The Most Ancient Dynasties of CK2

[unmerged(49637)]

Well the 100-150 kings estimate is generally based on the number of Trícha Cét which a later construction. If you see a correspondence between trícha cét and tribal kingdom, then there is no reason why we cannot use it for population estimates. Perhaps 500,000 is far to much, but 9,000 isn't worth being called a minimum. I have never seen anything that suggest certain kings were only a cenn fine. Look at the size of the trícha cét as Paul McCotter has them, over 170 in total. It would be impossible to imagine any of them contained a mere 60 individuals.



I'm also remembering that population explosion that occured in the 5th and 6th centuries as a result of the importation of superior agricultural practises, not all of which occured post-Christianity.



I would be fine with that, perhaps more as I feel the population was rising, but 9,000 took me aback.

Ah yes, the 9,000 was more of a conversation in my head of how the O'Neill Y DNA would have needed to overwhelm a minimum of 9,000 people, and if I couldn't imagine the Y DNA overcoming that few, there was no point on my brain continuing further down, Because the DNA more or less says that he produced 21% of the males (who had children) in Northern Ireland throughout Irish History.

Still Id say that your right that much of the population explosion happened prior to Patrick. Id say it actually started around 280 AD and started reaching critical mass around 320 AD when Irish Raiders started appearing in Roman Britain.

Still I think that the population explosion was tempered by migration to Britain. The Early Welsh Kingdoms were very heavily Linked to Ireland so I think that a large amount of "Irish" in c. 350 AD were migrating over to Wales (and maybe Amorica).

Overall I think of Ireland in c. 400 AD as a Celtic type of Greece. The whole Irish Sea was similar to the Aegean Sea in Ancient Greek Times. Many of the "Northern Irish Clans" That existed in that time period swapped shores to Scotland/Pictland, and I believe that many in general swapped to Wales.

I guess theres also a question of how one counts that overflow, and at what "snapshot in time" the picture is taken.

 

[riadach]

Ah yes, the 9,000 was more of a conversation in my head of how the O'Neill Y DNA would have needed to overwhelm a minimum of 9,000 people, and if I couldn't imagine the Y DNA overcoming that few, there was no point on my brain continuing further down, Because the DNA more or less says that he produced 21% of the males (who had children) in Northern Ireland throughout Irish History.

Still Id say that your right that much of the population explosion happened prior to Patrick. Id say it actually started around 280 AD and started reaching critical mass around 320 AD when Irish Raiders started appearing in Roman Britain.

Still I think that the population explosion was tempered by migration to Britain. The Early Welsh Kingdoms were very heavily Linked to Ireland so I think that a large amount of "Irish" in c. 350 AD were migrating over to Wales (and maybe Amorica).

Overall I think of Ireland in c. 400 AD as a Celtic type of Greece. The whole Irish Sea was similar to the Aegean Sea in Ancient Greek Times. Many of the "Northern Irish Clans" That existed in that time period swapped shores to Scotland/Pictland, and I believe that many in general swapped to Wales.

I guess theres also a question of how one counts that overflow, and at what "snapshot in time" the picture is taken.

It would also explain the origin of the peregrinatio, overflow of single males going abroad in order to make a name from themselves. This was probably the case until the great plagues of the 7th and 8th century. Indeed, the life of St. Maedóc of Ferns seems to recall a period of overpopulation, where crop ridges had to be heavily rationed, which is in sharp contrast to the more pastoral 9th, 10th and 11th centuries, though changes in warfare could be held to account.

 

[ekorovin]

So, did Charlemagne brought some awesome ancient families to the plate?

 

[classicist]

So, did Charlemagne brought some awesome ancient families to the plate?

Landed Mamikonians in Armenia!

 

[giant_sloth]

Looks like Karens are now descendants of the ARSACIDS and Bavandids - of SASSANIDS. Yay!

 

[Spartanlemur]

Are the Isaurians and the Anachbadze the only Byzantine dynasties which existed in real life at the new start date? Most of the rulers have no history, so seem to be fictional. I'd like to play as a Byzantine count/strategos in 769 with some heritage.

 

[imperium3]

Woah woah woah there, Sassanid nobles fled to China? I am going to need a sauce on that. That is almost as awesome as the fabled lost legions that supposedly did all kinds of crazy badass things, like take up service as mercenaries for China, and had villages that supposedly are filled with their genetic decedents.

True story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peroz_III

 

[AndreasPhokas]

Are the Isaurians and the Anachbadze the only Byzantine dynasties which existed in real life at the new start date? Most of the rulers have no history, so seem to be fictional. I'd like to play as a Byzantine count/strategos in 769 with some heritage.

it looks like it, Michaeol Lachondrakon of thracesia is a pretty interesting fellow though....and has an epic name.

 

[ekorovin]

it looks like it, Michaeol Lachondrakon of thracesia is a pretty interesting fellow though....and has an epic name.

Intresting fellow for sure (I suppose we can call me Saint-maker), but not of any ancient dinasty. This thread is very snobby

 

[TurtleShroom]

Not counting the Solomonids and their dubious claims, the oldest independent dynasty on the map are the Pandyans, dating from 600BC-ish. The oldest non-independent dynasty is somewhere in northern India, and is apparently mentioned in the Ramayana, but the name eludes me.

I suddenly have an urge to play as a Pandyan and become a Christian (Nestorian?) Byzantine Emperor.

 

[stratigo]

Why were Indian dynasties so resilient? It seems absurd that so many royal houses in the same region (south India) ruled for centuries upon centuries whereas in Europe we're used to the idea that even 200 years or so is a remarkable feat for a dynasty.

Longer recorded history. The "dynasties" of the ancient world were overthrown during the migratory period (not that Rome ever successfully built a true dynasty) and there is little to no written works on the germanic peoples before they invaded.

 

[Fishy101]

What is the definition of the oldest dynasty? Is it one with surviving members, or must they be rulers?

I'm not surprised that the Indian dynasties are the oldest, I've heard it said that India is the oldest continuous civilization.

Interestingly, I am playing as the Pandyans in my current game. This thread definitely made my game more interesting. Although I am wondering if I should wait for the next patch before I continue the game.

A bit out of the scope of the discussion, I heard that Silla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silla) was one of the longest sustaining dynasties.

 

[unmerged(49637)]

Some of the spanish nobles have merovingian ancestors.

 

[Teutonic_Thrash]

A few of the Armenian/Georgian dynasties are descended from the Sassanids and Arsacids.

 

[Jaywebbs]

The Karkota Dynasty in India at the Charlemagne start are pretty old themselves. Still no Katoch though

 

[civfanatic]

The oldest dynasty in CK2 are the Cholas in South India. They are first mentioned in the inscriptions of Ashoka in the 3rd century BCE, and are probably even older than that. Unfortunately, we do not know exactly how old, because the oldest (concretely dated) written inscriptions from India are in fact those same Ashokan inscriptions.

 

[Mudcrab]

Never bothered to check: Are the Grimaldis (Monaco et al) in-game? Cheers.

 

[Joe Hartlock]

Never bothered to check: Are the Grimaldis (Monaco et al) in-game? Cheers.

Yes. They're one of the patrician families in Genoa.

 

[loup99]

One year old necromancy. Avoid doing it, it is against the forum rules.

 

[Dakilla TM]

But it is an interesting subject. With the Horse Lords I'm sure there's a new old dynasty out in the steppes