The most useless and the best idea

[TejaAmelung]

Hey guys, just curious about what's the most useless idea in your opinion. For me it's the administrative idea because I use a lot of mercs without them and doing just fine. Plus admin-power is too valueble to me to invest in it.

The best idea is kinda tricky because it depends on the play-style. But I think defensive idea is extremely great. Won me so many a war.

 

[hauptman]

I simply regret any time I do not take diplomatic, religious and defensive as my first 3 choices. Those 3 are by far the best overall.


Most useless is exploration...

 

[TejaAmelung]

I think exploration comes in handy sometimes. I play as Japan and I wanted to colonise but there's no way I can if I don't explore it in the first place. On the other hand it really depends on which country you play. I took religious as Ottomans once... was the most stupid thing I ever did

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

I simply regret any time I do not take diplomatic, religious and defensive as my first 3 choices. Those 3 are by far the best overall.


Most useless is exploration...

Exploration is useful if you're playing Exploration countries...

 

[balmung60]

Most useless: Espionage.

Most useful: If you're colonizing: Exploration (if not, it's pretty much the most useless), otherwise, probably Religious.

 

[cwg9]

It really depends on your country, the geopolitical situation and your objectives. All the idea groups can be good in certain situations for certain strategies.

 

[birincikalite]

Most useless: Espionage.

Most useful: If you're colonizing: Exploration (if not, it's pretty much the most useless), otherwise, probably Religious.

Espionage is the most fun multiplayer idea group in game

 

[hauptman]

Meh, i simply wait the 25 years for knowledge spread to start colonizing, early game, colonization range is too short for anyone other than castile and portugal do do any colonizing... by the time you get diplo tech 7 (and it's range) you can see everything already.

You do not need conquistadors to explore a nation you are at war with... so the only benefit they give is wasted. Their only use is to uncover unpopulated land... and well, you can uncover it by populating land next to it.

 

[Novacat]

It really depends on your country, the geopolitical situation and your objectives. All the idea groups can be good in certain situations for certain strategies.

This. Barring a few exceptions.

Most useless -
Diplomatic: The problem is that the most useful bonuses you get out of it, you also get out of expansion, and expansion is overall better, making it only a valid choice if you already have expansion and need even more diploslots/diplorelations
Espionage: If it was in diplo tree, it would be a good choice, but considering that the admin tree has shitloads of competition, espionage just simply loses out. Still, it is fairly useful for OPMs whom dont intend to grow very large.
Quantity: An idea tree that fails at its intended task, it does a very bad job of allowing you to field more troops.

As for most useful, it really depends on your playstyle, your country, and your goals.

 

[WeissRaben]

I often find that Quality is a well-rounded idea group...maybe too well-rounded. If you are landlocked, 3 ideas out of 7 are useless. Maybe it should be split between Land and Naval quality.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

Meh, i simply wait the 25 years for knowledge spread to start colonizing, early game, colonization range is too short for anyone other than castile and portugal do do any colonizing... by the time you get diplo tech 7 (and it's range) you can see everything already.

You do not need conquistadors to explore a nation you are at war with... so the only benefit they give is wasted. Their only use is to uncover unpopulated land... and well, you can uncover it by populating land next to it.

But if you want to colonize a lot, 1 colonist isn't enough...plus, you don't get the CB on pagans.

 

[Apophenia]

Espionage may not be the most efficient idea group but I definitely enjoy picking it up because it is fun. Having access to all those extra spy actions is entertaining. Not an idea group I will pick of every game or really recommend for power games but still fun.

 

[hauptman]

But if you want to colonize a lot, 1 colonist isn't enough...plus, you don't get the CB on pagans.

What's 1 more CB when you have 3 others to use.

Granted that cb doesnt require being neighbors... but using my 1 colonist from expansion to colonize karankarwa instantly gives me 3 CBs against aztec (religoius, goverment, and claim).

And one colonist is all you need to paint a region your color, if you have cash.


The only nice things about exploration are viceroys and tariff bonuses... those I miss. Even the addition of the india company isnt worth wasting a slot on exploration because i make more money from 50+ mercantilsm.

 

[balmung60]

I often find that Quality is a well-rounded idea group...maybe too well-rounded. If you are landlocked, 3 ideas out of 7 are useless. Maybe it should be split between Land and Naval quality.

Except, until 1.3 (and then we'll still have to test to be sure), Quality has two ideas (the discipline and the faster morale recovery) that do anything. All the combat ability modifiers just plain don't work right now (or at least not measurably so).

 

[WeissRaben]

Except, until 1.3 (and then we'll still have to test to be sure), Quality has two ideas (the discipline and the faster morale recovery) that do anything. All the combat ability modifiers just plain don't work right now (or at least not measurably so).

Indeed, but I was pointing at another thing altogether - I expect that 1.3 will bring combat modifiers back to level. Naval ideas are there to stay, instead, still as useless to Switzerland as they are right now.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Best : Defensive. Double Supply, and permanent 1% attrition, combined with all other bonuses, make it Idea that sooner or later you MUST have. Aspecialy SINCE AI in germany is allways taking it, and lot of other AI's take it too. Because it is just so awesome. And it is simply a must in any MP game for sure. Not nessecity to take it as first idea, but for any country with 6 MIL ruler, it is obvious choice for first NI group, aspecialy if he got 6 MIL heir. Or any decent MIL heir. Other NI's might be usefull, but this is propably the only idea one must have. Nevermind if you are land, naval, colonial, trader, opm, empire, it will allways come of use.

Most Useless : Spies. Realy only usefull in MP game, when every player uses it. AI is simply too stiupid to use it, and despite the troll value, it is not like you cannot achieve your goals without it. It is not TOTALY useless, but is the worst of the lot.

 

[AdmRepublic]

Exploration is a gamble. Picking exploration as The Hansa, I was trucking on fine for a long while until the allied Portugal-England and Spain declared colonial war on me... That turned those DIP points into a huge waste instantly :laugh:

 

[niallmcfc]

Easily the best I've found is the Offensive tree. In 1.2 at least, leaders mean so much in battle and getting a guaranteed +1 in every battle stat makes things so much easier. Forced march and more manpower as well have saved me so many times. Can't go a game without it.

Honorable mention to plutocratic ideas, I just don't play enough republics to use it often enough, since RM + Diplo-Vassalisation are such great options.

Innovative ideas are probably my worst. Only decent ideas there are the War Ex. and the tech ones- and -5% isn't even that much (especially compared to plutocratic -10%)

 

[WeissRaben]

Easily the best I've found is the Offensive tree. In 1.2 at least, leaders mean so much in battle and getting a guaranteed +1 in every battle stat makes things so much easier. Forced march and more manpower as well have saved me so many times. Can't go a game without it.

Honorable mention to plutocratic ideas, I just don't play enough republics to use it often enough, since RM + Diplo-Vassalisation are such great options.

Innovative ideas are probably my worst. Only decent ideas there are the War Ex. and the tech ones- and -5% isn't even that much (especially compared to plutocratic -10%)

Innovative triggers among the best events in the game, but this isn't immediately obvious.

 

[dezuman]

Innovative triggers among the best events in the game, but this isn't immediately obvious.

Makes agricultural revolution something around twice as likely, and who doesn't love extra tax or manpower?