The Mother of our Failures: i came so close (despite all the bugs)

The Mother of our Failures: i came so close (despite all the bugs)

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Bodemdrift

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20201014020333_1.jpg

My time is almost up, and i know i will not make the achievement, but it was quite a ride trying to get there.

The tips i have is:

1) Don't go Feudal too early, try to murder or disinherit your children as much as you can , and don't worry about the traditions, they are massively under-powered anyway, so just spend that renown like the worthless currency it is.

2) indulgences are the ONLY way to fly, once you go Feudal, since army upkeep is so ridiculously expensive, and people get upset if you end up in debt. For this achievement you need to reform Boori religion and i strongly recommend you receive that sweet cash influx every now and then.

3) go For Egypt as soon as you can, their development and holdings density will break you in the end if you don't keep them in check early.

The bugs that contributed to this failure:
- Celibacy perk+decision does literally nothing, you still get pregnant (this is a known/reported bug)
- AI allies bugging out and doing nothing (known/reported bug)
- Fervor collapse bug/bad design (same thing, really. known/reported bug)
- AI picking the wrong marriage-type for grandchildren (and in general. known/reported bug)
- Random loss of Devotion levels due to doing literally nothing (besides naming my cat)
- Confederate Partition existing


Beside my personal inability to chase the Jahan out of their ONE county they have in Africa (lol me), the greatest problem is fervor collapse and the subsequent heresies/people reverting to Old Boori, and then staring the old boring 'polulist uprising' treadmill every 10 years.

Also the Muwalladi's, [BLEEP] the Muwalladi's and their false prophet.

[edit]
Added religion map to show just how hopeless the situation is.
Fervor scaling with an inverse relation to the size of the religion is REALLY Boori-damned stupid. someone-should-be-spanked stupid.

20201014022444_1.jpg
 
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Lightbanee

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Chastity is a trait, it's only meant to reduce fertility. That's not a bug you're still supposed to have kids with it, Celibacy in the medical tree is the one where you stop having kids.

Fervor collapse isn't a bug, but it certainly is a wonky mechanic at least now they've toned down how rampant the heresies are when they do erupt. A suggestion I have for countering heresy is the cultural perk that increases religious conversion if the tile is of your culture it also works the other way if the tile is of your religion you can culture convert faster.

The matri bug is an annoyance, with a very simple fix that's been completely ignored seemingly, though what else needs to be fixed is logic. My 14 year old heir who somehow is landed in a different empire don't know how that even happened to begin with is betrothed to a 42 year old woman. AI logic is screwed on that.
 

Bodemdrift

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Chastity is a trait, it's only meant to reduce fertility. That's not a bug you're still supposed to have kids with it, Celibacy in the medical tree is the one where you stop having kids.
Sorry, i guess i switched the words. I took the Celibacy decision from the Restraint perkand still got pregnant. i filed a bug when it happened last playthrough/atempt.
Updated original text.
 
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Bodemdrift

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The conversion perk is useless at this scale though, it still takes 3-5 years, and new heresies pop up faster than that, plus growth (necessary for the Achievement) also adds more infidels by definition.
 
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Ming725

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1) Don't go Feudal too early, try to murder or disinherit your children as much as you can , and don't worry about the traditions, they are massively under-powered anyway, so just spend that renown like the worthless currency it is.

2) indulgences are the ONLY way to fly, once you go Feudal, since army upkeep is so ridiculously expensive, and people get upset if you end up in debt. For this achievement you need to reform Boori religion and i strongly recommend you receive that sweet cash influx every now and then.

3) go For Egypt as soon as you can, their development and holdings density will break you in the end if you don't keep them in check early.

The bugs that contributed to this failure:
- Celibacy perk+decision does literally nothing, you still get pregnant (this is a known/reported bug)
- AI allies bugging out and doing nothing (known/reported bug)
- Fervor collapse bug/bad design (same thing, really. known/reported bug)
- AI picking the wrong marriage-type for grandchildren (and in general. known/reported bug)
- Random loss of Devotion levels due to doing literally nothing (besides naming my cat)
- Confederate Partition existing
My personal opinion on this achievement:
1. You should reform as soon as you can. I don't quite get why do you not want to go feudal. Tech level is much better than tribal and you can start building up your domain and get income.
2. I didn't take communion. It's a good choice but it's absolutely not necessary. Get yourself some good holdings in Egypt, build up for 1 generation and should be fine with money.
3. I agree with going for Egypt, also converting to Egyptian is good for tech boosting, they are one of the more advanced cultures in the beginning.

Also:
- For confederate partition, try to hold land so that you can only create one Empire, which should be the starting one. Don't go into Mali and Guinea too deep.
- For domain partition, conquer one Kingdom or duchy for each of your children except for your heir. Then your heir can get your capital duchy in full, which is usually enough to fill up your domain limit especially if you use lay clergy to also hold the temples.
- Fervor will collapse and you just have to deal with it. One trick is to ask conversion. Go to character finder and select "Not Bori", then ask conversion for those who have a high opinion of you. If they convert this way their capital county will convert with them, saving you a lot of time. Send gifts beforehand if necessary.
 
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Ming725

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Forgot to mention, I took mendicant preachers, which seem to encourage AI to convert their own counties. the lands I conquer are usually converted by AI rulers without any intervention from me.
 
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Lightbanee

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Forgot to mention, I took mendicant preachers, which seem to encourage AI to convert their own counties. the lands I conquer are usually converted by AI rulers without any intervention from me.
Doesn't really even need it, I had Pursuit of Power and Pentarchy as my power traits and when I formed my religion the former now heretic religion just melted away rather quickly.
 

Bodemdrift

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Doesn't really even need it, I had Pursuit of Power and Pentarchy as my power traits and when I formed my religion the former now heretic religion just melted away rather quickly.
thanks for the tip, i'll consider this in my next attempt
 

Ordev

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You don't need to worry about the heresy of your reformed religion much. There's only going to be one (the original faith - old bori or whichever you reformed), and it still counts towards getting the achievement - mine popped with several old bori counties still in the realm. You only need to convert the actual infidel counties, which is easiest done by convincing your infidel vassals to convert with a high learning likeable ruler, but mendicant preachers & high learning court chaplain help clean up the rest.

Unite Africa decision also has a high chance to flip infidel counties which OP didn't seem to do.

Blood tree renown perks are useful to get to have a constant supply of 20+ stats councillors and vassals in a couple generations, perks from other trees like control growth, better education are useful as well, but it's generally worth more to pick the first/second perks from various trees than completing a tree - the final perks are a bit overcosted.

None of the gamey tactics like murdering children/farming indulgences described are actually necessary. Fervour will stay high if you don't use holy wars as the main means of your expansion, simply use claims or conquest CB from warmonger/pursuit of power tenets (if you go with warmonger, good to be head of faith to prevent fervour loss from AI-triggered great holy wars).

Keep your direct line of inheritance in your court and then you can freely control the marriages of grandchildren and grand-grand children, again not an issue. Don't land the heir, land the non-heir children to control title loss from partition. With the amount of expansion you'll be doing all the time to unite Africa you won't lose much personal domain on succession if at all.

In general the achievement is doable within 200-300 years (I finished it around 1100 using the tips above). The fact OP didn't manage over the whole timespan of the game and yet presents his 'tips' as the only way to play is what prompted me to make the post. Way too much disinformation going around, and the attitude of "I can't be bad at the game, it's a BUG and BAD DESIGN" is laughable.
 
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Lightbanee

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thanks for the tip, i'll consider this in my next attempt
Pentarchy gives you a buff to fervor regain based on each holy site you obtain and Warmonger is better for tribal since Pursuit of Power gives you the same conquest CBs but you don't have the vassal penalty. So until my religion got a -93% fervor regain penalty I was consistently over 70% fervor.
 
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TheHelmar

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Unless you for some reason don't want to go feudal at all you should do it as early as possible.
"Not too early" seems to be terrible advice.
 
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Ming725

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Doesn't really even need it, I had Pursuit of Power and Pentarchy as my power traits and when I formed my religion the former now heretic religion just melted away rather quickly.
It's not about the former heresy, it's about the lands you newly conquered. In my run I just granted the newly conquered heathen lands to AI vassals and they converted most of them pretty quickly. I got the achievement 2 years after my last conquest
 

Siri

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The conversion perk is useless at this scale though, it still takes 3-5 years, and new heresies pop up faster than that, plus growth (necessary for the Achievement) also adds more infidels by definition.
It's not. If you pick tenets and doctrines that support conversion (fundamentalist, mendicant preachers, temporal head of faith, lay clergy) and get the two perks in learning that aids conversion, and ideally use a befriend scheme on your court chaplain, you can get conversion speed up really high. Heresies do not happen every 5 years. I've done the achievement multiple times because of bugs (starting as achievements not working, and then mother of us all just unlocking in the game and not steam), and I had less than 5 heresy outbreaks per go. In the one where I actually got the achievement, I had two.

1602801925530.png


This was also in no way my best court chaplain. I've had it down to 6 months per county, and vassals do help with the conversion to some degree.
 
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Bodemdrift

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It's not. If you pick tenets and doctrines that support conversion (fundamentalist, mendicant preachers, temporal head of faith, lay clergy) and get the two perks in learning that aids conversion, and ideally use a befriend scheme on your court chaplain, you can get conversion speed up really high. Heresies do not happen every 5 years. I've done the achievement multiple times because of bugs (starting as achievements not working, and then mother of us all just unlocking in the game and not steam), and I had less than 5 heresy outbreaks per go. In the one where I actually got the achievement, I had two.

View attachment 642202

This was also in no way my best court chaplain. I've had it down to 6 months per county, and vassals do help with the conversion to some degree.
how in the Nine Hells of Baator did you get a chaplain with a score over 25, let alone 45 ? :D
 
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Bodemdrift

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Unless you for some reason don't want to go feudal at all you should do it as early as possible.
"Not too early" seems to be terrible advice.
You suffer a collapse in levies if you do it before you are prepared and have good development, also it helps to have thousands of gold so you can build out your holdings
 

Pollux26

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You suffer a collapse in levies if you do it before you are prepared and have good development
This is ridiculously contradictory, and even then, meaningless.

If you want high development, you stop being a tribe after the first 20 years of the game. Period. Also; good MAA stacks can defeat levies multiple times their sizes. You don't really need all that much gold to make buildings. And saving it is quite easy. Moreover, so long as you don't reform too quickly but you do feudalize, you'll be able to raid still.
 

Foefaller

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The secret to fast conversion isn't learning perks, it's politics.

You see, when you convince a landed character to convert via demand conversion (forced conversion release from prison doesn't work) it also instantly converts their capital county.

What I did to stamp out the last bits of heresy/wrong faith in my run was to get in into the hands of someone of the wrong faith who by hooks or diplomacy I could easily get them to convert and convert the counties that way. Turned what would have been a few decades of preaching into a few years of title revokes and swaying.
 
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Ming725

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Jul 20, 2019
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how in the Nine Hells of Baator did you get a chaplain with a score over 25, let alone 45 ? :D
Lay Clergy and temporal revocable clergy. With a huge empire some of your vassals/relatives will have high learning, given how easy it is easy to get learning in this game.

Also one of the Bori holy site gives +5 learning to all Bori followers.
 
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