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Arcvalons

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I believe the current map of Tamriel is based on the one from Arena, but that map is a bit outdated in it's shape and geography compared to more recent maps.



1. This is the map of Tamriel from the mod:


2. And the map the mod's is based on:





3. But here is a more recent map from the Elder Scrolls Anthology that is consistent with the geography of the games and is also more detailed in coastlines, rivers, etc.



4. And this is the map I think the mod should use (made by LadyN), which is based in the anthology one but adds more information consistent with all the more recent games:



I thus believe Tamriel should be updated accordingly in the mod.
 
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Zsrai

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The current map is fine. It's close enough it's not worth a whole redraw, and all of the effort that requires, just to shift the shape of High Rock marginally.
 

Arcvalons

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The current map is fine. It's close enough it's not worth a whole redraw, and all of the effort that requires, just to shift the shape of High Rock marginally.
I agree it shouldn't be priority, just wanted to let the Devs know about the issue with the map, as eventually updating it would help make it feel more authentic, even if it's a long time from now.
 

thevmag

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Not really an issue at all.

Compare 5 different maps of the world. Or just compare 5 different maps of North America. They'll all be different in different ways, warping different directions or including/excluding different things, because no map can be 100% truthfully accurate.

All maps have compromises, deformations, and gaping holes, because they all exist to express different information. It's not that Arena's map or Anthology's map or Elder King's map are any more right or wrong from the other, it's that they're displaying different information in different ways.

If you merely consider them to be different projections, or that the maps themselves came from different mapmakers, then the discrepancies are in-universe realities instead of out-of-universe mistakes.
 

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I don't have a good eye for detail, so I don't see much different between the two. It's not a bad idea for a sub-mod though, especially if you can spot the differences and get assistance with modifying map-related stuff. If it requires you to re-draw the entire map, that might be more work than is necessary. I don't know much about editing map-related files, so I'm not sure if minor changes can be made to create a sub-mod altered map.
 

Pinpinolo

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While I'm not sure about a total map makeover I do think that at the very least the province layout in the Iliac Bay should be changed, because as it stands it does not resemble the map used in Daggerfall and it's anthology version;
 

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Stars_and_Bars

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While I'm not sure about a total map makeover I do think that at the very least the province layout in the Iliac Bay should be changed, because as it stands it does not resemble the map used in Daggerfall and it's anthology version;
That's all well and good, but that map implies the wrothgarians to be totally impassable, which would be nice to see, but if you actually want to change the shape of high rock, you'd have to give some sort of out outline somehow. Plus the daggerfall map implies that high rock has a less pointy shape to it and is farther from hammerfell. I like parts of it's current shape, but I'd like to see provinces redesigned to make the wrothgarians more formidable.
 

Arcvalons

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I've been looking into this more, and came to the conclusion the map the mod's is based on (this one) not only has wrong names but also has cities and locations in totally different locations from where they should be according the most recent games, such as for example, Windhelm. This map, made by lore buff LadyN, took notice of this and fixed all that, and thus I think the map should eventually be updated with it as base:



She even made a post explaining how she made the map and explaining why it's the most accurate. It's an interesting read:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/behind-complete-16939572
 

Stars_and_Bars

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I've been looking into this more, and came to the conclusion the map the mod's is based on (this one) not only has wrong names but also has cities and locations in totally different locations from where they should be according the most recent games, such as for example, Windhelm. This map, made by lore buff LadyN, took notice of this and fixed all that, and thus I think the map should eventually be updated with it as base:



She even made a post explaining how she made the map and explaining why it's the most accurate. It's an interesting read:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/behind-complete-16939572
I've read her explanation. Too much of her map is based off ESO. Why would you want garbage as your source material?

For one thing, They had to make solstheim twice as big for it to be plausible that dunmers would actually want to settle there.

I also simply can't stand how that map makes high rock look. Utterly disgusting. Also they can't seem to decide where exactly the Wrothgarian mountains are. She also seems to think that Orsinium was built at 4 separate locations, when it's only been 2 locaitons.

She also makes blackmarsh huge. (Probably due to ESO map)
 
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Zsrai

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She also makes blackmarsh huge. (Probably due to ESO map)
That's because the Argonians control southern Morrowind in the 4th Era actually. Everything else you said I agree with, more or less, though. Especially the hideousness of High Rock.
 

Arcvalons

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I've read her explanation. Too much of her map is based off ESO. Why would you want garbage as your source material?

For one thing, They had to make solstheim twice as big for it to be plausible that dunmers would actually want to settle there.

I also simply can't stand how that map makes high rock look. Utterly disgusting. Also they can't seem to decide where exactly the Wrothgarian mountains are. She also seems to think that Orsinium was built at 4 separate locations, when it's only been 2 locaitons.

She also makes blackmarsh huge. (Probably due to ESO map)
What do you mean High Rock looks ugly?

She says ESO is only used for general coastline shapes and rivers:

ESO provided me with a lot of names and waterways, as well as a fair bit of coastal detail... but wasn't really utilized directly due to how much editing had to happen to match things up.
Also ESO is not a bad game, it actually has some of the best lore. They actually have Nords using their traditional Nordic pantheon, for one.
 

DeathLawlie

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Except that aesthetically speaking there is some debatable choice in those newer maps, map modding is a very consuming work. It would also probably need to rework history files which is also very times consuming.
In my opinion, it's way more important that the team put their time on new mechanics, event, bookmarks (like in the third and four era) and other things like that than a new map who would not satisfies everyone.
 

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What do you mean High Rock looks ugly?

She says ESO is only used for general coastline shapes and rivers:

Also ESO is not a bad game, it actually has some of the best lore. They actually have Nords using their traditional Nordic pantheon, for one.
Yeah, and I don't like how the general coastline in ESO looks, it has a general global warming effect look that you tend to see in earth maps about what if the water level was raised X feet due to global warming. It's disgusting.

ESO is a decent MMORPG, but It's not really an elder scrolls game. It's just an MMORPG with elder scrolls themed quests, skins, attire etc.
 

Zsrai

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What do you mean High Rock looks ugly?
The shape of the province is ugly, and looks a bit silly.

Also ESO is not a bad game, it actually has some of the best lore. They actually have Nords using their traditional Nordic pantheon, for one.
It doesn't have the best lore, since most of it is just made up crap for the game. It actually kills the established lore to make the universe fit in an MMO. Also why would the Nords be using their traditional pantheon at this point? They've been converted to the 8 Divines millennia ago at this point.

In my opinion, it's way more important that the team put their time on new mechanics, event, bookmarks (like in the third and four era) and other things like that than a new map who would not satisfies everyone.
Definitely this. The map edits take a long, long time and these changes just... slightly modify the shape of High Rock? For what gain?
 

Unuson

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I've been looking into this more, and came to the conclusion the map the mod's is based on (this one) not only has wrong names but also has cities and locations in totally different locations from where they should be according the most recent games, such as for example, Windhelm. This map, made by lore buff LadyN, took notice of this and fixed all that, and thus I think the map should eventually be updated with it as base:



She even made a post explaining how she made the map and explaining why it's the most accurate. It's an interesting read:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/behind-complete-16939572
The southern border of Morrowind doesn't look right at all, not only does southern Morrowind look smaller, but Narsis looks too close to the border and Mournhold shouldn't be that close to the center of southern Morrowind.

Edit: I missed the post about the ESO map, so the black marsh and morrowind borders should probably be that way. However, I'm not too sure about the placement of Narsis and Mournhold, unless they've physically moved the cities according to all other maps besides this ESO one.
 

Wandering Sentinel

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In fairness whatever changes your saying need to be done, I can't even tell the difference on these maps. If anything, I'd say leave the map as it is unless the devs want to adjust provinces to make it easier to split land between vassals as it was in the various Elder Scrolls games (ie, Skyrim more accurately split between the nine holds, Cyrodiil more easily split between defined territory centered around the various Counts from Oblivion, etc) since this would make anyone it easier for people trying to recreate the Empire to do things and allow more convenient division of land between great dukes for others.
 

Zsrai

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The only real map topographical/geological map change that I can see the OP fighting for is the shape of High Rock and... I honestly don't care? There doesn't seem to be much of a reason for that other than they like different maps than the devs originally used. It sure doesn't seem worth the dev time to work on redoing the map just to slightly alter the shape of High Rock, especially to one that is so hideous and based on a game that guts the lore to fit an MMO structure.
 

Ezumiyr

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I think I'll never understand the "looks ugly" argument about High Rock here. You're jsut used to anothere representation, that's all. Nothing is objectively ugly about High Rock's shape here. It's just a Scandinavia-like peninsula. Hew's Bane is a lot worse than this. And what should we say about those convenient mono-ethnic (mono-mer?) isles?


You have all right to decide on which basis you build your own map but this argument and the "ESO is a bad game" one just make you look like angry nerds. Just say you prefer to keep the same map and you didn't like ESO personally.
 

Wandering Sentinel

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Actually I can see the difference now. The map they want to use seems to make Great Bay larger and maybe widen Iliac Bay, reducing the amount of space in High Rock, so everything between the two bays would be more crowded together. Not sure I actually like that from a gameplay perspective now that I think about it (I hate clusters of small provinces in these games)