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The Literacy Hole

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Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
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Hate to comment on myself, but since nobody else does... ;)

Mauricio said:
That's what I was thinking about yesterday: Suppress any industrial development in the first couple years and starve the bureaucracy. So farmers and laborers Should only promote to artisans or clergy.
Going to try that in another Russia game later today.
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I just did two test runs with Russia. NFs in both to clergy in Moscow, Kursk and (after ideology) Kazan. Education on 100%. Russia starts with 1% clergy.

First run: As I usually start, taxes high on middle class, as close to zero as possible on poor and rich. Immediately seed a handful of factories in the most populous provinces to get the capitalists going. Result in January 1946: Overally clergy 1.21%. Moscow 1.7, Kursk 1.6, Kazan 1.2. GP rank #2.

Second run: No taxes on poor, 100% on middle and rich. No factory seeding. Result in January 1946: Overally clergy 1.28%. Moscow 1.8, Kursk 1.9, Kazan 1.5. GP rank #5.

Doesn't look like much, but I think 28% vs 21% increase over ten years makes quite a difference. As industry doesn't seem to serve any practipal purpose in the first decades, it should be a viable starting option for countries that don't have to worry about GP status (either because they're safely in like Russia, or because it's out of reach anyway).
 
Could this be related to the Aristocrat bug (that is the promotion to clerics checks how many aristocrats are present, instead of clerics)?
 
Mauricio said:
I just did two test runs with Russia. NFs in both to clergy in Moscow, Kursk and (after ideology) Kazan. Education on 100%. Russia starts with 1% clergy.

First run: As I usually start, taxes high on middle class, as close to zero as possible on poor and rich. Immediately seed a handful of factories in the most populous provinces to get the capitalists going. Result in January 1946: Overally clergy 1.21%. Moscow 1.7, Kursk 1.6, Kazan 1.2. GP rank #2.

Second run: No taxes on poor, 100% on middle and rich. No factory seeding. Result in January 1946: Overally clergy 1.28%. Moscow 1.8, Kursk 1.9, Kazan 1.5. GP rank #5.

Doesn't look like much, but I think 28% vs 21% increase over ten years makes quite a difference. As industry doesn't seem to serve any practipal purpose in the first decades, it should be a viable starting option for countries that don't have to worry about GP status (either because they're safely in like Russia, or because it's out of reach anyway).
Click to expand...

Interesting stuff. Would be nice to what effect seeding factories but keeping high taxes on the upper classes had. It might offer a middle way between boosting literacy and industrialising.

How many states does Russia start off with? It's going to be hard to raise the overall number of clergy too much if there aren't enough NFs to go round.
 
I think if you start as a backwards hole, if you prioritize the first 2 levels of philosophy (+ 50% research each), social thought to Biologism (+ 90% education efficiency with Darwinism invention) and ideological thought (with all its +plurality inventions), you should be able to get yourself to a point where your research and literacy is booming along. Getting those techs better than tripled my research as the US, and would probably be even more noticeable for the OE.

I think I'll need to do an OE AAR soon if I have time...hmmm...
 
200% of a literacy gain rate of 3*10^-2 per month is an insignificant increase.

TRUST ME, play OE and you will see that the education techs DO NOTHING because THERE IS A LACK OF CLERGY. CLERGY WON'T PROMOTE like it did in 1.1

So, effectively places with low literacy will stay low literacy for pretty much the entire game.

As Russia I tried all manners of things, including attempts at social manipulation, but I only managed to raise clergy (to 11%, but in the rest of my empire clergy averaged at around ~1,5%) in my colonies (Alaska).

As a comparison: when I was playing as Prussia (a literate nation), I managed to raise clergy make-up of the populace to 4% in 10 years.

There is some obvious bogus going on here, but I can't seem 2 find what...
 
Iwin: have you corrected the aristocrat bug I mentioned? If not, how many aristocrats do you have in the OE game?
 
I checked the aristocrats: around 240k as Russia in 1880. Not too unusual.

But what you mean about aristocrat bug? I have noticed that clergy like to promote to aristocrats, but not in any serious numbers

EDIT: Hmm.. I don't know. But both my aristocrat and clergy numbers are pretty low, so it shouldn't matter... should it?
 
Dewirix said:
How many states does Russia start off with? It's going to be hard to raise the overall number of clergy too much if there aren't enough NFs to go round.
Click to expand...

Russia starts with 57 states, many of which have only a few thousand people though. And in many of these tiny states, there are already 4-7% clergy after ten years, without NF of course.

I'm applying this strategy in a real game right now. It's 1846, I'm GP #3 and doing very well without a single factory or capitalist so far. So I'll try to hold off industrialization for at least another decade. Will be really interesting to see what happens to the world economy when a huge demander of industrial goods turns into a huge supplier overnight.
 
If you get 4% aristocrats in a province, the people will stop promoting to clerics there.
Since you're likely to tax the higher classes little (to encourage capitalists), and there will be lots of RGO workers, aristocrats should be plentiful.
 
Just to be safe, I went Rambo on the files and made a factor "-20" clergy promotion to aristocrats if "education_spending = 0.99". I'l try and play the OE for 10 years and see if anything changes.

I am thinking about giving farmers a "factor 5" promotion to clergy in the files, but I believe it would be wrong. There is probably some file where paradox mistyped and fucked up (maybe divide instead of multiply, I duno).

EDIT:
Sortulv said:
If you get 4% aristocrats in a province, the people will stop promoting to clerics there.
Since you're likely to tax the higher classes little (to encourage capitalists), and there will be lots of RGO workers, aristocrats should be plentiful.
Click to expand...

4%? No, I think you are referring 2 the officer thing. If there are more than 4% officers clergy won't promote.

It is a bug I believe.
 
Mauricio said:
I'm applying this strategy in a real game right now. It's 1846, I'm GP #3 and doing very well without a single factory or capitalist so far. So I'll try to hold off industrialization for at least another decade. Will be really interesting to see what happens to the world economy when a huge demander of industrial goods turns into a huge supplier overnight.
Click to expand...
Boom! ;)
 
Iwin123 said:
4%? No, I think you are referring 2 the officer thing. If there are more than 4% officers clergy won't promote.

It is a bug I believe.
Click to expand...

Ahh, sorry - seems I misready the bugreport...:eek:o
So, look for lots of officers then - and pretend I was speaking about officers all along...
 
Heh, I don't know what happened. I just put "-20" on aristocrat promotion ratio if education spending is 100%, and now I am getting a steady increase of clergy as the Ottoman Empire, 100-140 per month. Before, I was getting a DECREASE of 100-140 per month!

I REALLY, have no idea what is going on. But you were right I believe?
 
Iwin123 said:
Heh, I don't know what happened. I just put "-20" on aristocrat promotion ratio if education spending is 100%, and now I am getting a steady increase of clergy as the Ottoman Empire, 100-140 per month. Before, I was getting a DECREASE of 100-140 per month!

I REALLY, have no idea what is going on. But you were right I believe?
Click to expand...

If you are talking about promotion from clerics, that sounds like a bug - since there isn't supposed to be ANY cleric to aristocrat promotion when the edu slider is a 100%.
If you are talking about aristocrat promotion in general, it sounds like it has more to do with limiting the paths a pop can take - so that promoting to clerics becomes the only path?
 
no, they would still promote. check the files.

Anyway, I got to only 1,5% clergy by 1857.

This is certainly an improvement, but not very impressive.

I also noticed if I rose military spending, then very few people would promote to clergy.. If not demoting to officers!
 
Was refering to this line from the 1.2 readme:
- Clergy will not promote to artistocrats if you fully fund clergy.
 
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