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Kasakka said:
But as you said yourself, the killings of right wingers were "as usual crimes" - murders of single persons, done by small semi-independently acting croups. When the republicans controlled a village, there could've been a couple of robberies, a couple of murders (the richest person, the priest if he wasn't personally popular, a member of the nobility, the local police perhaps) done by local radicals or just ordinary criminals who used the situation to their advantage.[/quotee]

You don't undertand me. When the CNT members burn a church, torture and slain the priests, rape the nuns, etc... Nobody in the goverment does nothing in order to stop this. For example.

Kasakka said:
But when the nationalists came, they made lists of "dangerous persons" with the help of the local right wingers, the soldiers acting as coherent units led by their officers rounded up leftist party members, local labour unionists, family members of republican soldiers... then made them dig a grave, lined them up on the edge and gunned down the whole lot.

There is a thin line between execution and murder, systematical slaughter and "daggers in the dark". Not saying that killing innocent people was ever right, I daresay the nationalist side far exceeded the republicans when it comes to the volume of crimes of war.

This happened in both sides. There is the Slaugther of the Modelo prision of Madrid: All political prisioners (Yes, political, just like in a dictatorial regime) were slain only because they were "enemy of the revolution" or "fascist simpatizer" (Democrat Right Wing too). A methodical and mass assassination. There is too the "Paracuellos Massacre", an event like the famous Katyn Massacre, but with nationalits civilians instead polish officials.

Both "Republicans" and "Nationals" (Wrong names) comitted crimes of war.
 
While interesting, this is kind of getting off topic to the AAR gentlemen...
 
Amric said:
While interesting, this is kind of getting off topic to the AAR gentlemen...

True.
 
Amric said:
While interesting, this is kind of getting off topic to the AAR gentlemen...

I may have unleashed something with this AAR, and some of the things said are sad in where some's family have been killed and on...

... as for the discussions going back and forth, they are very interesting and I think I'm learning new stuff about the SCW that is hard to find in books and internet sources. As for an update, I plan on having one very soon.

Feel free if you have knowledge of the civil war and things that went on afterwards that could help me write in the future, for it looks like some have far more knowledge of the war and beyound than I do.
 
Understood...however I just wanted to keep things from getting out of hand...discussions of this type have a nasty habit of spiraling out of control....
 
The Bastion of Christ

Chapter II

Central Madrid, July 13, 1936.

Carlos Ruiz and a large crowd of Spanish people crowded a center street of Madrid, placed in the street was a large wooden plateform with ropes. Modern day hanging posts were constructed by Republican forces and several men stood upon the plateforms and were in the eye sights of the many hundreds possibly thousands of comrades looking at them. At the left of the stand stood a sad and sick Father Santiago clutching his cross of the Virgin Mary and the Holy Bible in his white and red turncoat of the Catholic faith looked at a collegue of his standing on the pedastol of death.

The Republican soldiers lined the streets and several on the wooden pedastols and several more on horseback.

"Look now at the traitors of the Republic of Spain, caught by the Brigada Blinda early this morning. Brought here by the 1st Royal Calvary of the Spanish Army of Madrid, before I commence the ruling of martial law against you for treason, and there-by condemned to death by hanging; I ask by the Grace of God if you and your comrades have any last sayings that you say them now or forever hold your peace," said Father Santiago with a Republican officer on horseback directly beside him.

"Father Santiago? I ask you as a collegue of the Catholic Faith and as a fellow priest, how much money did they pay you to turn on your own people like this?" the priest fell silent and lifted his head for a soldier to place a bag over his head and stepped up on his box and the rope was fastened around his neck and then left as the soldier continued forward to the next.

"Miran la gente que hemos decidido a proctect nosotros. Ellos han hecho la parte de enfrente completa de lo que quisimos. No confíe en la República, no confíe en los ojos blancos de estos hombres. Mirada encima a Dios como su único salvador, pídalo la paz y el mando y usted lo encontrará. No con esta gente que dicen que ellos tienen nuestros corazones, pero no hacen. ¡No confíe en la República! Confianza en Dios y no estos hombres. ¡Y déjeme ir ahora al cielo!"

(Translation - I did my best for any fluent Spanairds, hopefully I didn't slaughter it.)

-Look at the people that we have elected to proctect us. They have done the complete opposite of what we wanted. Do not trust the Republic, do not trust the white eyes of these men. Look above to God as your only savior, ask him for peace and leadership and you will find it. Not with these people who say they have our hearts, but don't. Don't trust the Republic! Trust in God and not these men. And let me go now to heaven!-

The soldier proceded to wrap a bag around the common man's head and tightened the rope and went on to the third and final. The last, no older than 19 stood defiantley in the face of oppression and said nothing. The soldier placed the bag and rope on his head and stepped back.

"I hereby denounce you all. May God have a quick and unpainful death to all, for perhaps he still thinks about you men," Father Santiago looked at the officer on horseback who smiled and rose his hand.

The officer looked at his soldiers ready to release the box holes and let the men fall to their inevitable deaths. He lowered his hand and gloves and the noise of the three men falling caused much pity and sadness in the crowd, many of whom looked away as the men fell to their deaths. The bodies swayed from side to side in the wind with no movements, therefor no signs of life and the officer signaled for the soldiers to leave the bodies strung up. The officer looked down from his saddle at Father Santiago, "You did well my good father."

The pause in the crowd was one of the few moments of silence within the city of Madrid for the past few weeks.

The officer strode forward on his stallion and stopped in front of the hung men and turned about to face the crowds, "Look now at the fate of men and even women who dare oppose the Republican Government of Presidente Manuel Azaña Díaz. Think twice before you dare to challenge the laws and authority of your country. Here in Madrid they care only for you, but it is you who dare not care for them. Therefor co-existance is very hard, I say to you in the crowd to come to your senses and not end up like these gentlemen. Embrace and you shall have the Spain of old, we shall all have the Spain of our dreams or so help me God."

The officer rode off with his soldiers numbering about 70 strong leaving the crowd to look at the sight still infront of them. Father Santiago rushed to the dead and shouted out to the crowds, "¡Venga me ayudan a deprimir a estos hombres!" he shouted to the people (Come help me get these men down!). The front crowds rushed forward and helped the aging priest cut the dead from their tombs in the air and properly buried the men with honor.

Carlos Ruiz rushed to Father Santiago and began to speak with him while hundreds of people lined the streets of Madrid in disbelief that they had just witnessed a hanging of three men, one a Catholic priest.

"Dear Father, I know this is a bad time to ask but do you have my transport books to leave this God for-shaken city?"

"Son, I do what I have to. I've known your father since my childhood and you since a young-boy. I have what you want but I can't give it to you in the public, I can't be seen helping certain people over the greater populace. I shall be over to your home later with the books. May God be with you Carlos."

"And may God be with you. I would like them within the next day so I can finally leave this city."

"Remember what I taught you when you were released from prison near eight months ago. Steal not for yourself and help the greater good. If one is in more need than yourself, don't hesitate to help him or her. Without me to watch over you I wish you well with your wife and daughter wherever life and God takes you. God Bless Spain."

Carlos parted from the Father and began to trek through the crowds and headed towards his home, while in the rear of the crowds Lt. Valliez could see Carlos and began to walk after him without Carlos knowing. The lieutantent and an assistant pushed through the crowds and slowly kept watch over their target.

"Does he have any idea?"

"I don't know coporal, I don't know."

Carlos walked into an alley way where the two police men stopped and looked in, a young boy came out to Mr. Ruiz and began to cry.

"Where is you mother or father?"

"Over there," pointed the tearful boy perhaps only six years-old. Carlos looked and saw two dead bodies.

He clutched the child and placed him under his care and continued down the alley back out into a main causeway.

"Don't cry, I'll take care of you. Hungary?"

"Yes."

"Here's what I have, not much but bread. Enjoy."

"What about you?"

The ragged dressed Carlos was a little shocked, "I'm fine child."

"Miguel."

"I'm fine Miguel, I will help you for now. Do you have any other family here?"

"Not in Madrid. My Grandmother lives outside of the city in the hills."

"God have mercy on me," Carlos said under his breathe. "Don't worry dear boy, I shall not leave you here in this city."
 
While the Spanish Civil War had acts on both sides that were not nice, remember that this is an AAR based on a game on this period of history. Discussions of who did what and to who are better in a different forum than this one. Please center the discussion to the game and the actions of the people presented in this game by the writer and leave discussions of atrocities int he real war out of the discussion.

Stroph,
AAR Moderator.
 
Sorry for going off topic. Just got kinda "carried away" with the discussion. Good AAR anyways, will follow! :)