The neverending Cargo Train gridlock problem

[MichielVanLoey]

Hello,

I have 1000+ gaming hours with Cities skylines, and it's one of my favorite games ever. I like a challenge, problem solving (traffic) and the complexity of it all. But one aspect seems totally broken:

Cargo Trains !

I have used all tips and tricks proposed on different media, but cargo trains keep generation total rail network gridlocks!

The main reasons to me why it happens are:

- cargo station spam cargo trains like mad, mostly almost empty, and multiple to every other cargo station on the map. The number of almost empty cargo trains increase exponentially with the number of cargo stations on the map. Cargo train traffic would significantly improve when cargo trains were only send when they are (almost) full, and not with 2% loads. (same story with with ship spaming)

- trains (in general) should never halt upon a switch (point). We, as a player, haven't the possibility to place signals, so we can't protect junctions, the game has the do it. Now, most gridlocks are caused by trains occupying a point (switch) preventing other trains to pass. This should never happen, unless signals are introduced and we get control over how the protect crossings.

- the lack of cargo stations to serve as cargo hub: drop off of goods, and picked up by another train. Cargo stations only transfer cargo from road to rail and vise-versa. The introduction of a cargo hub would make more efficient use of cargo trains, and reduce the unnecessary truck traffic between two cargo stations (example: dual station export-local)

I don't think it would be very difficult to correct these three problems by the developers. I do not understand why since, the outcome of Cities Skylines, and the MANY people complaining about the cargo gridlock problem, nothing has been done to solve the major causes of this problem.

(By the way, I'm also a big Transport Fever fan, and hope one day that Cities Skylines would get inspired by this game for the rail network management, because trains are lacking big in Cities Skylines)

best regards,

 

[ristosal]

We, as a player, haven't the possibility to place signals

This is incorrect. You place signals on switches the same way as you switch traffic lights and stop signs for road intersections.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

My most recent game, I've been getting massive amount of cargo trains as well as passenger trains from out of town. Maybe there's something up with the train spawning in game?

 

[ristosal]

My most recent game, I've been getting massive amount of cargo trains as well as passenger trains from out of town. Maybe there's something up with the train spawning in game?

The train and ship spawning mechanism is a bit silly because a train is spawned per every connected station per outside connection. For example, if you have connected 2 passenger train stations to 4 outside connections each, you will get 8 trains and the loads are shared.

 

[Fleetzpiepe]

This is incorrect. You place signals on switches the same way as you switch traffic lights and stop signs for road intersections.

You are right. Stop signs can be placed on switches, but they do not help if there is a congestion behind the switch, because the trains do not take into account if there is enough space for them behind the switch.

I would like to see an option for intercity cargo stations like we got for passenger trains.

 

[Turjan]

Just place cargo stations in a way that they can only be reached from one of the outside connections, not all of them. Design your rail network accordingly. You can also separate part of your intracity cargo network in a way that none of the stations is reachable from outside connections. Also, the cargo hub (ship train interchange) should be on a separate network. All of this keeps the number of cargo trains low, even in large cities.

 

[barrygreybeard]

And to add to what Turjan said, make use of the one way train tracks, they are very powerful, with them you can split imports and exports to use different stations, thus splitting the train and truck cargo traffic.

 

[deanwebb]

Building on the above two - one way tracks from resources to industrial zones where goods are made. Separate one way tracks from those goods-making zones to commercial zones. Outside cargo NEVER touches the internal network, or the spam will kill off the traffic.

And, yes, though we have to be wary of cargo spam, we can also exploit train despawning. Fight fantasy with fantasy!

 

[MarkJohnson]

As above, segregate all outside train connections and don't let them cross over to the other outside connections.

Limit your stations. If you plop too many on a line, it will start creating partial tiny loads and lots of trains.

Make a local two station only track from point a to point b. I usually place one in industry and link it to commerce directly with a single track. works great.

avoid importing goods, and exporting anything. They just create useless traffic for nothing as they aren't being used except for generating traffic with no benefit to the city.

Make sure to place you stations inside the middle of your district. (in the middle of commerce or industry districts - not outside the district so they have to travel around your city then zig-zag through your district, thereby clogging your roads.) This way deliveries are direct and stay off the main city roads.

 

[rd55]

I wish their was a way to see the stats of a Cargo Terminal. So we knew how much goods was coming into to how much was going out of a specific terminal. I have created a 200,000 population city with some basic mods, but the lack of info on cargo terminals, which really drive some of the economics of the game and know how well each cargo terminal is doing would be great to know.

 

[barrygreybeard]

you can try this if you use mods.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1072157697

 

[deanwebb]

you can try this if you use mods.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1072157697

I agree, it is a very useful mod.

 

[Homer2101]

Cargo trains have been broken since release. At this point it's very unlikely Colossal will do anything to fix them. They didn't even bother adding the local-only button for cargo stations, which shows exactly how much of a priority this is for them. The best work-around is:

1. Segregate your internal and external cargo train networks to prevent stations from spamming useless outside trains;

2. Build flying junctions where possible instead of level junctions;

3. Avoid level crossings except where absolutely necessary;

4. Build the minimum number of cargo stations necessary and rely on trucks for everything else; and

5. Try using one-way cargo stations on the workshop.

 

[deanwebb]

I've found that pairing commercial zones with IT offices works very well. IT offices produce goods with no inputs, commercial zones snap them up and sell them.

 

[wotanbrunilda]

you can try this if you use mods.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1072157697

Thanks. Very useful

 

[Chargone]

I'm going to second the use of flyover junctions for cargo trains. It means any gridlock doesn't affect trains going in the Opposite direction, so you don't get that awkward outcome where train A blocks train B blocks train C ....-> blocks train A. Which means the main cause of delay is too many trains trying to go into the same station at once, which will usually clear itself up over time before the trains start despawning (and can often be further reduced if you can figure out where the goods are going and build additional stations closer to some of the destinations and further away from others than the current station is, so as to split the load) Switching from crossover junctions to flyover junctions pretty much eliminated 90% of my freight traffic issues. (that's After separating intracity and intercity lines, because failure to do that will kill your rail network if it has more than one station of each type no matter what else you do.)


Also, build your tracks so that trains will continue Through stations rather than reversing out of them, as it takes them less time to clear the station that way. one way loops are your friend at the end of lines.

If any train which is Not going to a station would have to pass through it, build bypasses (the train will prefer them if they don't add too much extra to the route, and it cuts down on the backlog. Gotta make sure they're the right length so that trains don't stop part way over the switch though, and again, you want to use one way track and build a seperate bypass going each way, for the same reason you should build flyovers at junctions.)

There are actually a couple of functional multi-track cargo stations on the workshop now! Very useful, though expensive and expansive.

Reduce funding for trains in the budget panel. This means less cargo trains spawn in the first place, and they wait until there is more to carry before doing so. though this also messes with your Passenger trains. Which can be solved by either using monorail for that instead, or adjusting the individual line budgets (the first needs a DLC, can't remember if the second is in the base game or just a mod I use all the time these days.)

Sometimes when you see almost empty cargo trains trundling around, it's because they're getting near the end of their route and there wasn't anything going where they were to pick up at the stops along the way. There isn't much which can be done about that one. Of course, if you actually See a train spawning that empty, it's obviously an issue, but finding a random train somewhere along the tracks with that little cargo could be caused by either.

It's generally best, if you can manage it, to build entirely seperate rail networks for passengers and freight. The goods trains do Strange things if the 'shortest' route between where something is and where it wants to be is to loop around the city three times on tracks which were laid out based on where you needed passenger routes to go. (Had that happen a couple of times. Can't for the life of me remember the specifics, it was a while ago, but it was ... kinda nuts.) Also, it means that you don't have passenger trains getting stuck in the freight jams, or causing them. Not to mention, passenger trains don't need flyover junctions because you can simply not overload the track in the first place. (that said, every passenger line should have its own platform at any given station if at all possible, as platforms shared between lines Can cause backlogs because there's no way to control the Timeing.)

These days, my biggest problem with cargo trains is actually the absolute bottle neck that is the trucks trying to get the goods into and out of the station.

Level crossings cause Very few issues for trains, but do Horrible things to the road traffic. Basically only use them if your train is running through a residential area and intersecting the back streets. Low traffic two lane roads, essentially. (well, sometimes there are exceptions, but bridges and tunnels are preferable in general.)

 

[Homer2101]

Instead of building bypasses around cargo stations, put cargo stations on sidings and keep the mainline clear for through traffic That way only trains that need to stop at the station will take the siding.

Unless Colossal changed the train crossing AI, trains don't get priority on crossings the way they do in reality, which can create potential bottlenecks. It might not be a big source of train congestion, but it's still something that should be eliminated where possible.

 

[Chargone]

Instead of building bypasses around cargo stations, put cargo stations on sidings and keep the mainline clear for through traffic That way only trains that need to stop at the station will take the siding.

Unless Colossal changed the train crossing AI, trains don't get priority on crossings the way they do in reality, which can create potential bottlenecks. It might not be a big source of train congestion, but it's still something that should be eliminated where possible.

In practice trains at level crossings Functionally get priority, in that they'll only stop if the car is already on the crossing when the train gets there, and the car will only be on the crossing if a traffic jam prevents it from driving off (the barrier arms close before the train gets there, preventing new cars from driving on), unless the crossing is Immediately after a station (where it doesn't start detecting the train until the train starts moving out of the station, which can screw it up a bit). Pretty sure that's standard and not something I'm forgetting about a mod. So yes, you'll sometimes see trains waiting for cars, but it doesn't happen very often. Flat out won't happen at crossings on low traffic back roads, because those roads don't jam up. (well, unless you've done something Really wrong elsewhere in your road network), which is why those were the only type I said crossings were fine for. For anything more significant? Oh yeah, avoid crossings like the plague, they ruin everything. The road far more than the rail, but still. They look pretty cool though

The problem with putting the station on a siding (sidings, it should be noted, are dead ends, at least usually and to my understanding) is that you get the problem of trains coming back out of the station blocking incoming trains, causing delays, and thus back logs, which spill onto the main line.
If you have single direction stations, you put Them on the bypass and have the main line go straight, obviously. Or you have the main line go straight past, have the station on a two way bypass and have flyover junctions at each end. In practice though, it's easier, causes less problems, and is sometimes cheaper, to have a standard two track station with the main line running straight into and out of it, with one way bypass tracks splitting off a couple of train lengths before the station (less if you don't have room), and joining back up a couple of lengths after it. The through trains don't slow down much for the very gentle curves involved. Also, you can have the track on the building side of the station go Under the station, taking up less space. That's the main advantage of having through trains use the bypass actually, it takes up less space for how much it helps than the alternatives.

Actually, the main situation where I end up having the station on the main line and the through train using bypasses is when the station was already there, the city was built up around it, and then I had reason to extend the line past that station. It is generally better to use flyover junctions so you can have the station be the one on the bypass and the through trains continue down the main line if you have room to build it that way (without mountains, river, ocean, major city elements which are difficult or impractical to move, etc getting in the way)

If there is one thing I would absolutely LOVE to have in this game at this point it's rail signals which actually allow block signalling and the like. Stop trains from stopping on switches, make it possible to actually use crossover junctions for freight trains without killing your entire network (seriously, flyover junctions are Nonsense. They're just the only real solution to a problem caused by the lack of, well, signals.) The current ability to use signals as a kind of 'stop' sign for trains can Help, admittedly, but all it really does is assign priority to the incoming track without one (so if you end up with a stretch of track between two junctions which is too short for a train, you give trains on the Other tracks at those junctions a signal/yield, so that the trains going through the short bit don't get stuck on it (causing a jam) due to one of the others pulling out in front of it.)
Basically, they help, if you're careful with them, but they're Nothing like as good as proper 'do not advance unless the track from here to the next signal is clear' signal would be.

 

[Fox_NS_CAN]

The problem with putting the station on a siding (sidings, it should be noted, are dead ends, at least usually and to my understanding)

Mostly what you'd want is a "loop siding". I'd guess that is what most people mean when they say "bypass".

you get the problem of trains coming back out of the station blocking incoming trains, causing delays, and thus back logs, which spill onto the main line.

Anywhere there is a junction and two trains arrive together there will be delays, so the fewer junctions the better. The important thing to note about loop sidings for stations, is to make them big enough. Of course with more and more trains, they would need to be ever larger. To clarify for anyone who doesn't know what I mean:

 

[Fox_NS_CAN]

It is generally better to use flyover junctions so you can have the station be the one on the bypass and the through trains continue down the main line if you have room to build it that way

Can you post some screenshots? I'd like to see some.