The MOST useful exploit in the game - alliance hopping

[Castellon]

Originally posted by Lars
The worst, most evil and clearly most used exploit is the save. It makes so you cannot loose a war!!!

If you want yuo colonies will all have 100% sucsess rate and you wont loose a single battle.

Now stop with all these Exploit threads.

The worst exploit is in fact hacking the save game.

However, live and let live, different strokes for different folks, and all that. If talking about an exploit bothers you just ignore these threads. I find it interesting even if I do not intend to use the particular one being discussed, to see the inventiveness of the player.
I would note that it also helps to see how players find exploits, Seeing this can help betas plug potential problems with HOI and CK.

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by Castellon


The worst exploit is in fact hacking the save game.

However, live and let live, different strokes for different folks, and all that. If talking about an exploit bothers you just ignore these threads. I find it interesting even if I do not intend to use the particular one being discussed, to see the inventiveness of the player.
I would note that it also helps to see how players find exploits, Seeing this can help betas plug potential problems with HOI and CK.

Overall too, the difference between strategy and exploits is rather dubious. Technically the fact that I colonize the most valuable provinces first, send merchants to the most valuable COTs, and actually prepare for war before I declare it are all exploits since the AI doesn't/can't.

Heck, I was reading an AAR the other day where a Turkish player in an MP game release Siebenburgen as a vassal to stop the Austrian player from getting the 1526 inheritance of Hungary event...exploit? yes. Brilliant strategy? that too...

 

[Alerias]

thats a valid and good strategy IMO but the costs are STEEP. Its definitely better early on than later on...

Annexing provinces in defensive wars have costs too... 1BB, same as diploannexing. Diploannexing can often be more viable, but it conflicts with your strat since to diploannex you want to keep your vassals in your alliance, waiting for the right moment to strike Of course inviting a country at war alone into your alliance is a much rarer event.

No really, i think its better to ally with warmongers and trust them to eventually get in trouble while you slowly peel bavaria, wurtember, baden, etc off the map with diploannex. Hmm. Maybe I play Austria too much

All of this does bring a good point up though... I didnt know any DoW even with a CB brought BB... maybe i wont rush switzerland on the first day of the GC then, and follow up with istria/dalmatia run against venice... Those two diplomats could get me two early vassals instead. Hmm. And Bavaria and hungary both likes to get in trouble often early on...

Ironically, this thread helped me alot more to figure out ways to avoid BB than the thread I made asking for help on the topic!

 

[Alerias]

toughie

Just to confirm... if I ally to country X, wheter or not i am alliance leader, and country X proceeds to say the world can kiss my arse and DoW 6 countries without a CB, asks for my help, and I accept... I am considered in a DEFENSIVE war against these 6 countries? Or does that only apply if i am not the alliance leader and/or if I joined the alliance after the war actually started?

The former case would mean that any alliance member asking for your help ALWAYS put you in a defensive war position, right?

And is there any in game way to check who is the agressor in a war, aside from who declared it first?

 

[unmerged(1064)]

Re: toughie

Originally posted by Alerias
Just to confirm... if I ally to country X, wheter or not i am alliance leader, and country X proceeds to say the world can kiss my arse and DoW 6 countries without a CB, asks for my help, and I accept... I am considered in a DEFENSIVE war against these 6 countries? Or does that only apply if i am not the alliance leader and/or if I joined the alliance after the war actually started?

The former case would mean that any alliance member asking for your help ALWAYS put you in a defensive war position, right?

No such luck. In all cases above, you would be the aggressor.

And is there any in game way to check who is the agressor in a war, aside from who declared it first? [/B]

In the ledger under "Current Wars". If you are in the alliance on the left side of the "vs." you are the aggressor. If you are in the alliance on the right, you are the defender.

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by Alerias

All of this does bring a good point up though... I didnt know any DoW even with a CB brought BB... maybe i wont rush switzerland on the first day of the GC then, and follow up with istria/dalmatia run against venice... Those two diplomats could get me two early vassals instead. Hmm. And Bavaria and hungary both likes to get in trouble often early on...

Ironically, this thread helped me alot more to figure out ways to avoid BB than the thread I made asking for help on the topic!

Well, seeing as I started the BB FAQ, though someone else finished it, I do have quite a few BB avoiding strats...did you read my Spain Exploit thread?

As for Austria, generally both Bavaria and Switzerland will DOW someone early on, often Baden. Austria is about the best 'major' for alliance hopping. The tough thing about Austria is avoiding war with Hungary and deciding what to do about Bohemia since they will ALWAYS go protestant before 1536...

And as for venice, wait till they dow Mantua/Ragusa. They will do it shortly after they finish the Hungarian war...

 

[swilhelm73]

Re: toughie

Originally posted by Alerias
Just to confirm... if I ally to country X, wheter or not i am alliance leader, and country X proceeds to say the world can kiss my arse and DoW 6 countries without a CB, asks for my help, and I accept... I am considered in a DEFENSIVE war against these 6 countries? Or does that only apply if i am not the alliance leader and/or if I joined the alliance after the war actually started?

The former case would mean that any alliance member asking for your help ALWAYS put you in a defensive war position, right?

And is there any in game way to check who is the agressor in a war, aside from who declared it first?

To make this clear

1) If the country DOWing calls you as an ally, or you later join their war, you are in an offensive war - provinces cost 2 BB each. You avoid the 1 BB point charge for a DOW, however - this works perfectally well if you want to force vassalize or religiously convert the defenders...

2) If the country being DOW'd calls you as an ally, or you join their alliance later, you are in a defensive war - provinces cost only 1 BB each.

3) If you make a seperate peace with some member of the alliance you are in a defensive war against, !*after*! that peace you will now be in an offensive war.

4) Skyjack's answer about the ledger answers your other question.

 

[Petrarca]

Originally posted by swilhelm73


Well, does this particular strategy at least make me the ruler of exploit hell? I'd hate to have to serve in EU2 heaven instead...

This isn't that bad- only the second or third circle for you. Hackers, loansharks, and save-reload types occupy circles eight and nine, so no room for anyone else.

My particular strategy snippet goes like this:
Offensive war (usually the result of defensive war's peace)- vassalize
Defensive war- land grab

 

[Alerias]

thanks!

Thanks for the clarifications, it all makes sense now.

Special thanks for the austrian advice - I suppose allying baden early would be a sound choice then - free defensive war against switzerland is a good thing. Im not too sure about Venice though - i suppose i could always ally with Ragusa...

As for alliance hopping as i said, i like to run my own alliance... definitely has to include hungary asap, baveria, bohemia and now baden and ragusa... i hope i can grab them all before the AI does.

As for dealing with baveria before 1536 - good point, in my first games they always went protestant. This time ill vassalise them at the earliest and diploannex them... wont that make me lose some shields id get through the later events though?

Whats the best long term solution?

 

[PJL]

Originally posted by swilhelm73

Heck, I was reading an AAR the other day where a Turkish player in an MP game release Siebenburgen as a vassal to stop the Austrian player from getting the 1526 inheritance of Hungary event...exploit? yes. Brilliant strategy? that too...

That was me!

 

[Petrarca]

Re: thanks!

Originally posted by Alerias

As for dealing with baveria before 1536 - good point, in my first games they always went protestant. This time ill vassalise them at the earliest and diploannex them... wont that make me lose some shields id get through the later events though?

Whats the best long term solution?

You mean Bohemia, right?

 

[unmerged(10456)]

One time i played as Poland and turned to protestant about 1530. I hoped Bohemia (with 2 prot incl cap, 2 cath provinces) would turn protestant and free themselves from Austrian vassalage. They never did! Annoyed i attacked Austria, Bohemia and Bavaria in 1590s and changed their (Bohemian) religion as a result of the piece. However they had converted one of their prot provs to catholicism and turned catholic again about 7 years after the piece treaty. Austria finally annexed them in 1630s

 

[joak]

Re: Re: toughie

Originally posted by swilhelm73

3) If you make a seperate peace with some member of the alliance you are in a defensive war against, !*after*! that peace you will now be in an offensive war.

One more sub-condition: if you are the alliance leader for that war (the guy that was actually DoW'd), you stay in a defensive war no matter who you make a separate peace with.

(Possibly except for a separate peace with the alliance leader or a separate peace which involves annexing someone--I've never checked those).

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by PJL


That was me!

I have to say I was impressed...it was something I would never have thought of...

I do have to ask though - why on earth as Turkey would you help Spain and Austria? I would have just been waiting for the Austro-French war to attack Austria myself...

 

[Carolus Rex]

Bah! A good way to spoil a game!

 

[unmerged(6159)]

I have a feeling a lot of people are playing on furious. I don't think this strategy will work on cowardly!

 

[Alerias]

Yes, i meant bohemia.

So.. does the event gives austria shields in bohemia??

 

[swilhelm73]

I usually play on aggresive. Obviously the higher the aggression setting, the more wars to choose from - but I presume there are still wars at cowardly too, right?

 

[Petrarca]

Originally posted by Alerias
Yes, i meant bohemia.

So.. does the event gives austria shields in bohemia??

The event that starts the 30YW does IIRC- if the Palatinate still exists.

 

[Alerias]

Re: Re: toughie

In the ledger under "Current Wars". If you are in the alliance on the left side of the "vs." you are the aggressor. If you are in the alliance on the right, you are the defender. [/B]

You know, ill surely be damned to hell for all eternity, but i cant find the damn current wars ledger for the sake of my soul. Bad pun intended

Can you point out to its general direction?