The next NF-based DLC: Beneath the Southern Cross

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Michael Gladius

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With lessons learned from BotB, the next place that could use some NF love is the southern hemisphere:
  • The Philippines
  • Siam
  • Liberia
  • Latin America & the Caribbean (except Mexico)
  • Sub-Saharan Africa (post-decolonization)

The Philippines and Siam played important roles by virtue of their geography. Liberia and Latin America provided invaluable bases for patrolling the Atlantic. And South America had plenty of political maneuvering as it supplied raw materials to the Allied war effort.



This could also be a good place to test ways to abstract qualitative differences between modern, semi-industrial, and agrarian economies apart from the quantitative differences already present. Most of the nations affected by this proposal were the size of Belgium in terms of population, but were peasant nations that produced raw materials, rather than finished products.
 
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Dlin369

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While I would prefer to see other regions like the Middle East and Scandinavia get implemented before some of these countries, I do agree that the countries you mentioned could use some attention

Latin America I feel like will be 2-3 country packs just because there are a lot of countries. I imagine one for Brazil and South Cone, one for Carribean, one for Centro America, and maybe One for Gran Columbia region

South East Asia is another one I’d like to see - Siam, Philippines, Indonesia, Malay and maybe throw in Mengukuo or French Indochina.
 
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Kazakk

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Afican focus tree is something almost no one would buy. They aren't even real countries before, during or shortly after the war. They were all colonies under the world powers.
Unless the devs decide to do like the modern mod and update the game to 2020, lots of wars going there.

But anyways, I'd love to see the Philipines, Siam, Iran and Iraq. They all played a part, even if minor. A latin america DLC would mostly be for the lulz, forming an union of socialists republics in latin america. Even if the devs make a DLC for latin america, I doubt the Ecuadorian-Peruvian war would be implemented.
 
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With lessons learned from BotB, the next place that could use some NF love is the southern hemisphere:
  • The Philippines
  • Siam
  • Liberia
  • Latin America & the Caribbean (except Mexico)
  • Sub-Saharan Africa (post-decolonization)

The Philippines and Siam played important roles by virtue of their geography. Liberia and Latin America provided invaluable bases for patrolling the Atlantic. And South America had plenty of political maneuvering as it supplied raw materials to the Allied war effort.



This could also be a good place to test ways to abstract qualitative differences between modern, semi-industrial, and agrarian economies apart from the quantitative differences already present. Most of the nations affected by this proposal were the size of Belgium in terms of population, but were peasant nations that produced raw materials, rather than finished products.
None of these are in the southern hemisphere

Screenshot_20201212-115837_Chrome.jpg
 
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Iskulya

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Most pressing minors are probably the Scandinavian countries, Siam, and Brazil.

I still wish we could potentially see new focus trees for majors. The mod Road to 56 already shows it is quite easily to implement something where which focus tree a country has can be determined by the game rules.

I appreciate these new, incredibly intricate and detailed focus trees as with Bulgaria and Turkey, but in my opinion its getting absurd how lackluster the focus trees for the major countries like Japan and even Germany are in comparison.

I mean, Germany doesn't have a *bad* focus tree. I think it's good, it's just not *detailed* in comparison to.. well, everything we've gotten in the last two years. It's just that it's incredibly general and lacks interesting choices, alternatives, and other innovative and unique things we've been seeing with the newer focus trees for minors.

I think Germany, the United States, and the Soviet Union should probably have the most detailed focus trees. It's great that smaller countries are getting incredibly fleshed out, but I can't help but feel a sense of disappointment in the sense that if this is what they could achieve with countries like the Netherlands and Bulgaria that the content we have for the major countries could be much more impressive than it currently is.

France was a step forward, even if it was not perfect overall. The Democratic path with its various possibilities was very fleshed out and well done, while others like the various monarchist options felt rather half baked and uninteresting. I think it's definitely the case that we have seen some pretty big strides in the general approach to how focus trees should be done by the time. I'd really like to see all the experience and wisdom earned from the last 4 years of development turned back to give us more compelling experiences for Germany, Japan, and eventually the US.

A DLC focused on Latin America eventually after Scandinavia, Belgium, Ireland, Iraq, Iran, and Siam could be good. It's absurd to think it's a joke. Brazil joined the war historically and actually did some fighting, unlike a lot of other minors that were nominally in the Axis or Allies but actually did nothing(like Mexico). Brazil is definitely needed, and at some point sooner rather than later. The addition of so many Axis minors is starting to skew things more in favor of the Axis. Things like the Greek focus tree actually just serve to strengthen the axis even more by giving Italy access to more factories and resources.
 
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Beserker

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Most pressing minors are probably the Scandinavian countries, Siam, and Brazil.

I still wish we could potentially see new focus trees for majors. The mod Road to 56 already shows it is quite easily to implement something where which focus tree a country has can be determined by the game rules.

I appreciate these new, incredibly intricate and detailed focus trees as with Bulgaria and Turkey, but in my opinion its getting absurd how lackluster the focus trees for the major countries like Japan and even Germany are in comparison.

I mean, Germany doesn't have a *bad* focus tree. I think it's good, it's just not *detailed* in comparison to.. well, everything we've gotten in the last two years. It's just that it's incredibly general and lacks interesting choices, alternatives, and other innovative and unique things we've been seeing with the newer focus trees for minors.

I think Germany, the United States, and the Soviet Union should probably have the most detailed focus trees. It's great that smaller countries are getting incredibly fleshed out, but I can't help but feel a sense of disappointment in the sense that if this is what they could achieve with countries like the Netherlands and Bulgaria that the content we have for the major countries could be much more impressive than it currently is.

France was a step forward, even if it was not perfect overall. The Democratic path with its various possibilities was very fleshed out and well done, while others like the various monarchist options felt rather half baked and uninteresting. I think it's definitely the case that we have seen some pretty big strides in the general approach to how focus trees should be done by the time. I'd really like to see all the experience and wisdom earned from the last 4 years of development turned back to give us more compelling experiences for Germany, Japan, and eventually the US.

A DLC focused on Latin America eventually after Scandinavia, Belgium, Ireland, Iraq, Iran, and Siam could be good. It's absurd to think it's a joke. Brazil joined the war historically and actually did some fighting, unlike a lot of other minors that were nominally in the Axis or Allies but actually did nothing(like Mexico). Brazil is definitely needed, and at some point sooner rather than later. The addition of so many Axis minors is starting to skew things more in favor of the Axis. Things like the Greek focus tree actually just serve to strengthen the axis even more by giving Italy access to more factories and resources.

This makes very apparent a problem rooted in the Focus Tree system - it’s too rigid for quick updates. While I absolutely love them, and the player-base seems to agree, it’s too hard to keep updating and fleshing out more, especially because the devs also have many other concerns and work in such a small team.

This means that, every time they learn something new, things that work, things that don’t, design philosophies, etc, they can only use them in future designs. Otherwise, they’d probably still be working on the British Dominions to this day...

The best we can hope for are some revamps in the future, like what was done to Yugoslavia and, to a much lesser extent, Romania. I believe it is mostly tied to the system than to the devs themselves.
 
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Iskulya

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This makes very apparent a problem rooted in the Focus Tree system - it’s too rigid for quick updates. While I absolutely love them, and the player-base seems to agree, it’s too hard to keep updating and fleshing out more, especially because the devs also have many other concerns and work in such a small team.

This means that, every time they learn something new, things that work, things that don’t, design philosophies, etc, they can only use them in future designs. Otherwise, they’d probably still be working on the British Dominions to this day...

The best we can hope for are some revamps in the future, like what was done to Yugoslavia and, to a much lesser extent, Romania. I believe it is mostly tied to the system than to the devs themselves.

Is there a bigger concern than Germany, though? Germany is the most played country by far, it's more played than all the minor countries put together. A new focus tree for Germany is definiteley more pressing than a focus tree for an impoverished undeveloped country with a population of just a few million people.

Like I said, if they allow one to toggle between different focus trees in the game rules then there is nothing that prevents them from 'overwriting' old DLC focus trees with new ones. It completely avoids the situation of "DLC for DLC". It makes sense for them to not redo Yugoslavia, or Australia, Canada, etc because none of those countries are played enough to justify spending the money in labor on developing a new focus tree for them. This is very much untrue when it comes to focus trees for the most played countries like Germany and Japan.

Certainly, the Soviet Union and Italy need reworks before that happens, but after that I think they should give us new focus trees for Germany and Japan especially. If afterwards they're just going to release DLCs for these really small and impoverished countries, then that's just not going to be fun. I do enjoy playing as minors from time to time, and have enjoyed the focuses that we got from BFTB, but let's be real: Germany, Japan, Italy, Britain, France, and the US are where most of the action and fun is to be had. I just can't agree that we should be straightjacked into just accepting the current lackluster content(relatively speaking) for the major countries just because they already got focus trees while future development effort goes exclusively to really small and/or weak countries that have a really circumscribed game play experience.

As much as some people like to diss on the official focus trees and point to mod, the fact is that there aren't really any good focus tree rework mods for Japan, Germany, US, Britain, Italy, and France. Most of the high quality work in the modding scene comes for total conversion mods like Kaiserreich and TNO, not a-la-carte reworks compatible with the base game experience. In fact, once a country has received a focus tree, all modding efforts on the country in question are usually ceased permanently. There was a focus tree mod for canada, for example, and it stopped being supported as soon as Canada got a focus tree in Together for Victory. There has never been another one since then.

I agree it's a big problem with the concept of focus trees in the first place, but it's hard to see what the alternative is. The only readily apparent alternative is the one we've already seen in the old games, with everything being driven by events. This isn't a good alternative because it's actually even more rigid, and also more opaque: an event driven system only actually functions where players have foreknowledge of all potential events, their triggering conditions, and outcomes. The focus tree system allows people to see an outline of everything that can happen and commit to something, this is why alternate history works so well for them.
 
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When I read the title I fully expected this to be about Australia and New Zealand, not about predominantly northern hemisphere countries haha.

  • The Philippines- would likely form a part of a South-East Asia pack along with possibly released trees for Indochina, Indonesia and Malaysia.
  • Siam- Same as above
  • Liberia- I mean no disrespect but why? Your manpower would be pitiful, no resources or tech.
  • Latin America & the Caribbean (except Mexico)- Latin America I can see getting a pack because Brazil and Argentina are quite popular to play as. I don't think there is enough content wise for a Caribbean pack and you would get decimated by the Allied navies pretty quickly as island nations.
  • Sub-Saharan Africa (post-decolonization)- As someone else has pointed out I don't think there is enough there content wise. The only actual country worth playing would be Ethiopia which do I believe should have a tree. Perhaps with the Italian rework?
For Africa and the Caribbean I think the only things you need content wise is new formable nations. It would be cool to have a West Indies formable. For Africa you already have Al-Andalus, Arabia and Ottoman and in South Africa the Mutapa, so really all you need is a West African formable and a Sub-Saharan formable if you want some additional content for Africa without creating full content packs.

I believe the next content packs will be (in no particular chronological order) aforementioned South-East Asia pack, Scandinavia, Middle-East and South America.

Is there a bigger concern than Germany, though? Germany is the most played country by far, it's more played than all the minor countries put together. A new focus tree for Germany is definiteley more pressing than a focus tree for an impoverished undeveloped country with a population of just a few million people.

Unless they plan on a HOI5 in the next couple of years I expect they will cycle through the majors every year while using content packs like BotB for the majority of the minors. Next major content back will likely include Soviet Union and hopefully Italy and a couple of minors. I fully expect Germany and Japan to get a revisit after that as they are the oldest of the current major trees after SU and Italy.
 
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Dlin369

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Sub-saharan African might be able to get some content if they do a post-war timeline expansion, but that would need to be accompanied by mechanics to make the Cold War fun once conventional warfare gets reduced to proxy wars. I actually would like to see decolonization be addressed, but I don't know if HOI4 will be the one that will actually handle the Cold War for PDX.
 

Zxeres

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  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
I would like to see HOI take a step back and remember its roots. Stick to the code and make the game more enjoyable. We do not need fancy danecy. Most of us are looking looking at the core game.
 
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