The MOST useful exploit in the game - alliance hopping

[swilhelm73]

This isn't the most blantantly exploitive strategy available in EU2, but it is the most effective.

Once you get to be pretty good at EU2, your primary obstacle isn't the strength of your country, tech group, etc, but instead your BB score. Your goal is therefore to gain as many provinces for as few BB points as possible.

DOWing with a CB costs 1 BB point, and in an offensive war you pay 2 BB points per province. These are steep costs. Gor an example, DOW your neighbor and take three provinces and you will be waiting, depending on difficutly level, between 28 and 56 years to work off the BB points.

So you want to avoid making DOWs and taking land in offensive wars. This is where what I call alliance hopping comes in.

Generally, at least some of your neighbors will be at war with someone. Find who they DOW'd in the diplomacy window and join their opponents alliance. You are now in a defensive war with your neighbor. Take the provinces you want and you pay the BB min - 0 since you didn't DOW and 1 point per province you take. This works really well in obtaining vassals too.

After you are done with your current target, repeat to your heart's content. Leaving alliances only costs you 1 point of stab. You will occasionally need to bribe the leader of the alliance you want into, but a few hundred ducats for free BB points is a bargain.

 

[unmerged(8576)]

I refuse to even comment.

Just know that by posting this, you are hereby condemned for all eternity.

 

[unmerged(9563)]

No dignity.

Lets wait to see what BiB says. He's like the god of EU2.

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by Oleg
I refuse to even comment.

Just know that by posting this, you are hereby condemned for all eternity.

Well, does this particular strategy at least make me the ruler of exploit hell? I'd hate to have to serve in EU2 heaven instead...

 

[Castellon]

Just watch yourself because if you make a seperate peace with one member of the enemy alliance you are now considered in an offensive war with the rest.

 

[unmerged(8576)]

Originally posted by swilhelm73


Well, does this particular strategy at least make me the ruler of exploit hell? I'd hate to have to serve in EU2 heaven instead...

Of course it doesn´t, galley slave!

Everyone knows in exploit hell, BiB´s the master, cracking a whip on your naked back, screaming Bah!

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by Castellon
Just watch yourself because if you make a seperate peace with one member of the enemy alliance you are now considered in an offensive war with the rest.

That's why if you do it perfectally, you end up with a bunch of provinces from one country in the enemy alliance and 4 new vassals!

 

[unmerged(8576)]

And you do this?

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by Oleg
And you do this?

Sometimes. Its amusing to play the avenging angel of the DOW'd of Europe. "Bad France. Down Boy - let go of Lorraine - and no more Provence for you!"

 

[unmerged(8576)]

Ok, as long as you don´t do it for yerself.

 

[unmerged(9994)]

I don't think it's quite the same thing, but after a war with a large alliance of German minors, I like to hop into their alliance to protect my new vassals.

 

[unmerged(5664)]

There seem like to many disadvantages to this strategy I wouldn't call it an exploit.

First, thre are no guarantees aboutt being able to find a good alliance in war withthe correct country. Then there's the risk that a peace will be declared robbing you of any benefits.

Plus, when you leave your alliance your former allies get a CB against you...

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by BarristerBoy
There seem like to many disadvantages to this strategy I wouldn't call it an exploit.

First, thre are no guarantees aboutt being able to find a good alliance in war withthe correct country. Then there's the risk that a peace will be declared robbing you of any benefits.

Plus, when you leave your alliance your former allies get a CB against you...

True enough...however;

1) As far as picking your targets, take your time. For example, let's suppose you want to go to war with France and have 4 BB points. At Very Hard, you can wait 24 years for France to DOW someone before you hit 0 BB...when the wait for that is normally about 24 seconds.

2) You really have to judge the situation as to when peace will be declared. Unless your alliance leader is getting its butt whipped, most wars will go for about 2 years. Strike fast and hard and take an easy peace if you think the war won't last much longer. Once you can assault, you should be able to get 2 provinces in a peace deal within six months of war normally.

3) Well, let's put it this way, I believe in the 8 rule in regards to the EU2 AI...it has to be about 8 times stronger than me to have any chance to beat me in a war - giving up cash I don't count as losing a war mind you - only losing land. The AI DOWing me happens so rarely between 5 years into the game and BB wars that I welcome it!!! BTW, I think this is more the AI weakness in combat than any godlike skills on my part.

I mention that this isn't that exploitive overall, becasue their are drawbacks, and more importantly shifting alliance for a country's immediate benefit happened on a number of occasions - see Brandenburg and Burgundy history for some obvious examples. To make it more realistic their should be maybe a 50-100 point diplo penalty with your former allies and a 2 year cb.

The biggest drawbacks I've found to this strategy are that the AI will play pac-man with all those weak vassals you tend to leave around and you can run into stability issues too...though I have been nailed a couple of times by an unexpected AI alliance leader peace deal.

 

[Steel]

The biggest drawbacks I've found to this strategy are that the AI will play pac-man with all those weak vassals you tend to leave around

Surely that's only beneficial for your strategy. The aggressive AI nation will take a BB hit for annexation and you can then conquer the province from them, boosting your province count at minimum cost.

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by Steel


Surely that's only beneficial for your strategy. The aggressive AI nation will take a BB hit for annexation and you can then conquer the province from them, boosting your province count at minimum cost.

Not really.

Remember Vassals count only 1BB per province when you diploannex them - this is as cheap in BB points as a province gets (well, minus defections and shields)

When a couple of the larger AI countries you haven't hurt go on an annexing spree, they wipe out your vassals and get alot of badboy points. BB doesn't hurt medium and larger AI powers in the least because they don't have to fight human style BB wars. All it does is make them hate YOU. Trying to buy your way into a mammoth AI power you are at -200 to stat with can get really expensive. If you use your 'free' CBs to then DOW these guys you are paying full price BBwise for your provinces - 1 per DOW + 2 per province

Further, as the number of countries around you goes dramtically down, the opportunities to alliance hop start to drop. So, *if* you can protect you vassals till them, you can then just feed off them for cheap provinces BBwise until you are ready to kick off the BB wars.

Now, OTOH, if you can get your allies and neighbors to annex your 1 province vassals whom are shield provinces for you, you are getting a great deal - its the key to playing the Ottomans. "Hey Sheep Herders -want some cheap provinces for cheap? Just let me, your old pal, Osman, into the alliance. Go ahead, you annex those Trebizondians and Candarians (for now)..."

 

[Owl]

Alliance-hopping? Interesting and clever way of amusing yourself (and beating the system, which is always fun) but personally I couldn't be bothered with all the diplomacy and bribery required to allow you to join the alliance you fancy. Well, not repeatedly anyway ......
and don't you get a stab hit and minus points to relations whenever you leave an existing alliance?

 

[unmerged(1064)]

Not an exploit. It is a useful technique which I usually use once or twice per game. During the time period of the game, countries switched alliances quite often. (I am thinking particularly of the german minors during the thirty years war.)

Taking advantage of the shifting world/political conditions is one of the most interesting parts of this game.

And IMHO, I think the disadvantages prevent you from making a whole game out of this technique.

 

[PJL]

Originally posted by swilhelm73

Now, OTOH, if you can get your allies and neighbors to annex your 1 province vassals whom are shield provinces for you, you are getting a great deal - its the key to playing the Ottomans. "Hey Sheep Herders -want some cheap provinces for cheap? Just let me, your old pal, Osman, into the alliance. Go ahead, you annex those Trebizondians and Candarians (for now)..."

This is not a good idea (BB wise) if you plan to diplo-annex any vassals that have 2 or more of your CB shields, it will still incur 1 BB per province. This has big implications for certain countries, most notably France, where it would make more sense (in reducing BB) to cancel her vassals, DOW them until they are a 1 province vassal, and then diplo-annex.

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by PJL


This is not a good idea (BB wise) if you plan to diplo-annex any vassals that have 2 or more of your CB shields, it will still incur 1 BB per province. This has big implications for certain countries, most notably France, where it would make more sense (in reducing BB) to cancel her vassals, DOW them until they are a 1 province vassal, and then diplo-annex.

Hence I noted if they are shield province minors.

Getting Akk Konulu to annex Candar and Trebizond, if you can manage it, for example, saves you a bunch of BB as Turkey.

 

[unmerged(3236)]

The worst, most evil and clearly most used exploit is the save. It makes so you cannot loose a war!!!

If you want yuo colonies will all have 100% sucsess rate and you wont loose a single battle.

Now stop with all these Exploit threads.