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Elmaz

Corporal
Community Ambassador
Dec 18, 2019
39
312
Salvete omnes!

As tradition demands, today is the day I have the pleasure of sharing with you the ranking of your suggestions posted during the previous week within the SPQR, so let's go!

We find in the first position of this ranking CaptinObvious' s thread entitled "We need to improve generic missions and add a few more." which got 11 votes. As its title indicates, this suggestion consists of a detailed list of additions and modifications for missions.
(don't worry for the wall of text, it's mostly organised into smaller points under two chapters, each into it's one points)

Chapter I: current missions

As it stands right now, there are three missions, insert Monty Python meme, they're 'meh' at best and bad at worst, and it's pretty clear from the difference between the most recent missions set, Epirus, that the devs have vastly improved their skill at making these, as is evident by the improvement from the first mission pack, the Punic Wars, which was kind of a boring 'paint the map' ordeal, which is also when we got the first and only set of generic missions, so I think it's high time we give them a redo, and add a few more

1) The matter of x

Of the three, this is the most boring one, it also has some weird design decisions, from the start, the first task is to hold an internal debate on how to approach the matter of x, which is weird considering that the diplomatic path of the task gives Diplo rep, and it *increases* war score cost, as if it needed to be higher

the issue is is that it's all the same, you still get claims on the first round of areas to take, and you still need to take them by the sword, so you might as well go agro and take that reduced WS cost to make your life 5% easier

if the devs want some sort of diplomatic approach, then they should either commit to it, by making this mission set into to bifurcates, one Diplo and one Agro, or have the Diplo mission be separate, what I'd suggest

Further, this mission set also asks you to appoint someone from one of two great families as the governor, not only is this bad design, as is the great families system itself, though that is a separate discussion, it's bad because you most likely already have a governor there, and God help you if you don't have a mod that makes governor policies free of PI charge, further, you most likely also have already satisfied all the needs of all the great families, so it winds up being annoying, I personally either pre-appoint the governor from one of the two randomly chosen great families, or if it's a new province, or just appoint the dude and fire him.

My suggestion for this is to make it so that there are still to options, one is called Nepotism and the other called Homo Novus

Nepotism is one where the governor is already a member of a great family, and it gives according bonuses
The second is when the governor is a minor character, and should give a meritocratic boost

Further, I suggest the ability to further entrench the concept, giving double the reward in exchange for some sort of drawback to the other side (Minor vs Major)

Another awful thing about this mission is a combination of two points, it wants you to take all the land it suggests, and it also, AFAIK, doesn't distinguish between allied powers and enemies that are much stronger than you, it could ask you to both attack your allies and a power two ranks above in the same mission

The solution is to either

a) make it ignore allied territory
b) make allied territory optional

this logic should also apply to powers more than 2 ranks above you, as asking you to solo Phrygia is not a funny joke

That's most of what I have to say for this tree, it's not soo bad, but it's not good either


2) the pearl of x

Of all the missions, this is the least bad, it's almost good actually, it asks you to expand trade in your capital, upgrade it to a metro, and embark on a renovation campaign, overall, it's the most 'good' of the three mission sets, not a lot to say here, but it does use one or two task trees from the 3rd set of missions, which are better discussed there

3) Stabilise and grow / growth of x

These two missions share a bunch of task trees, so it's more beneficial to talk about them separately

a) [Culture] settlements: not a bad mission tree on the whole, it takes a city, asks you to build stuff in it, and converts some manpower into pops

b) Trade task tree, this used to be one of the worst ones, it asks for all ports of a given area to be cities, with a fort, and then building two markets each, this used to be a bad idea, but since markets have been made better, and so has forts, it's kinda not bad, and the reward is also good (two citizens/port), it also has an optional bit, which is just bad, Shipyards of [province cap], which wants an import of wood, and three frikin foundries.....quit trying to make us build foundries against our will PDS, they're just bad

with the recent changes to ports, foundries should be replaced with a high-level port building
the reward is at least nice, which is a bunch of heavy ships, if only 5 of them

c) Fruits of x, this is one is the worst, it asks you to build a farming estate in_every_food_producing_tile.....this could easily cost over a thousand talents, and it's not at all useful, you may not even have enough slaves to work all the land, and unlike the mining task tree, it doesn't even spawn in a few extra slaves for you

it then has one of the most brain dead choices in all of history, you can either spend some food to gain a global 120 month-long freemen happiness bost.....

or spend a gargantuan amount of resources to make the food-producing area have a larger food stockpile......

I suggest redoing this tree from scratch, it should only ask you to build farming estates on grain tiles, and just like the mining tree, it should also spawn extra slaves

the choice between Bread and Circuses or Regional food source should be made into an actual choice

Bread and Circuses should have a weaker but permanent bonus, while the Regional food source should either increase production, either via more slaves or as extra base production or make it so that the whole region can somehow 'siphon' food from this one area

oh, it also has an optional task to change the output of one tile to horses, which is fine I guess, but it also asks you to first import horses? which sounds weird, IMO its task should also apply to camels, elephants, and step horses

d) mining, this one is also bad, but not as offensively so as the farming one

It starts off by asking for you to build mines on every mineable tile......with again, can cost up to a thousand, at least it also gives slave output.....and then it asks for a large upfront payment of way too much, again, up to over a thousand, so in the first two tasks it asks you to spend something like 1.5k-2k gold right off the bat...it also used to ask for an import of olives, which made it hilariously hard outside the med, it now also accepts wood, at least this one gives 3 slaves/ mine, which is it's only saving grace, as that is a good reward

there is also an optional side task where you spend even more money to change the production of tiles to minable goods....do I need to say anything?

overall, the base three missions are not great, I have already given my opinion on how to improve them


Chapter II:

But now let us talk of what to be added, this section is going to be a bit vaguer than the last, as it is the realm of the unknown, and I am getting a bit tired

1) a mission tree that focuses on internal stability

it should consist of several branches

a) if stability is bellow 60, there should be a tree focusing on increasing it by doing/giving favours to powerful internal characters to increase stability and secure their backing

b) if tyranny is high, then there should be a tree that focuses on mending internal grievances, and on appeasing slighted parties, either families or political, by either giving back taken property, releasing prisoners, making public shows of solidarity, etc

c) if you have a lot of governates, there should be a tree to boost governor loyalty, either by nepotism, or by reinforcing the governate with troops, or buildings

d) if there are a lot of foreign culture pops, there should be a tree to help with either integration or assimilation

e) a path for each type of government that focus on that type of government, securing the succession in monarchies, making deals with senate parties, or appeasing the clan chiefs

2) a mission tree that focuses on the buildup of the armed forces

a) if you have a levy force, this mission should task you with increasing the size of the levy, by building training camps and barracks, and making it composition better, somehow, as we sadly don't have access to 2.0, this will have to be left here

b) a branch centred around Legions, where you are tasked with building you first, if you haven't, improving training standards (starting xp), expanding the manpower pool by conducting a census, and further expansion, there should also be a sid task to secure troop loyalty to the central state

c) a path that's concerned with fortifications of major areas, cities, and trade hubs, borders, and important chokes (if that's possible), but not the capital

d) a unique tree to fortify the capital

e) a task concerned with naval buildup, by building ports, supplying them with wood, building mediums and heavies up to snuff with neighbors, and building transports ships (lights)

f) a military reform path, centred around obtaining military XP (a system that I think should be changed entirely, as making it be reliant on drilling kinda doesn't work), and further enhancing you military doctrine, maybe even establishing a school of war for your aristocrats a la Philip II

3) a mission tree that focuses on external diplomacy

a) a task tree that focuses on obtaining suitable allies, not to close as to block expansion, but not too far to be useless, maybe check if you have a common border with someone you both hate, or a certain number of sea tiles

b) if you have allies, a tree to improve opinion, maybe exchange gifts, or aid, in the form of manpower, ships, or a character

c) if you have subjects, this mission focuses on them, same as allies, but if you can annex, then an extra task to do so

d) if there are weaker countries near you, there should be a tree where you court their vassalage

e) if there are stronger countries near you, this tree would focus on improving opinion with them, and seeking a guaranty, or maybe even bending your knee in exchange for protection (become satrap or client king?)

what do you think? also, sorry for such a long post, there simply is a lot to cover in here, also sorry for the dry writing, as I am kinda tired, and couldn't think of too many jokes to slip in.

The second suggestion of this ranking is occupied by EricMN93, thanks to his thread "Realistic debts" which got 8 votes.
Anyone who has had debts in the game will have realized that it is something very unreal, it is true that there are penalties but in many cases it is more worth having debts for an event to appear that brings us money

If we are negative, no miraculous event will appear to solve the problem.You will have to be smart to solve the financial problem



Debt related ideas


1- Ask for money again in a war.


If we ask an enemy for money and we conquer it, their territories will start with 60% less loyalty, thus simulating that they feel looted and massacred.

This idea is to compensate for making continuous wars just for money. Prevent it from becoming abuse.

2-Ask a character for money.

Currently the wealth of the characters does not serve much, except to buy properties.

It would be nice to be able to ask the leader of a family for money, in exchange for your financial help an event will be activated asking for something, for example positions for family members, becoming a general, etc.

In case of being a monarchy and asking for money, a suitor can ask to change the law of succession in exchange.

You will have a period of 6 months to comply with the demands of the lender.

3-Public works.

The ruler will have a unique diplomatic option called public works (it can only be activated when the personal money gain is positive). If this option is selected, all the monthly benefits of personal wealth will go to the state and will be added to the income of this.

Each month the popularity of the ruler will increase and his personal fortune will decrease, thus simulating that the ruler is putting private money to fix the problems of the state.

In the event that your personal fortune reaches zero, the state will no longer receive those earnings


4-Sell territory

Currently we already have this option but the AI rarely offers money in exchange for some territory, this should change if the conditions are met.

In case two civilizations share a province and one of them is in negative numbers, you can sell a territory in exchange for a predefined sum of gold.

settlement 100 gold

city 200 gold

Metropolis 500 Gold

Holy Place 50 extra gold.

5-Sell relics

Give the possibility of selling relics in exchange for gold.


Someday it will be good to see real trade routes that could be looted (both by land and by sea) but for now the next ideas are based on how to get money in an "easy" way to solve debts.


6-Plunder (only available for tribes)

A tribe can create a horde of looters who can invade civilized territories and steal their wealth, it will not be necessary to declare war. The affected civilization can also send its army against the looters, although it cannot go to the looters' territory without starting a war.

7-Piracy

Certain x-tech civilizations could use their ships to capture ships and later sell their commanders to slavers or lay siege to coastal territories.

Basically the idea is to have a very fast fleet that might have a unique option (if the necessary technology has been unlocked) capable of looting the wealth of the coastal territories.

Both looters and pirates should hide where they come from to prevent the affected civilization from knowing where they have attacked them.

These are some ideas to solve debts more realistically than now

.Surely many of these ideas never happened in real history but I try to provide mechanics that could realistically fit

What do you think? How would you change the debt system?

The third place in this ranking goes to the thread "Trade Goods and Buildings Synergies "in which IsaacCAT suggests
create synergies between buildings and trade goods to gate province development and diversify trades. He got 2 votes.

reform warfare so big stacks are no more the best card to play

That's it for this week, citizens! See you next Monday!
 
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I am not sure how you made the time cut. My suggestion was intended for this week SPQR as it was posted today (00:50 CET). Am I wrongly interpreting the SPQR rules?

Also, @melqart_ita suggestion had also 3 votes at the time.

EDITED: you are right, the SPQR rules are clear, 12 AM GMT is +1:00h for CET. My wrong.
 
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I am not sure how you made the time cut. My suggestion was intended for this week SPQR as it was posted today (00:50 CET). Am I wrongly interpreting the SPQR rules?
It seems that I lacked attention. I'm going to edit the ranking. Sorry for that.

Edit: the creation of your publication is displayed at 11:50 pm yesterday on my side, which explains the confusion. I will therefore take this suggestion into account for the current week. :)
 
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It seems that I lacked attention. I'm going to edit the ranking. Sorry for that.

Edit: the creation of your publication is displayed at 11:50 pm yesterday on my side, which explains the confusion. I will therefore take this suggestion into account for the current week. :)
Thank you, but @melqart_ita suggestion deserves third position with three votes, if I am not wrong.

EDITED: the post was also too early for the week. My wrong.

 
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Edit: the creation of your publication is displayed at 11:50 pm yesterday on my side, which explains the confusion. I will therefore take this suggestion into account for the current week. :)
Next time I will post a bit later. I was too anxious. Thank you for the info.

EDITED: you are right, the SPQR rules are clear, 12 AM GMT is +1:00h for CET. My wrong.
 
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