I don't think you are talking about the same thing. I think Drake is saying that the starting location has to be relatively close to each other but colonization would be still possible.
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Lets just have it be Europe, for the sake of speed and simplicity. I feel like more people want it this way as well.
We ought to base it on regular WATK3 as well, to avoid having to provide quite as many files to incoming subs. EGO's mod doesn't improve play in a random game.
I don't think we need to restrict play to inside Europe itself. What we can do to equalize positions though is bid on countries with inflation, so if somebody thinks the eastern countries are better and wants to be one for an edge, they can bid a higher inflation level to try to get one.
We ought to base it on regular WATK3 as well, to avoid having to provide quite as many files to incoming subs. EGO's mod doesn't improve play in a random game.
I don't think we need to restrict play to inside Europe itself. What we can do to equalize positions though is bid on countries with inflation, so if somebody thinks the eastern countries are better and wants to be one for an edge, they can bid a higher inflation level to try to get one.
Alright. Unless there's some sudden change of opinions here, I'll make a scenario with four-province countries in Europe based on the WATK map. Boundaries will roughly be Golden Horde, Persia, and Mesopatamia in the East, the Sahara and Ethiopia in the south. Something's come up, so I won't start on it until tomorrow, and I have no idea how long it will take.
Meanwhile, feel free to continue arguing over the details.
Meanwhile, feel free to continue arguing over the details.
Great, TC. With the multi-religion thing for the respective countries, and seperate cultures on six or so provinces?(or 7-8, maybe). The rest the same culture in Europe?(but not outside of the boundaries you indicated, so that expansion there will be difficult). If you wanted to incorporate some nuance in base taxes and manpower levels too, I think be ok, so long as it's roughly even. Perfect fairness won't be possible, as Drake has pointed out, so I think we'll need to just go into this not expecting that kind of perfection, but rather to focus on the fact this will be a unique experience.
Don't forget to add cores as well. Not only on the starting provinces, but I'd say everyone would get something like 25-30 cores in total, and we would want many cores to be in conflict between several powers.
I liked the leaders we had i the last campaign, we should use the same settings again.
My plan is to draw the boundaries and then post the result online so people can pick which countries they want to be, then add cores/cultures/religions/cots to those countries (as well as any custom names for your country, culture, cities, etc.
So once I get the map done, we need to make a new thread for the campaign.
What would you guys think about doing this on Tuesdays? I don't think I've seen anybody object to a Tuesday yet. That would solve TC's possible problem with mondays. This also allows us to bring HG in, who isn't able to do it on mondays.
Tuesdays are just as (potentially) problematic for me as Mondays, as would any weekday. For what it's worth, I'd prefer Sundays most.
If we were to do Sundays, I would only be able to commit on a CET afternoon, rather than evening.
i cant play sundays unles its before 8pm cet end and even then i often have to work daytime (tho its alot calmer atm till september)
i can do tuesdays tho
i can do tuesdays tho
Alright, so I had hoped to finish the map yesterday, but whenever I try running the scenario, it crashes to desktop while reading the scenario. The frustrating thing is that it started happening after I fixed all the typical error messages that pop up during loading.
I'm pretty sure that the problem is systemic throughout the modded country .inc files, since replacing my modified .eug file still causes CTD, as does removing all but one of the .inc files. But I have no idea what that problem is.
Edit - I'm almost positive now that I did something wrong with the country setup files, because even using just one of those files in an otherwise functional campaign will cause the game to CTD when loading. If someone could look over some of my .inc files, maybe we could figure out what's wrong.
I'm pretty sure that the problem is systemic throughout the modded country .inc files, since replacing my modified .eug file still causes CTD, as does removing all but one of the .inc files. But I have no idea what that problem is.
Edit - I'm almost positive now that I did something wrong with the country setup files, because even using just one of those files in an otherwise functional campaign will cause the game to CTD when loading. If someone could look over some of my .inc files, maybe we could figure out what's wrong.
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TC, you can't start fooling around with the files and expect it all to work at once.... Modding eu2 has a lot of traps.
Modding eu2 has a lot of traps.
"Good news, everyone!"
I realized that the single .inc file I used to "test" contained a rather blatant mistake of mine (I forgot to give Byzantium province information). This resulted in a cascade of revelations and revisions, so that the game no longer CTDs anymore when I load it up.
As of now, the map is about 95% done. A few spots are inexplicably blank, and I get two "database mismatch" errors that seem to suggest I gave some countries sea provinces, but nothing too serious. Expect a screenshot of the completed map in the next few hours.
I realized that the single .inc file I used to "test" contained a rather blatant mistake of mine (I forgot to give Byzantium province information). This resulted in a cascade of revelations and revisions, so that the game no longer CTDs anymore when I load it up.
As of now, the map is about 95% done. A few spots are inexplicably blank, and I get two "database mismatch" errors that seem to suggest I gave some countries sea provinces, but nothing too serious. Expect a screenshot of the completed map in the next few hours.
So here it is, the product of a fair amount of time spent on modding. I still get two "database mismatches" for prov 1005 (confirmed sea zone) and prov 830 (dunno), but selecting ignore allows me to continue without trouble. I ran the game for about 2 months with no problems.
Currently, all the countries shown have the same culture and religion, cores on their starting provinces, no armies, no tax collectors, a treasury of 400 ducats, +3 stab and equal technology, and equal population per province (20k in the capital, 15k, 12k, and 10k placed randomly). Two of the countries circled in white, Hannover and Hessen, unfortunately have only 3 provinces, the product of me screwing up the initial attempt to lay out the map and not double-checking, so I gave them 600 ducats. The Timurids and "the Caliphate" (it says Kalmar Union in-game, but it's sunni and has proper cultures) got minor territorial boosts to fill in the vaccuum left by Kara Konyulu. White lines are meant to show borders between countries with the same map color.
Once people start picking their countries, I'll finish up the rest of the modding, which includes:
-removing historical leaders, replacing monarchs (will we do 1 undying monarch, or several of varying quality selected by the player?)
-placing each cot in player capitals
-editing the religion modifiers (assuming we're still doing that) for players
-changing all provinces to the same culture and all non-player provinces to pagan (assuming we're still doing that)
There might be some more, but I can't think of it right now. Time to take a break.
Edit - by the way, I want Byz
Currently, all the countries shown have the same culture and religion, cores on their starting provinces, no armies, no tax collectors, a treasury of 400 ducats, +3 stab and equal technology, and equal population per province (20k in the capital, 15k, 12k, and 10k placed randomly). Two of the countries circled in white, Hannover and Hessen, unfortunately have only 3 provinces, the product of me screwing up the initial attempt to lay out the map and not double-checking, so I gave them 600 ducats. The Timurids and "the Caliphate" (it says Kalmar Union in-game, but it's sunni and has proper cultures) got minor territorial boosts to fill in the vaccuum left by Kara Konyulu. White lines are meant to show borders between countries with the same map color.
Once people start picking their countries, I'll finish up the rest of the modding, which includes:
-removing historical leaders, replacing monarchs (will we do 1 undying monarch, or several of varying quality selected by the player?)
-placing each cot in player capitals
-editing the religion modifiers (assuming we're still doing that) for players
-changing all provinces to the same culture and all non-player provinces to pagan (assuming we're still doing that)
There might be some more, but I can't think of it right now. Time to take a break.
Edit - by the way, I want Byz
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Thanks, TC! I think I'll take Nubia, if that's the country on the left in Egypt, and if it's capital falls within Europe, allowing it to expand into Europe and gain manpower there without a land connection.
We seem to have a major issue regarding when we will play. Sunday, as our best weekend option, is dubious to at least three players. If we moved the start time to maybe 2PM CET, would that eliminate all problems(and maybe you could request that part of the day off, Drake?). It'd be a bit early for me, but I'd do it.
TC, what would you say are the odds of a TC posing trouble? If it's something that would only happen once or twice in the campaign, maybe it'd be maneagable.
We seem to have a major issue regarding when we will play. Sunday, as our best weekend option, is dubious to at least three players. If we moved the start time to maybe 2PM CET, would that eliminate all problems(and maybe you could request that part of the day off, Drake?). It'd be a bit early for me, but I'd do it.
TC, what would you say are the odds of a TC posing trouble? If it's something that would only happen once or twice in the campaign, maybe it'd be maneagable.
It is Nubia. I don't know if it falls within Europe, so it's likely just whatever the WATK3 pre-sets are.
Which reminds me, if anyone wants to customize their country a little (name of country/monarchs/cities, country color, sprites, etc), let me know and I'll see what I can do.
2PM CET is doable for me, but for the time being, so is any day. It's just that my schedule may change later and make weekdays impossible for me.
What's a TC?
Good job!
I suggest we do not allow people to be too unevenly spread on the map. Say everyone gives top 3 choices, and all three have to be neighbouring countries, and then the GM places people as good as possible, so that we don't have things like neighbouring capitals of human players.
I suggest we introduce a bulk of n/2 cultures, where n is number of starting nations. So that if we have 10 starting nations, we split the whole playing area (Europe that is) into 5 different cultures, equal amount of provinces for each culture, and then give every nation 2 of these cultures, apart from the colonial culture. And not make all the provinces pagan, but rather some religion that will not change culture to colonial, or we will get a too uniform map. Just set all player-neighbouring provinces to the player religion (we want at least 2 province distance between starting positions anyway), and the rest to some unused, placeholder religion, buddhist or hindu or something. And then make all the rest of the world into pagan.