian observer. Makes for an interesting counterpoint, though I'm not certain that this is the effect that you're refering to.