I think puppet states should still get partisans. Its just that the Puppet state has to deal with them.
Also the TC should be still handled by the master state as they are providing most of it anyways.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
- Status
I think puppet states should still get partisans. Its just that the Puppet state has to deal with them.
Also the TC should be still handled by the master state as they are providing most of it anyways.
Let me guess...puppet will get partisans, TC and resource malus if a puppet is released on territories which other country consider to be their national provinces?
I doubt it.
Oooh that's just great, the AI releases these nonsense countries anyway. Now where did I put my list of HoI2 modders I can call in the case of emergency...
Well, first of all, the Reichskommissariats weren't a part of the military administration, but NSDAP civilian administration. Only Serbia, North France, Belgium and a part of Greece were under German military administration, and their status differed considerably from the Reichskommissariats.
Yes. This applies to Slovakia, Manchuko, Croatia, etc. Definitely not to Reichskommissariat Ostland. If we use your logic, maybe all British African colonies should be presented as puppet states? Perhaps the American Pacific islands as well? Or how about the Princely States of India? They had much more autonomy than any of my examples. I demand to see a puppet Greenland in the game!
It's ridiculous.
No, the game already makes a distinction between the two. Controlled provinces = military administration.
Yes, I agree. What's your point? Norway was to remain under permanent German administration. That's why the Reichskommissariat was set up. There were a number of Norwegians who actually wanted total integration to take place (Pan-Germanicism, see for example Jonas Lie).
I hope I'm not being rude, but I really want to emphasize how bad idea this is. For those who love historical flavor, this decision will make the game much less appealing.
I have an idea:
Consider the occupation of the east as an incarnation of the Reichskommissariats. In HoI-terms German non core areas.
Then it is the players/AI's choice to increase the power of the Reichskommissariats, giving them slack reins, meaning they turn into a puppet instead.
Consider the occupation of the east as an incarnation of the Reichskommissariats. In HoI-terms German non core areas.
Then it is the players/AI's choice to increase the power of the Reichskommissariats, giving them slack reins, meaning they turn into a puppet instead.
Yes we have several options here that some of the posters above choose to ignore because they preferred to openly, rudely and blindly bash a game that is not out yet instead of having a real and sound discussion.
So here are two proposals:
1- We can allow players to release these RK as puppets with cores over their territories to simulate an hypothesis where Germany would decide to give these territories some sort of autonomy after the war. We can give them dissent so they will still have to deal with partisans. This is the solution applied ATM.
2- Or we can also choose not to give these RK cores over their territories but only claims to simulate military occupation. That way they will constantly have to deal with partisans and the German player will have to keep troops there as revolts can occur at any moment.
The idea is that is should be up to players to choose whether to follow historical military occupation route (and therefore not releasing these as puppets) or choose to give these administrative entities more autonomy.
Please give me your feedback about these proposed solutions. Rude and irrelevant arguments will be ignored.
I think that there could be an event (or a decision) dealing with Reichskommissariats. You could either give them more autonomy and get some dissent yourself (since you are partially relinquishing control over territories which you have been fighting for) or give them less autonomy, but at the cost of having to control them more directly military-wise. Slider changes could follow in both cases. Lastly, there is the option of not releasing them as puppets at all and creating uber-Reich, but then you would have to deal with partisans yourself and pay the cost in TC. It would be nice if there was an option to "swallow" them, too (at a cost, of course).
I'm fine with both propasals as long as the player isn't forced to release them (and the devs already said the player isn't 
).
But gamplaywise I think solution no. 1 is better because no.2 sounds exactly like a German occupation without releasing the Reichskommissariate but with less control of the territory, so maybe the question 'release them or keep all for myself?' would become a bit pointless. Adding an event that adds cores after some years could make no.2 a bit more reasonable though, but I'd still prefer no.1.
I just hope the AI won't release the Reichskommissariate everytime it wins in the East and it has the possibility to keep all territory just like the Soviets in Vanilla-HoI2 can decide to continue their fight against the Axis minors after the switching sides events.
Is the creation of the Reichskommissariate handled by events/decisions, i.e. easy to mod out if we don't like it?
).But gamplaywise I think solution no. 1 is better because no.2 sounds exactly like a German occupation without releasing the Reichskommissariate but with less control of the territory, so maybe the question 'release them or keep all for myself?' would become a bit pointless. Adding an event that adds cores after some years could make no.2 a bit more reasonable though, but I'd still prefer no.1.
I just hope the AI won't release the Reichskommissariate everytime it wins in the East and it has the possibility to keep all territory just like the Soviets in Vanilla-HoI2 can decide to continue their fight against the Axis minors after the switching sides events.
Is the creation of the Reichskommissariate handled by events/decisions, i.e. easy to mod out if we don't like it?
Could we get an event, with a choice between the two versions you stated above, FT?
Does this mean the AI does it the same way and therefore just deleting them from 'revolts.txt' will prevent the AI from ever releasing them?
You just have to remove the country tag from the "liberate" list in the AI file. Just a matter of 10 seconds really. It's all moddable.
I think they should not get cores over their territories. The people who defined occupation policy in the east were committed to Hitler's most extreme ideas, i.e. the locals would get no political rights whatsoever and the organs of the Nazi state (SS, NSDAP civilian administration, Wehrmacht) would have a free reign to exploit the lands as they wished. Under those ideas (defined in the 1941-43 timeframe historically) the RKs in Russia were designed to be different from the RKs in Norway or the Netherland - Norwegians and Dutch people were allowed to have some local autonomy, and were expected to more or less run their own affairs once the war was over. The RKs in the east though were not to have any such autonomy, they were to be run like colonies of the Reich, and the NSDAP and SS were planning to staff all organs of those RKs with Germans, down to the lowest administrative level.
Under such a scenario the RK should have the same penalties concerning IC and resources as Germany would have under non-core ownership conditions. Also the same basis revolt risk. The RK could adopt policies (read: choose decisions, events) which modify those penalties a little, but they should still simulate the situation of a hostile military occupation. The RK could be allowed to recruit some militia divisions (security forces recruited from Cossacks, Muslims and other minorities) but would not be allowed to field any military units beyond that.
If you want to simulate alternate history following a German victory, then there could be event chains simulating the interaction between the Reich and the RKs... in the immediate postwar years, the Reich would define occupational policy for the RKs as stated above and the RK could only make minor decisions about it. The Reich could f.ex. decide how much investment there should be in roads and industry, and the RK would simply execute that policy. Or the Reich would set some goals for production numbers of coal, iron, grain and such, and the RK would have some events dealing with how to achieve those numbers.
After some years events could let the Reich decide whether its policy in the east should be revised. The decision could be triggered - for example, if partisans seize 10% of the provinces of RK Ukraine, there would be an event "Unrest in the Reichskommissariat" and the German player could choose to (a) replace the Kommissar with someone more lenient (b) replace him with someone less lenient or (c) give the RK more autonomy to deal with those issues. Decision (c) could lead to events which transform the RK into more of an autonomous entity. The RK could co-opt Ukrainian leaders but this would come at the cost of lowering export quotas. (The RK would keep more of its resources for itself, and try to improve living conditions.) This could then lead to the RK eventually gaining cores on its territory and thereby an end to partisan activity. But it would be a VERY crass step away from what the Nazis had planned, so it should not be available as a decision rightaway.
Maybe eventually the RKs could have events that change them into "proper" collaborationist nations? I.e.
Reichskommissariat Ukraine --> Ukraine
RK Moskowien --> Russia
RK Ostland --> Estland, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus
RK Kaukasus --> puppet nations like Georgia, Armenia, Chechnya, Dagestan, a Don Cossack nation and so forth.
That could be the end point of a transformation, from ruthless Hitlerite exploitation towards a more lenient and peaceful "New Order" that gives the non-German nations a place as well. Some 10-15 years after the Endsieg maybe, after Hitler is dead and his successors have realized his plans were unworkable.
Germany fought the war in order to achieve complete domination of Russia, that's what Hitler and Goebbels had told people what the war was all about, all those years. You shouldn't be allowed to just throw this away at the click of an event choice after the Endsieg. The rank and file of the Nazi party was promised luxurious jobs in the east, as overseers of the Reich's new colonial empire, with women and vodka for every German willing to take up the task. You can't just suddenly tell them, "Oh about those administration jobs in the east... You know, we struck a deal with the Ivans to let them rule themselves, so there won't be any jobs for you, sorry about that! Didn't you watch the newsreel yesterday?"
That's not to say some years down the road the Reich will really strike a deal with the Ivans, to let them rule themselves more or less, but right after the war such a course of action should be totally out of the question. The common people in Germany might not care, but the rank and file of the NSDAP were promised fiefs and spoils and you can't just take that away.
Last edited:
its because reichskom things operate in their own little world with their own little militia even if they are offically part of the reich
where as the SSRs and the states collectively pooled their resources as tho they were 1 nation (which...they were...)
where as the SSRs and the states collectively pooled their resources as tho they were 1 nation (which...they were...)
Are you refering to real history or something else?
Because in real history, the Reichskommissariate did not have their own security forces. They had a civilian police (as in: ordinary cops) recruited from collaborators, and relied on SS and Wehrmacht forces to keep partisans in line.
I said the F-word in literally two posts. Apparently that isn't tolerated. Oh well.
- Status