I'm answering questions in the order they arose, so some early answers may be modified later on according to later questions.
Originally posted by Sun_Zi_36
first of all, nice work. u work much faster than me.
a few comments after first reading it:
*some dp effects if China chose to overwhelm the Mongols? offensive doctrine and land should be increased by 3. and negative the dps when it chose not to invade? -1 to off and land?
*if u decide to mobilise the country for such a huge invasion, seems to me it would more like cost a negative stability hit. stability -4.
I can see the argument for changing the offensive dp-slider setting, though perhaps +3 is too great a change, but not really for the land. It is not like choosing to invade means that China will pay less attention to the navy in the future.
My reasoning for the initial positive stability modifier is that China has grown strong, probably through conquest, or at least some sort of annexation - though it
is possible to do by colonisation within the time frame, and that a decision to end a permanent threat would likely be viewed as beneficial by the majority, even though it would be costly.
*also, to raise troops against the mongols already costs the country manpower and maintenance, so we should takeaway province manpower and tax in the first event (which should correspond with ordinary mongol events). this should not be limited to the border provinces, but the entire northern China to support those invasions (eg all province north of the Yangtze river). these penalties should be temporary.
Bringing staging the invasion closer to the ordinary Mongol events in this way with temporary manpower and tax hits would be neat. Please provide a list of the Northern provinces you are intending to hit, and it will be added. (Also to the victory event, of course )
*this also brings out the related issue that the trigger provinces should actualy be enlarged to cover all northern China.
Provide a list, and.....
This will make it rather more difficult to achieve victory since victory requires control of all the primary and secondary provinces at the same time. If the list grows much longer, it might be relevant to include a tertiary category to cover the provinces in the list furthest from Mongolia which would then receive even lower province revolt risks.
*seems to me, to say that mongols reunite under one chief and counter invade is too deterministic. lets make the wording more general or vague. something like "the attempt to completely overrun the mongols are met with fierce resistance where a bloody war ensued across the region. cost to support the war is forced to very high levels." instead of centralised or local DEFENCE, maybe say centralised or local STRATEGY to deal with the war.
Guess I was in a Genghis Khan or Timur Lenkh mood when I wrote that text. Oh well, you are quite right. I should leave such flights of fantasy to my AARS
*under the above description, it may seem that the second event could actually be merged into the first where the option b to "crush them once and for all" is split into 2 ways to do it entralised or localised strategy. but 2 events is probably a better idea coz u need the second event as a trigger for the third event, the first event cant act as a trigger.
*second event dont need to have stability hits anymore coz of the above.
*if 2 events r to remain, we should distinguish in the 2nd event between permanent tax/manpower hits caused by war/turmoil, and temporary tax/manpower hits caused by further increased support costs. so not all tax/manpower hits has to be permanent.
The two event solution was specifically designed to allow the final event to have something to trigger on. Additionally, since the list of commands are so long, it allows for viewing more of the actual results.
If temporary manpower/tax hits are added as in your other Mongol events, they should happen in the "Mongol Threat" event, while the permanent resulting from the devastating attacks should happen in the "Mongol War" event.
The advantage of keeping the stability hit in the "Mongol War" event is that it can be different depending on which choice you make.
(And boy, is it a devil's choice at the moment. I've tried playing both.)
*between this event and the victory event, a few events could add some spice to the whole thing by creating randomness. we can use the offset trick again, setting the offset to 10 years (assuming victory could be met in around 7 years, otherwise adjust accordingly). the faster the victory conditions r met, the less likely these additional events (usually further penalties) will arise. once the victory event happens, it will sleep all these intermediate events. the events could randomly say stuff like mongol war situation deteriorating or improving, requiring additional/less cost.
I'm not entirely certain that more bad events are needed since fulfilling the victory conditions can be somewhat difficult until you station armies with infantry for assaults in all relevant provinces and retake them simultaneously. (And regain 4 or five stab points in the meanwhile)
*i dont think the treasury or tax/manpower bonus to the capital after victory is necessary, or at least it's too much. end of all mongol events is already a good enough bonus.
Well, it is rather less than the permanent loss (which is distributed over several provinces), and if a tertiary ring covering the rest of Northern China is added, it will be even less relatively.
I'll certainly agree that it isn't necessary - heck, with the Far Eastern Manpower Mod China already has more manpower than a warmonger's wet dream, but I thought it would make for a nice sense of accomplishment in the player when watching his capital
*since u r making completely new events to cover the situation where china weakens after victory, it is not necessary to have a event NOT happened trigger in every ordinary mongol event. it is much easier to sleep all mongol events in "time to fight Mongol hordes event".
Good point. A sleep list can easily be added, once the relevant IDs are known.
*i have some reservations about using random=yes to simulate rebels when china grows weak. the likelihood that it would happen is very uncertain. we may need to think of some other way to do it. perhaps just make it random=no?
Well, the likelyhood is uncertain, but that is fine, since according to the victory description, there weren't all that many Mongols left. I say leave it in the hands of lady luck. Much easier that way. It is relevant to question whether these Mongol raids should have a terminator NOT = { year = 1644 }, or whether they should, in principle, be able to annoy a weakened China for the rest of the game.
now i m picking apart someone else's suggestions too
And you are good at it
i guess 1480 is about right.
fter counting, i found out that 60 provinces would be reached if China conquered Manchuria and Tibet, which seems a bit too easy to achieve. perhaps it should be raised to 75.
75. That is Manchuria, Tibet, Nippon, and Dai Viet, or Machuria, Tibet, and a large slice of Indochina. Okay, that
is strong. If you want China to be
that strong, I would suggest making it 80 provinces instead - since this is just enough to bump China up into the next higher category of Superpower Scaled Random Events.
*deathdate at 1644 could be a problem coz of the new system of becoming China, which could happen at any date. instead, we could make the event dependant on the Manchurain invasion of inner mongolia has NOT occurred, which is not scripted as an event yet.
Give me an ID and... Oh well, will have to wait for the event.
Until then, I'll leave 1644.
*i dont tihnk the event should happen if China controlled 75 provinces but those do not include rich northern China provinces (which eg could be controlled by a revolter nation) where the 7 provinces would only form a narrow corridor. the trigger provinces should inlcude all provinces north of the Yangtze river. same thing in the victory conditons.
Aha! It seems that the list I requested many provinces ago has almost been provided. How far east should it go? Farther east than Jehol and Liaoning?
*the primary revolt provinces r correct. but i dont think rebels should spring up straight out of 649 (Hebei) and 1662 (Shanxi),which r provinces below the great wall. rather, we should let the rebels move into those areas after having captured the border provinces. the secondary revolt provinces should therefore be 647 (Liaoning), 1559 (Xining), 1608 (Qilian Pendi), 1606 (Sichuan).
The problem with that solution is that if the initial revolts capture a province, the rebels will often stick around rather than continue invading. (Sick, but true). The current solution has the effect of the North being overrun before a coherent response can be mounted.
*i do think revoltrisk 40 is too much, especially u have already created immediate revolts. 40% revolt risk each month? reducing them to 5-10% is probably more appropriate.
Please note that it is only the province revolt risk in the primary provinces that is 40 (and only in option a). Modified for low stability, the overall RR, and culture, you'll end up with around 42-46% total RR in only four provinces. That means less than two revolts in the primary invasion provinces per month on average, and since the primary invasion provinces have relatively low taxvalue, that isn't a lot of rebels. (Mongols, really
)
5-10% means that you have defeated the Mongols as soon as you regain stability, since the first army to arrive in the province will assault and retake the province, and there is little or no chance you will have
any problems in securing all the required provinces at the same time.
With regular revolts, however, some of them may capture the garrisons, meaning that it may actually be a challenge to retake the provinces at the same time. You will probably have to station armies on all affected provinces, and be ready for several fights before all are controlled at the same time and stability high.
I am well aware that 40% is extreme, but it is only in four provinces, and we
do want this to be some sort of challenge, yes? A real price to pay for pacifying the Mongols once and for all.
Originally posted by Sheridan
Just so you know, a 40 revolt risk is rather extreme; I only know of a few occasions in the game (specifically the Dutch revolts and, when I get through with it, the American revolution) that employ numbers above 25.
I know. See my response to Sun_Zi_36 above
It
is one of the things that makes the choice of a) or b) interesting
a) Lower revolt risk overall for a shorter period of time but very high revolt risk in Northern China
b) Higher overall revolt risk for a longer period of time with substantially lower revolt risk in Northern China
My choice would depend on whether I believed I could win quickly - keeping in mind that a great deal of stability (=time, unless the dastardly player has kept a large number of nations as vassals just to prepare for this) needs to be regained apart from controlling the affected provinces.
